Non-Catholics: Why do you WANT to receive the Eucharist?

[dianaiad]

Just an FYI…Mormons, or otherwise known as LDS ARE NOT Christians…they do not use the proper Trinitarian Formula when they Baptize…ergo, they are not Christians in the most technical sense of the word

Actually, we DO use the ‘proper trinitarian formula.’ It is simply that the Catholics have declared that the formula doesn’t matter.

And they are quite correct. Though we do use the ‘proper trinitarian formula,’ in that we baptise in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, we do not have the same understanding of the nature of the Trinity that Catholics do. Mind you, it’s closer to their’s than to the modalists, and Catholics don’t seem to have a problem with modalist baptisms being valid.

Personally, I think it’s a quid pro quo sort of thing. We do not recognize Catholic (or anybody else’s, for that matter) baptisms as being valid, so…

On the other hand, even though we do not recognize their baptisms as being valid, we do not try to kick them out of the Christian community.

Ah, well.

 

[Apryl]

Several years ago, our the bishop, William Swing of California went on a pilgrimage with two other bishops from San Francisco, the RC archbishop, and the Greek Orthodox bishop. They went to Canterbury, Rome and Istanbul. They could not, by their own rules or by the rules of the host church all take communion together.

It is interesting to note that the RC archbishop of San Francisco was William Levada, now in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the Roman church.

I find it quite strange that there are such divides in churches. The Episcopal Church had closed communion until around 1960. I don’t know if the Missouri Synod Lutherans still do.

I have taken communion in a Roman Catholic church one time, with the full knowledge of the priest. Our Episcopal church had a ski retreat and the cabin was next to a RC church. The old priest was a bit overwhelmed to find more young Episcopalians than anyone else in his church, but we showed ourselves very respectful (as we were naturally) and he recognized that we understood what we were doing. I have also made confession in a Catholic church, again with full knowledge of the priest. He knew I knew what the sacrament is about.

I also note that according to reports, Brother Roger, of Taize, a Protestant, was first to receive communion from the hands of Cardinal Ratzinger at the funeral of John-Paul II. When Brother Roger himself died later that same year, his funeral was a mass presided over by Cardinal Walter Kasper and communion was distributed to congregants from all denominations.

As the OP on this thread, I apologize for posting and not returning for 8 days now.

But I have to ask: what makes you NOT Catholic? Why not just come into the fold of the church, and BE Catholic?

You state that you are of some other ilk… what makes you different enough to say, ‘I’m not Catholic’, yet, you come in to the Catholic church and do what is supposed to be exclusvisly for those who are part of this ilk?

And please do understand that while the priest may have been aware, he is still HUMAN, and humans make mistake, often with the best of intentions.

 

[Apryl]

That’s dangerous to apply that thinking to Protestants in general. Does 1 Cor 11 apply to all Protestants when we partake in communion in our Protestant churches, or just when we partake in communion in the Catholic Church? In a Catholic translation, is the word Eucharist actually used?

Let me ask you this:

In the Protestant church, is the communion that you receive (in the Protestant church), the Body and Blood of Christ? OR does it just SYBOLIZE the Body and Blood of Christ?

It is my understanding of Protestants(most of my family is NOT Catholic) that the Lord’s Supper, the Communion Service, all of that, is symbolic of the Body and Blood of Christ.

In fact, there are some churches that teach that Catholics are practicing ‘cannibolism’. There are those who say, 'hee hee… they think that’s actually body and blood"

It is my understand that it is, for Protestants, a REMINDER of the Lord’s Great Sacrifice.

That is one of the major differences in being Catholic and not being Catholic: that we (Catholics) have the Body and Blood of Christ… the Real Presence… I don’t know what else that term means, but for it’s that there is no ‘crackers and juice’ involved, but what we see has been turned into the Body and Blood of Christ.

And don’t think I am not aware that there are MILLIONS of Catholics, some who have received not only Baptism, Reconciliation and Eucharist, but also Confirmation and Marriage, who do not get that part, some by choice.

So, my understanding of what St. Paul is talking about IS only the Catholic communion, as you are not getting the actual Body and Blood of Christ in your Protestant services.

Did you understand that differently?

