Non-Catholics: Why do you WANT to receive the Eucharist?

[Irish_Catholic_1]

…From my point of view as a Christian, I can’t ever imagine denying another Christian the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is Jesus’ invitation that we partake in the Lord’s Supper…

Interesting. By going to a protestant church, you deny it to yourself !!

 

[Apryl]

Perhaps you should contextualize these statements? Do you mean, if a person believes that Catholic Eucharist is valid, why do they not become Catholic?

Yes. This is what I am asking.

I think perhaps your misunderstanding that Protestants think that the Eucharist is just symbolic is part of the problem.

Well, yes… and no. The idea that Protestants think that the Eucharist is a problem for a Catholic church who states that Non-Catholics are not to receive. It is not a problem for Non-Catholics… and not what I was talking about… because I think that if ‘in order to play in this game, you need to follow these rules’… and it’s not the WHY of the rules, or bending the rules.

So, if a person says, “I believe that the University of Michigan is a great school… but I’m going to go to Ohio State”, that person is NOT going to be welcome at the U of M Tailgate Party! No matter what they may think, or what they say, the FACT IS, they’re suiting up with OSU!

(Sorry, I insist on trying analogies. I’m determined to get better.)

I do not even understand your second question. I have once in an Anglican Church had a visitor ask about the communion policy. I do not know what his denominational affiliation was. I pointed him to the policy in the leaflet. Or do you mean in a Catholic Church? It isn’t very clear.

My comment was to the Catholics who have themselves suggested to a friend/loved one that it was ‘no big deal’ that they, a non-Catholic, go to receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist in a Catholic church. Not the church in general. As for Catholics pointing to the leaflet: I think that if more Catholics READ that leaflet themselves would curb a great deal of the problem. If they did, perhaps those individuals wouldn’t be so willy nilly with the Eucharist! (I’m sorry for not having been clearer earlier)

 

[Timothy_Piper]

As I am part of a denomination that believes in the real presence, I want to receive the eucharist for the same reasons you do.

Why do you and others refer to giving thanks as “the real presence” as opposed to the “thankgiving eating of Jesus”? Everyone I know believes Christ oversees and is with His church, by dwelling in each individual and so in that sense there is always a “real presence”.

I do not believe in eating God nor is their any power of a man to command Jesus to remove Himself from the right hand of the Father until He is ready nor do I believe their is another priesthood other than the priesthood of individual believers and Jesus as the High Priest. Neither of this i s found in Scripture and Scripture nullifies the OT priesthood as a shadow of things to come, which is Christ Jesus the substance, not the shadow.

To the topic; it makes no sence to allow anyone to participate that is not a Catholic; since under certain circumstances, Catholics themselves are not allowed to participate; why add insult to injury to the ones that have been forbidden and are among the faithful?

 

[marci]

I don’t understand what is so difficult. One can only receive if they are properly disposed (this has been explained repeatedly). If one is not able to receive absolution through confession one is not properly disposed. This is true because unless you are the Blessed Mother or Jesus, you more than likely have a mortal in on your soul.

If you are not a catholic in good standing do not receive the Eucharist. You eat your own condemnation.

To the non-catholics: do you have any idea the pain that it causes the faithful catholic to witness the Eucharist being abused? By a catholic or non-catholic alike? Are you aware of the countless Consecrated Hosts found in Hymnals or under carpeting precisly because people have no idea what the Host is and eat only to discover it tastes bad so they spit it out, or hide it in their pocket?

Do you know that Hosts are stolen and used in Satanic Rituals? And do you realise that to the faithful catholic, every Host hidden in a Hymnal or under the carpet or on utube is Jesus? The Host absolutely needs to be protected and it is the duty of the priest to ensure this.

I would never be so disrespectful to another’s beliefs in their own house of worship.
Please consider the enormity of what it is you ask.

There have been times in my life when I have obstained for years at a time, because I knew I was living outside of the teachings of the church. I did so BECAUSE of my deep and profound belief in the Real Pressence. If I missed mass without a valid reason, I wouldn’t even consider receiving without going to confession. Not to mention the fact that catholics in general should partake of confession often if they present themselves regularly for Communion.

This whole thread just makes me sad because it’s obvious how many catholics have lost faith in the Real Presence.

 

[BernadetteM]

There are probably a variety of reasons, and to some extent it will depend on the Eucharistic theology of the group they belong to.

In the case of a group that does not believe in the Real Presence, the Eucharist is essentially a symbol only of our unity in Christ. Not necessarily that we believe precisely the same thing as individuals or even churches, but that it is Christ who gives us whatever unity and truth we will have From this perspective, to not participate along with others doesn’t make much sense.

In the case of groups that do have a doctrine of the Real Presence, many of them do not see that they are in any way unprepared or in danger any more than any Catholic individual is. That is because the do not believe that Catholicism alone constitutes the “One True Church.” Lutherans, for example, believe in the Real Presence, and that they and the Catholic Church, among others, are part of Christ’s Church. So a Lutheran would not object to a Catholic receiving at a Lutheran Church, and would see no good reason beyond courtesy that he should not receive at a Catholic Church.

But I am not sure why you think these people are pretending, or playing at being Catholic. It’s actually a slightly offensive assertion. Non-Catholics who wish to receive in a Catholic Church want to receive the same benefits, whatever those are, that they would get in their own Church.

My friend is a member of the Lutheran church, Missouri Synod and they have closed communion. I believe that even other Lutherans who are not Missouri Synod can’t receive communion at her church.

Also when I was an Episcopalian our parish had closed communion. The Orthodox have closed communion. The theology of the Real Presence of Christ is not the same in other denominations, except for the Orthodox. They don’t define it other than a mystery, but it is the same belief as the Catholic Church. Since I believe that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church and that He gave Peter and his successors the right to bind the teachings and rules on earth, then I also believe that what the Church teaches regarding the Eucharist is true and the rules must be followed. I understand that some Anglo Catholics actually understand the true meaning of the Body and Blood, but most others do not understand it in the full Catholic sense and in her wisdom the Church is trying to protect non Catholics from committing a sin that can cause damnation to their souls.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Timothy_Piper]

I don’t understand what is so difficult. One can only receive if they are properly disposed (this has been explained repeatedly). If one is not able to receive absolution through confession one is not properly disposed. This is true because unless you are the Blessed Mother or Jesus, you more than likely have a mortal in on your soul.

If you are not a catholic in good standing do not receive the Eucharist. You eat your own condemnation.

To the non-catholics: do you have any idea the pain that it causes the faithful catholic to witness the Eucharist being abused? By a catholic or non-catholic alike? Are you aware of the countless Consecrated Hosts found in Hymnals or under carpeting precisly because people have no idea what the Host is and eat only to discover it tastes bad so they spit it out, or hide it in their pocket?

Do you know that Hosts are stolen and used in Satanic Rituals? And do you realise that to the faithful catholic, every Host hidden in a Hymnal or under the carpet or on utube is Jesus? The Host absolutely needs to be protected and it is the duty of the priest to ensure this.

I would never be so disrespectful to another’s beliefs in their own house of worship.
Please consider the enormity of what it is you ask.

There have been times in my life when I have obstained for years at a time, because I knew I was living outside of the teachings of the church. I did so BECAUSE of my deep and profound belief in the Real Pressence. If I missed mass without a valid reason, I wouldn’t even consider receiving without going to confession. Not to mention the fact that catholics in general should partake of confession often if they present themselves regularly for Communion.

This whole thread just makes me sad because it’s obvious how many catholics have lost faith in the Real Presence.

It all sounds legalistic, God reads hearts and not rituals. This is what He meant by not celebrating the Lord’s sacrifice unworthily; if the heart is not right with God or His neighbor. I do believe it is the Catholic’s rite or ritual and others should not participate unless they are following the Catholic rules for participation; it is their rules and not anyone’s else.