 

[dianaiad]

Someone inform me: Don’t the LDS re-baptize? I guess they do adult or believer baptism, so if, say, a Baptist became LDS, would the Baptist believer baptism be acceptable by them?

So my question is, why would they claim to be Christian if they don’t accept a valid Christian baptism?

Begging a question, there, y’know.

“Christian” means that one puts Christ at the center of one’s religion. All who do that, and claim to do that, are Christian. That does not mean that they have the authority to perform ordinances and sacraments. I notice that you are Episcopalian, and I know very little about the way things are done in your faith. Please excuse me if the example I’m about to use does not apply. Imagine, if you will, that an Episcopalian preacher/priest is available, duly ordained and doing his/her job, and s/he was about to baptise an infant. Suddenly some stranger bursts into the ceremony (or perhaps it’s not a stranger. Perhaps it’s even a relative…) dips some water from the font, pours it on the head of the child and states the the baby is baptised in the “name of " the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.” Then he disappears. The whole thing happens so fast–it’s such an unbelievable thing to do-- nobody has a chance to react.

Does that baptism 'count?" or would the priest, after calming everybody down, redo it?

Why?

Well, many people believe that there is an authority there; percieved or real, it’s a permission to do something that other people don’t have. The Catholic priest has the authority given by the church to hear confessions and grant absolution. He blesses the wine and the wafers and offers communion. He says Mass. He has permission, given him by the church, to do these things. Episcopalian priests have permission, given them by the church (and by the state, too, come to think of it…) to do things ordinary members of the church don’t have.

This means, generally, that if a priest or preacher marries you, you are married (in the eyes of God, if not the state, and generally by the state, too.) However, if your next door neighbor, the accountant, (but not an ordained minister) says the words, he simply…says the words. They mean nothing.

That does NOT mean that they aren’t Christian. It simply means they don’t have the authority to perform weddings and baptisms. So it is with us: our entire faith is based partly upon the idea that this priesthood authority was lost…nobody has HAD the authority to do this for many centuries, but that it was restored, and we have it.

You don’t.

So of course we do not believe non-LDS baptisms are valid. We don’t believe that you have the authority to perform them. That does NOT mean we believe you are not Christian, because that is an entirely separate issue. Your faith in Christ and His teachings are not made invalid.

As to whether I would take communion anywhere other than at an LDS service? Believing as I do that these are not valid–it would be an incredible statement of disrespect to you and your beliefs for me to do that. It would be telling you that your beliefs and faith don’t count; that they are irrelevent. It would be a mockery.

That’s just wrong.

 

[Apryl]

But I am not sure why you think these people are pretending, or playing at being Catholic. It’s actually a slightly offensive assertion. Non-Catholics who wish to receive in a Catholic Church want to receive the same benefits, whatever those are, that they would get in their own Church.

While it may have been offensive (and I apoligize if it was , as that was not my intent), it is because any one who receives the Eucharist in a Catholic church is doing so under the pretense that they are Catholic.

ONLY a Catholic who has received the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist (and further, has had sacramental confession should there be any mortal sin) is supposed to go to Communion in the Catholic church.

No one is taking attendance, or looking for labels, so it appears that all of those folx in that line are, or believe they are, fulfilling a role they are supposed to be filling: Being Catholic.

 

[Apryl]

You know, if I were to go to my friend’s old United Church for a service, and take the bread and wine at their communion, but then turn around and say, "and by the way, all the rest of you, when you eat this, you are eating the body and blood of Christ, and if you say you are not, you are being disrepectful of me, you’re denying me reception of Christ, and you’re being totally discriminatory’–she would be absolutely horrified. And I wouldn’t blame her. What poor manners it would be to insist that the members of any Church deny their own beliefs while insisting that, in their own church, they accept yours instead. You see, while my friend would be totally all right with my receiving communion in her church if I received believing as she believed

I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about this one: As a Catholic, I do not receive communion in non-Catholic churches, since what they believe is not what I believe!

 

[Apryl]

So, in other words, receiving Holy Communion implies that you share in the beliefs of the people assembled in the Catholic church. Why would it have any meaning for you if you’re not a practicing Catholic?

Precisely!