 

[dianaiad]

The Mormon=Christian debate is probably for another thread, but I agree with much of what you say before that. If Catholics recognize Protestant baptisms, why don’t they commune them? It seems somewhat silly. If they did not recognize their baptisms, then I would sympathize with them. A little consistency would be great!

On the other hand, my church (Orthodox) does not recognize the baptisms of others. Period. So if you were not baptized or chrismated Orthodox, then no Eucharist. Plain and simple.

In Christ,
Andrew

And that, in my view, makes perfect sense.

 

[O.S.Luke]

F you believe this, what is it that makes you non-Catholic? What is it that keeps you from approaching the priest, doing the six or 8 weeks of classes, being brought FULLY into full communion with the church.

Why would I be Catholic? I believe my faith is an authentic Christian faith tradition, as I do Catholicism. I don’t understand the question.

At your non-Catholic church (I’m supposing you are not Catholic) do you receive the ‘communion’ at every one of your services?

I receive the Body and Blood of Christ. I don’t think I appreciate the implication of the quotation marks around communion.

Just don’t go up, enjoy the music, kneel and think about what is going on.

I hope you aren’t being serious. I take the Eucharist and worship far more seriously than that. This bites of being flippant, in my opinion.

I am sorry this conversation has gone this way. I took your invitation seriously. But it certainly appears at this stage of the conversation that it has become bait and switch, so you can prove us poor ole Protestants wrong.

I am sorry. I take the Eucharist with the highest sincerity and importance; I simply cannot ascribe to "Just don’t go up, enjoy the music, kneel and think about what is going on. "

No worries, Apryl. I won’t be attending a Catholic mass, so you won’t need to give me an explanation of why I don’t need to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church.

Respectfully,

O+

 

[Bluegoat]

I don’t understand what is so difficult. One can only receive if they are properly disposed (this has been explained repeatedly). If one is not able to receive absolution through confession one is not properly disposed. This is true because unless you are the Blessed Mother or Jesus, you more than likely have a mortal in on your soul.

If you are not a catholic in good standing do not receive the Eucharist. You eat your own condemnation.

To the non-catholics: do you have any idea the pain that it causes the faithful catholic to witness the Eucharist being abused? By a catholic or non-catholic alike? Are you aware of the countless Consecrated Hosts found in Hymnals or under carpeting precisly because people have no idea what the Host is and eat only to discover it tastes bad so they spit it out, or hide it in their pocket?

Do you know that Hosts are stolen and used in Satanic Rituals? And do you realise that to the faithful catholic, every Host hidden in a Hymnal or under the carpet or on utube is Jesus? The Host absolutely needs to be protected and it is the duty of the priest to ensure this.

I would never be so disrespectful to another’s beliefs in their own house of worship.
Please consider the enormity of what it is you ask.

There have been times in my life when I have obstained for years at a time, because I knew I was living outside of the teachings of the church. I did so BECAUSE of my deep and profound belief in the Real Pressence. If I missed mass without a valid reason, I wouldn’t even consider receiving without going to confession. Not to mention the fact that catholics in general should partake of confession often if they present themselves regularly for Communion.

This whole thread just makes me sad because it’s obvious how many catholics have lost faith in the Real Presence.

No one here is asking anything of the CC. Non-Catholics were asked to explain why they might wish to participate in the Eucharist at a Catholic Church. People have explained why they might wish it, and why the Catholic policy does or does not make sense to them, either from their own perspective or from a Catholic perspective.

Would it have been preferable for us simply not to answer? I’m sure those who have can keep that in mind in the future.

 

[Bluegoat]

Yes. This is what I am asking.
Well, yes… and no. The idea that Protestants think that the Eucharist is a problem for a Catholic church who states that Non-Catholics are not to receive. It is not a problem for Non-Catholics… and not what I was talking about… because I think that if ‘in order to play in this game, you need to follow these rules’… and it’s not the WHY of the rules, or bending the rules.

So, if a person says, “I believe that the University of Michigan is a great school… but I’m going to go to Ohio State”, that person is NOT going to be welcome at the U of M Tailgate Party! No matter what they may think, or what they say, the FACT IS, they’re suiting up with OSU!