This is the point I’ve been trying to make (on these boards, and IRL)

 

[Apryl]

I have a missalette right in front of me right now in english and spanish and I see no rules.

Which missallette are you using?

It’s been in all the ones I’ve seen: it says something about “Guidelines for Receving Communion” There is a part on Catholics, Non-Catholic Christians, and those who are not Christian. Look again.

 

[Apryl]

Hi
I just want to add one more opinion. I am a non catholic who is waiting to take rcia classes next september. Often I have gone to mass and been the only one in several rows who has not gotten up and I have almost felt that I was being disrespectful. I have never gone up as I took communion in my own church and did not feel it was my place as a non catholic but for others who do … I certainly would think of it as a nice thing to do if it is within there comfort zone. I will wait until I go through the rcia. Also I think many who go up might be confused and think this is ok with everyone …

OP Here (HI!)

This is a big part of why I started this thread.

I am a Catholic. And I do not agree with people who are not Catholic receiving the sacramant of the Holy Eucharist if they are not Catholic. (or if they are not in a state fo grace, but I am less likely to be aware of that one)

I asked because I really would like to know a nice, genteel way, to say to non-Catholics, ‘you are not to receive communion here’… but is there such a thing?


I also believe with all of my heart that those who are not Catholic, or have not been at Mass in ages (so not to Confession) do not go to Communion as any act of defiance or disrespect or to show any comeuppance. Rather, I believe most who go do so because they believe they are supposed to. They don’t want to be disrespectful, they do want to receive the body and blood (since they really are probably not even aware of the Body and Blood) and it seems the correct thing to do.

Then, you have some one who is 40 years plus, and as long as they can remember, when they visit Grandma, or go to Cousin Dana’s house and go to ‘service’ with them, they go to Communion. Why not?

What is a way that I, as a Catholic, can be RESPECTFUL of my non-Catholic Christian Brothers and Sisters, yet make them aware of the problem of receiving Communion as a Catholic, without making any one feel that I’m standing in line and snatching others out, or pointing fingers, or otherwise downgrading them for doing what, as a poster said, is not hurting Jesus, but is hurting them?

What can be done to inform folx, esp since so few READ what is before them. I don’t think I want to sit through homilies where they are talking about, ‘don’t come to communion’, for non-Catholics, or Catholics not in a state of grace.

But I do want to have some way to spread the message… and get people to HEAR it.

I did not intend a bait and switch thread. I wanted to get some feedback on why people do what they do… and esp from those who are active on this forum, since many who are not Catholic participate and can see the logistics of the sacrament.

 

[Apryl]

Thank you for your answers to my questions. I understand what you are saying about the preparatory prayer. I quess the wording of it made me think it was in a way confessing or a way to get your sins forgiven.

A COMMON misconception.

Just like the Confetitor Prayer (I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters…) is not a real confession.

The SACRAMENT of Confession, with a priest, where you STATE what you are asking for forgiveness for, and where you are given ABSOLUTION, that is the confession that cleanses a person.

Just saying “I’m sorry”… that’s not sacramental confession!

 

[Apryl]

No, we do not wish this on our non-Catholic friends, but if they accept Christ and accept the fact that the Eucharist (Holy Communion in Protestant denominations) is the body and blood of Christ, then who are we to judge their worthiness as fellow servants of God through Christ Jesus?

(I think I’m getting riled up… but I’m going to try to ask what I need to ask and move along)

• If they are Not Catholic… what is preventing them from becomeing Catholic?
• How many times have you had non-Catholics to ask YOU, ‘Can I go to communion?’, and YOUR response is, ‘Oh, sure’?
• Who is judging their worthiness? I don’t dress up in Lamda Lamda Lamda colors and go to their sorority parties and answer the door if I’m not a Tri Lamda… why would any one who is NOT in full communion with the church need to pretend to be?

 

[O.S.Luke]

Who is judging their worthiness? I don’t dress up in Lamda Lamda Lamda colors and go to their sorority parties and answer the door if I’m not a Tri Lamda… why would any one who is NOT in full communion with the church need to pretend to be?

The difference would be this: it is Christ that is being offered at the altar, and I am a Christian. To be a repentant and confessed Christian who believes in the Real Presence of Christ at the Eucharist, and to not receive Christ in the flesh when He is offered is painful to me - regardless of what church I might be standing in.

A sorority analogy seems (at least to me) a very poor analogy when it comes to Christ’s presence and the Eucharist.

It is for this reason, and out of respect to the Catholic faith, why I no longer attend Catholic weddings or funerals if a mass is being celebrated, because I know I am not welcome to receive the Eucharist. I would have no other reason to attend a Catholic Church, unless of course I was invited for some special occasion.

When I attend Anglican and (some) Lutheran Churches, I know as a repentant baptized Christian, I am welcome to receive the Eucharist. In those traditions, the Eucharist is not seen in the context of those gathered being in communion with each other, but that the believers gathered together are in communion with Christ. In this case, the altar/table is not the Anglican’s or the Lutheran’s or the Methodist’s - but it is the Table of the Lord. All of these traditions, including my own, require the confession of sin and reception of pardon before coming to the table.

I know that’s not the Catholic belief, and I am not going to try to change it. But when I come to the Eucharist, regardless of what church I am standing in, I come to receive Christ. If I cannot receive after presenting myself repentant for my sins, the pain is too much to bear.

The question was “Non-Catholics: Why do you WANT to receive the Eucharist.” My answer is simple: because I want to receive Christ in the flesh. To quote John Wesley from his sermon, “The Duty of Constant Communion:”

This is the food of our souls: This gives strength to perform our duty, and leads us on to perfection. If, therefore, we have any regard for the plain command of Christ, if we desire the pardon of our sins, if we wish for strength to believe, to love and obey God, then we should neglect no opportunity of receiving the Lord’s Supper; then we must never turn our backs on the feast which our Lord has prepared for us. We must neglect no occasion which the good providence of God affords us for this purpose. This is the true rule: So often are we to receive as God gives us opportunity. Whoever, therefore, does not receive, but goes from the holy table, when all things are prepared, either does not understand his duty, or does not care for the dying command of his Saviour, the forgiveness of his sins, the strengthening of his soul, and the refreshing it with the hope of glory.

I know what the Catholic Church says and believes. We were asked (indeed, invited) why as non-Catholics we would want to receive the Eucharist. This is my answer.

Pax vobiscum,

O+

 

[O.S.Luke]

I did not intend a bait and switch thread. I wanted to get some feedback on why people do what they do.

You may not have intended it. But given the last few posts you posted, it is becoming hard not to see it this way. Otherwise, why would you be riled up?

 

[crowtherkidsmom]

Let me ask you this:

In the Protestant church, is the communion that you receive (in the Protestant church), the Body and Blood of Christ? OR does it just SYBOLIZE the Body and Blood of Christ?

It is my understanding of Protestants(most of my family is NOT Catholic) that the Lord’s Supper, the Communion Service, all of that, is symbolic of the Body and Blood of Christ.

In fact, there are some churches that teach that Catholics are practicing ‘cannibolism’. There are those who say, 'hee hee… they think that’s actually body and blood"

It is my understand that it is, for Protestants, a REMINDER of the Lord’s Great Sacrifice.

That is one of the major differences in being Catholic and not being Catholic: that we (Catholics) have the Body and Blood of Christ… the Real Presence… I don’t know what else that term means, but for it’s that there is no ‘crackers and juice’ involved, but what we see has been turned into the Body and Blood of Christ.

And don’t think I am not aware that there are MILLIONS of Catholics, some who have received not only Baptism, Reconciliation and Eucharist, but also Confirmation and Marriage, who do not get that part, some by choice.

So, my understanding of what St. Paul is talking about IS only the Catholic communion, as you are not getting the actual Body and Blood of Christ in your Protestant services.

Did you understand that differently?

Please be careful not to clump all protestant denominations into one ball, all with the same beliefs. Lutherans also believe that it is the body and blood of Christ during the Lord’s Supper that is consumed and not just crackers and juice. The Words said during the sacrament say it all “The body and blood of Christ… shed for you for the forgiveness of sins.” It IS the body and blood of Christ for me, not just symbols.

Blessings.