(Sorry, I insist on trying analogies. I’m determined to get better.)
/QUOTE]

When I was at university, we often had parties with students from other schools. Why on Earth would we refuse to party with people because they were unfortunate enough to go to another school?

 

[ralphinal]

When I was at university, we often had parties with students from other schools. Why on Earth would we refuse to party with people because they were unfortunate enough to go to another school?

Although I understand your point, there is a disconnect between the two.

Take the extreme Lutheran view that the office of the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Why should the Catholic Church allow them in?

 

[Bluegoat]

Although I understand your point, there is a disconnect between the two.

Take the extreme Lutheran view that the office of the Pope is the Anti-Christ. Why should the Catholic Church allow them in?

I don’t know of any Lutherans who believe this, though I could be wrong.

But such a person would not wish to receive the Eucharist at a Catholic Church, so it’s a moot point with regard to the OP.

 

[ralphinal]

I don’t know of any Lutherans who believe this, though I could be wrong.

But such a person would not wish to receive the Eucharist at a Catholic Church, so it’s a moot point with regard to the OP.

It is still taught in some churches, though it is not a commonly held belief.

Another way to look at it is that non-Catholic denominations are in a state of heresy, even though the individual members may not be guilty of the sin of heresy. Now, they do not see that. The Catholic Church does.

A lot of this would be avoided if Catholics who are in a state of mortal sin would not receive and Catholics in name only would either repent or simply leave the Church, leaving only faithful Catholics in the pews

 

[mmmcounts]

Some non-Catholics attend Catholic Mass on a regular basis - at least during the holidays when visiting Catholic relatives.

Not me. I guess I can provide a hypothetical answer, though.

But why would a Non-Catholic, esp those who are aware that this is a problem for at least some Catholics, why would you want to receive Communion? Where is the benefit for you?

The benefit is from Communion itself. Protestants don’t care who they’re getting it from. Many Protestants don’t even care if they take communion among friends, none of whom are ordained in any way. The Protestant understanding is that the person dispensing the Communion elements has no effect on them. The example of food sacrificed to idols comes to mind, though I hesitate to bring that up- it touches on yet another sensitive topic.

Anyway, here’s the connection. You know the deal with meat sacrificed to idols: As long as you don’t cause another brother to stumble, don’t worry about the fact that the meat was sacrificed to an idol. Eat the meat. The idol didn’t actually do anything.

Protestants view the Catholic Eucharist in much the same way. In our eyes, the Communion elements are the same as they ever were and they are no different from what you’d get at a Methodist, Anglican, Lutheran, or Baptist church. Sure, the people around you believe it became the body, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ. But it didn’t. So I think the average Protestant in this situation- if it were entirely up to them- would take a quick assessment of the situation to see if anyone might get the wrong idea and think they actually believe the bread and wine/juice was transformed, and then they would take Communion as they would in any other church.

Why do you want to receive the Holy Communion, but yet, you are not open to receiving instruction in RCIA?

Some Protestants are open to getting some RCIA education. Most, however, feel that they can do something like participating on CAF and get the same benefit on their own time without the elevated levels of all-around aggravation that are sure to result when a well-informed Protestant crashes the party and steps into a situation where everyone else is participating with the intent of becoming a Catholic. I could certainly see why an RCIA instructor would not want to spend a whole lot of time with a Protestant who has no intention of becoming Catholic. That would be a hassle.

Why do you go and say, ‘Oh no, I’m no Catholic. I have no desire to be’? What is the reason for “Playing Catholic”?

Like I said, I’ve never been to a Catholic mass. To this point, I’ve had no reason to. If I ever do, I’ll let you know. If it ever happens, though, I’m guessing it will be to accompany a friend. If that comes across as “playing Catholic,” we can set that right pretty quickly.

I guess one of my sisters has gone to a few Catholic masses, but that was because she was hired to play the harp there. I don’t think anyone interpreted that as “playing Catholic,” though. She was playing, and she was at a Catholic mass, but she was not playing Catholic.