Jamie

 

[O.S.Luke]

Please be careful not to clump all protestant denominations into one ball, all with the same beliefs. Lutherans also believe that it is the body and blood of Christ during the Lord’s Supper that is consumed and not just crackers and juice. The Words said during the sacrament say it all “The body and blood of Christ… shed for you for the forgiveness of sins.” It IS the body and blood of Christ for me, not just symbols.

Blessings.

Jamie

Lutherans, Anglicans, and United Methodists all embrace the Real Presence at the Eucharist in their official church statements. They do not embrace transubstantiation or consubstantiation… of course, neither does the Eastern Church.

The epiclesis in the United Methodist Church:

Pour out your Spirit upon us gathered here
and on these gifts of bread and wine.
Make them be for us the Body of Christ,
that we may be for the world the Body of Christ,
redeemed by His blood.

O+

 

[ralphinal]

Lutherans, Anglicans, and United Methodists all embrace the Real Presence at the Eucharist in their official church statements. They do not embrace transubstantiation or consubstantiation… of course, neither does the Eastern Church.

The epiclesis in the United Methodist Church:

Pour out your Spirit upon us gathered here
and on these gifts of bread and wine.
Make them be for us the Body of Christ,
that we may be for the world the Body of Christ,
redeemed by His blood.

O+

You have touched on an issue that some of my Catholic brethren have: the lack of understanding of the different forms of Non-Catholic denominations. Some, as you have listed, do have an understanding of the Real Presence. Depending on the group, it may be extremely close to Catholic. Many Catholics lump all Protestants together in the “communion is a symbol only” camp and there is the problem,.

I understand why you, and some of the other posers who see Christ as present, would want to receive. It touches my heart when you discuss how painful it is. I wish all Catholics had that level of faith in the Eucharist.

 

[dianaiad]

(I think I’m getting riled up… but I’m going to try to ask what I need to ask and move along)

• If they are Not Catholic… what is preventing them from becomeing Catholic?
• How many times have you had non-Catholics to ask YOU, ‘Can I go to communion?’, and YOUR response is, ‘Oh, sure’?
• Who is judging their worthiness? I don’t dress up in Lamda Lamda Lamda colors and go to their sorority parties and answer the door if I’m not a Tri Lamda… why would any one who is NOT in full communion with the church need to pretend to be?

OK, I’m completely on the outside of this debate; you guys put me there.

From here your arguments make no sense. Catholics accept the baptisms of these other Christian faiths as valid, yes? Catholics believe that they have the authority to administer communion, yes?

If the people who want to recieve it are Christians in the POV of the Catholics, and if their baptisms are valid, and if they believe that the Catholic communion is valid (even if they disagree on some of the doctrine) because of 'the priesthood of all believers" or whatever they use to justify the belief that communion given by Catholics is valid, then why shouldn’t they want to recieve it?

That IS, after all, what your question was; not 'should" they recieve it, but 'why would they want to?"

I don’t think that non-Catholics should, but then I come from a very different Christian tradition. I wouldn’t take communion in a Catholic service because I believe that doing so would be disrespectful to both faiths; both Catholic and my own. But please note; I would not do this *because **I *believe it would be wrong. I don’t want to.

Your question, actually, is very similar to the ones Christians keep asking me; an innocent and bewildered (and incredibly arrogant) question…“but…why do Mormons WANT to be called Christian?”

Because we are. To us this question is like…a Southern California sky being asked why it wants to be called ‘blue.’

Why do people WANT to take communion in a Catholic church if they are not, themselves, Catholic?

Because they believe that communion is valid–for whatever reason. Doesn’t matter WHY they think it’s valid. All that matters is that they do, and that’s the answer to your question.

 

[Bluegoat]

(I think I’m getting riled up… but I’m going to try to ask what I need to ask and move along)

• If they are Not Catholic… what is preventing them from becomeing Catholic?
• How many times have you had non-Catholics to ask YOU, ‘Can I go to communion?’, and YOUR response is, ‘Oh, sure’?
• Who is judging their worthiness? I don’t dress up in Lamda Lamda Lamda colors and go to their sorority parties and answer the door if I’m not a Tri Lamda… why would any one who is NOT in full communion with the church need to pretend to be?