I’m do hope that this question will at least provoked some honest dialogue on this topic. My thing is I think that so often, Catholics, in the spirit of Charity and ecumenism, are either encouraging, or at least not discouraging, Non-Catholics from receiving, or in effortts to ‘not offend’ are not saying anything, but what is the perspective from the other side.

Um…that’s not what I heard, but ok. I mean, if you go on AAA and post something to the effect of “Is it good for Catholics to encourage or at least not discourage non-Catholics from receiving,” I’m pretty certain of what the answer will be: A link to another post asking the same thing and a variety of Catholic tracts that tell you why you shouldn’t ever entertain such a notion.

 

[Apryl]

Why would I be Catholic? I believe my faith is an authentic Christian faith tradition, as I do Catholicism. I don’t understand the question.

The question is posed because you say that your "faith is an authentic Christian faith tradition’, but you are NOT saying that you are Catholic. We are talking about receiving the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist in a Catholic Mass.

This particular discussion wouldn’t be happening if you were not saying you are NOT Catholic, yet, you want to receive the CATHOLIC Communion

If you don’t want to be Catholic, why receive communion in a Catholic Mass?

I receive the Body and Blood of Christ. I don’t think I appreciate the implication of the quotation marks around communion.

My use of the quotes was because I chosen to not use the term Eucharist, and I don’t know whether or not you would recieve the Eucharist in your church. Please don’t take offense where there is none. We have plenty to disagree on without making more problems.

I hope you aren’t being serious. I take the Eucharist and worship far more seriously than that. This bites of being flippant, in my opinion.

Please see above.

I am sorry this conversation has gone this way. I took your invitation seriously. But it certainly appears at this stage of the conversation that it has become bait and switch, so you can prove us poor ole Protestants wrong.

I don’t know about ‘poor ole Protestants’. Many of my family are Protestants. It is a choice they have made, and a lifestyle they continue to live. I respect that. I would rather they NOT claim to be Catholic if they are not.

I am sorry. I take the Eucharist with the highest sincerity and importance; I simply cannot ascribe to "Just don’t go up, enjoy the music, kneel and think about what is going on. "

In your church, to take communion is completely acceptable for you. But if you are not Catholic, have no desire to be Catholic, for you to take communion in a Catholic church is not something that is true to form to the Magesteriam

 

[Apryl]

No one here is asking anything of the CC. Non-Catholics were asked to explain why they might wish to participate in the Eucharist at a Catholic Church. People have explained why they might wish it, and why the Catholic policy does or does not make sense to them, either from their own perspective or from a Catholic perspective.

Would it have been preferable for us simply not to answer? I’m sure those who have can keep that in mind in the future.

Oh, Gosh NO! We need you to answer.

But now, we, the Catholics who are listening, need (that’s my word… maybe others won’t feel that way, too… but I need) you to help us to understand…

As a person who is active in my church, often in a teaching mode, I need to be able to prepare for the questions, concerns, and understandings of those who are NOT Catholic but come to Catholic church.

I have had friends and relatives come to visit… how do I become empathetic enough to be able to share with them my thoughts and opinions so that they will understand what they are, or are not, supposed to do, if I don’t get a clear understanding from you?

While we are here, in this forum, we don’t see each other… we can get upset, walk away from the computer, and then come back later… we can take a few minutes and look up answers … but we can be REAL with each other.

I think I’ve apologized before for any offense, but I mean it: I do NOT intend to offend any one. But I have questions and I need an understanding.

I can be very raw and honest with you, since we really don’t know each other!

Just like you can say to me, ‘I think this is just another Bait N Switch and you really don’t care what I think and you just want to turn it around’… you’re being honest!

You’re wrong… but you could SAY IT… and I am not going to go take my ball and run home.

No… don’t stop replying. If you are getting bothered (like I even got riled earlier), stop reading the thread for a few days… or don’t reply.

But please do share your thoughts on this topic. As you can see, it’s an informative interesting topic!

 

[Apryl]

Like I said, I’ve never been to a Catholic mass. To this point, I’ve had no reason to. If I ever do, I’ll let you know. If it ever happens, though, I’m guessing it will be to accompany a friend. If that comes across as “playing Catholic,” we can set that right pretty quickly.

I guess one of my sisters has gone to a few Catholic masses, but that was because she was hired to play the harp there. I don’t think anyone interpreted that as “playing Catholic,” though. She was playing, and she was at a Catholic mass, but she was not playing Catholic.

It is NOT ‘playing Catholic’ to attend a Catholic Mass.

It is, however,‘playing Catholic’ to receive the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist in a Catholic church (when one is not Catholic) 'playing Catholic.

Just needed to clear that up.

Please: come and visit. Join us. Come regularly, if you want. But if you are not Catholic (and all that entails), I would prefer you not go up to receive the Sacrament which is the Body and Blood of my Lord and Saviior

 

[O.S.Luke]

Please: come and visit. Join us. Come regularly, if you want. But if you are not Catholic (and all that entails), I would prefer you not go up to receive the Sacrament which is the Body and Blood of my Lord and Saviior

This is the point. It is too painful for me to “come and visit” when Christ is present in Body and Blood and not receive Him. So I don’t come to visit.

I couldn’t have been clearer in earlier posts. I respect Catholicism, as I do my own faith. You would be welcome to receive the Eucharist in my church as a baptized Christian, just as the Orthodox are welcome to receive the Eucharist in your church (which is strange, since that is an imperfect communion as well). However, I know your Church prohibits you communing in a Protestant Church, and that an Orthodox communicant would be excommunicated if they received Eucharist in a Catholic Church. Those are the rules of the respective communions.

I am an ordained pastor in the United Methodist Church. I could not in good conscience (nor according to our church law) deny someone who is properly baptized, confessed, and repentant access to the Eucharist - the body and blood of Christ. Nor can I in good conscience lose an opportunity to receive Christ if i am properly prepared and disposed.

That’s why I want to receive the Eucharist (in answer to the original question). Since it’s against the rules in your church for me to receive the Eucharist, I make no plans to communicate there. However, if I am invited to attend a Catholic funeral or wedding and a Mass is being held, I will not be there either - not because I’m not welcome, but because it is too painful to have Christ present in body and blood and not be able to receive him.

I know why Catholicism “protects” the altar. Being a Methodist, I am not ashamed to say that I don’t think the altar needs protecting. I know that’s where we differ. So be it. I am sure God can handle that, too.

O+

 

[Apryl]

This is the point. It is too painful for me to “come and visit” when Christ is present in Body and Blood and not receive Him. So I don’t come to visit.

I appreciate you not coming to visit. But for those who DO choose to come and visit… AND they see this as the TRUE Body and Blood… why not, since they believe in the HEART of Catholicism, not become Catholic?

If you say, ‘well, I don’t agree with A square and B square’, I can accept that… BUT… if you really believe that is the Body and Blood of Christ… how do you NOT accept all the other stuff, too?

So many who SAY they are Catholic (and I’m talking INSIDE the church, not non-Catholic visitors), really don’t believe.

And then, you have visitors coming… and to me, it weakens what we have.

 

[Bluegoat]

I appreciate you not coming to visit. But for those who DO choose to come and visit… AND they see this as the TRUE Body and Blood… why not, since they believe in the HEART of Catholicism, not become Catholic?

If you say, ‘well, I don’t agree with A square and B square’, I can accept that… BUT… if you really believe that is the Body and Blood of Christ… how do you NOT accept all the other stuff, too?

So many who SAY they are Catholic (and I’m talking INSIDE the church, not non-Catholic visitors), really don’t believe.

And then, you have visitors coming… and to me, it weakens what we have.

You keep saying this, but you are really missing the point.

Why don’t I turn the question around a bit.

Why don’t you become Orthodox? They have the True Body and Blood. They also say that the Catholic Church does not - they just think they do. If they have the True Body and Blood, why don’t you accept the rest of what they say?

That is the heart of their understanding, and by your logic any other considerations are unimportant by comparison.

So, what are you doing in the Catholic Church?