Perhaps you should contextualize these statements? Do you mean, if a person believes that Catholic Eucharist is valid, why do they not become Catholic?

I think perhaps your misunderstanding that Protestants think that the Eucharist is just symbolic is part of the problem. It is not the case that only Catholics believe in the Real Presence, that alone is not going to be enough to make them want to be Catholic. They would also have to believe lots of other things which the CC says. I personally do not think the Catholic Church is equivalent to the catholic Church, and so I cannot join an organization that would insist on that.

I do not even understand your second question. I have once in an Anglican Church had a visitor ask about the communion policy. I do not know what his denominational affiliation was. I pointed him to the policy in the leaflet. Or do you mean in a Catholic Church? It isn’t very clear.

As for three, I do not need to pretend to be in full communion with the CC. I am in communion with Christ, and I expect him to make up for the limitations that we all have when we come to him. I would go up to communion with some individual I found it impossible to come to terms with too.

In fact, since I think that the Body Of Christ is outside space and time, and that the Eucharist at my own Church is valid, I am at the table with the Catholics, though they do not realize it. And that is perhaps more sad for them than for me.

 

[Harpazo]

OK, I’m completely on the outside of this debate; you guys put me there.

From here your arguments make no sense. Catholics accept the baptisms of these other Christian faiths as valid, yes? Catholics believe that they have the authority to administer communion, yes?

If the people who want to recieve it are Christians in the POV of the Catholics, and if their baptisms are valid, and if they believe that the Catholic communion is valid (even if they disagree on some of the doctrine) because of 'the priesthood of all believers" or whatever they use to justify the belief that communion given by Catholics is valid, then why shouldn’t they want to recieve it?

That IS, after all, what your question was; not 'should" they recieve it, but 'why would they want to?"

I don’t think that non-Catholics should, but then I come from a very different Christian tradition. I wouldn’t take communion in a Catholic service because I believe that doing so would be disrespectful to both faiths; both Catholic and my own. But please note; I would not do this *because **I ***believe it would be wrong. I don’t want to.

Your question, actually, is very similar to the ones Christians keep asking me; an innocent and bewildered (and incredibly arrogant) question…“but…why do Mormons WANT to be called Christian?”

Because we are. To us this question is like…a Southern California sky being asked why it wants to be called ‘blue.’

Why do people WANT to take communion in a Catholic church if they are not, themselves, Catholic?

Because they believe that communion is valid–for whatever reason. Doesn’t matter WHY they think it’s valid. All that matters is that they do, and that’s the answer to your question.

The Mormon=Christian debate is probably for another thread, but I agree with much of what you say before that. If Catholics recognize Protestant baptisms, why don’t they commune them? It seems somewhat silly. If they did not recognize their baptisms, then I would sympathize with them. A little consistency would be great!

On the other hand, my church (Orthodox) does not recognize the baptisms of others. Period. So if you were not baptized or chrismated Orthodox, then no Eucharist. Plain and simple.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Apryl]

The difference would be this: it is Christ that is being offered at the altar, and I am a Christian. To be a repentant and confessed Christian who believes in the Real Presence of Christ at the Eucharist, and to not receive Christ in the flesh when He is offered is painful to me - regardless of what church I might be standing in.

But…

IF you believe this, what is it that makes you non-Catholic? What is it that keeps you from approaching the priest, doing the six or 8 weeks of classes, being brought FULLY into full communion with the church.

A sorority analogy seems (at least to me) a very poor analogy when it comes to Christ’s presence and the Eucharist.

I couldn’t think of a better comparison. Do you have any suggestions on a better analogy? I admit it that I am analogy-challenged.

It is for this reason, and out of respect to the Catholic faith, why I no longer attend Catholic weddings or funerals if a mass is being celebrated, because I know I am not welcome to receive the Eucharist. I would have no other reason to attend a Catholic Church, unless of course I was invited for some special occasion.

Ohhh kay

At your non-Catholic church (I’m supposing you are not Catholic) do you receive the ‘communion’ at every one of your services? If you are not, why not treat Mass like one of those services? Just don’t go up, enjoy the music, kneel and think about what is going on.