Non-Catholics: Would you vote for a Catholic candidate if he had very conservative Catholic religious views?

[Syele]

I, as a non-Catholic, would vote for a truly conservative Catholic because that person would be fighting for issues I believe in, such as the right to life.

Right I would be more likely to vote for anyone of a religion that agreed with my position on issues that are of interest. Definitely, a Catholic would be more in line with my beliefs than say a Muslim or a Atheist. I want to know more than if they say they are a Catholic or Baptist or whatever… more important, do they live it? I could say I’m any old thing… wouldn’t make it so just cause I said.

 

[BlestOne]

Right I would be more likely to vote for anyone of a religion that agreed with my position on issues that are of interest. Definitely, a Catholic would be more in line with my beliefs than say a Muslim or a Atheist. I want to know more than if they say they are a Catholic or Baptist or whatever… more important, do they live it? I could say I’m any old thing… wouldn’t make it so just cause I said.

Living it is the key… just look at John Kerry as a Catholic that this Catholic would never vote for… or worse, her majesty Queen Pelosi… for which I apologize to all for her…

 

[Cinette]

I would have no problems whatsoever voting for a Catholic candidate - if he or she was qualified. But, unfortunately, their religious views would have little or no bearing on their presidency.

The way that American trends are continuing, there will be fewer and fewer Christians - Christians won’t be able to afford to be prejudiced about differences such as Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc. They will have to cling to each other.

Jimmy Carter is a devout Christian (Baptist) - but his presidency was an utter failure. Reagan was a nominal Presbyterian - and served 8 years. George HW Bush is an active Episcopalian - 4 years. Clinton is a “selective” Southern Baptist, served 8 years. George W Bush is an active United Methodist - served 8 years.

Did their religion play much part in their presidencies? Not really. I don’t think people really care anymore about a president’s faith; they care more about their stances on issues, which may or may not fall in line with their beliefs.

As far as “liberal” and “conservative” - those words are nothing but political rhetoric anymore. They mean nothing.

I agree with you on that last point. I am Catholic and I would not vote for the likes of a John Kerry, Rudi Guiliani, Nancy Polozi (sorry I forget the spelling!!). A President must have good leadership qualities and experience as well as have respect for life, marriage and family. These things are vitally important.

From where I live in Africa we have the perception that Americans are immature. They appear to know little more than beyond the borders of their town, let alone their State and as for their country… When I think American immediately I think of: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth. However, I have to say that since I have been reading Catholic Answers and watching EWTN I have come to have great hope in America and the American people.

I realise that perception and reality are two very different things but you Americans do import a lot of negatives.

One thing is for sure - there is a huge vacuum in world leadership. Could it be out of selfishness? Are the “potential leaders” too preoccupied with building wealth for themselves?

An ideal leader would be brave and passionate about his people and the world. An ideal leader would be strong, firm and gentle.

 

[Cinette]

I agree with you on that last point. I am Catholic and I would not vote for the likes of a John Kerry, Rudi Guiliani, Nancy Polozi (sorry I forget the spelling!!). A President must have good leadership qualities and experience as well as have respect for life, marriage and family. These things are vitally important.

From where I live in Africa we have the perception that Americans are immature. They appear to know little more than beyond the borders of their town, let alone their State and as for their country… When I think American immediately I think of: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth. However, I have to say that since I have been reading Catholic Answers and watching EWTN I have come to have great hope in America and the American people.

I realise that perception and reality are two very different things but you Americans do export a lot of negatives.

One thing is for sure - there is a huge vacuum in world leadership. Could it be out of selfishness? Are the “potential leaders” too preoccupied with building wealth for themselves?

An ideal leader would be brave and passionate about his people and the world. An ideal leader would be strong, firm and gentle.

 

[BlestOne]

I agree with you on that last point. I am Catholic and I would not vote for the likes of a John Kerry, Rudi Guiliani, Nancy Polozi (sorry I forget the spelling!!). A President must have good leadership qualities and experience as well as have respect for life, marriage and family. These things are vitally important.

From where I live in Africa we have the perception that Americans are immature. They appear to know little more than beyond the borders of their town, let alone their State and as for their country… When I think American immediately I think of: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth. However, I have to say that since I have been reading Catholic Answers and watching EWTN I have come to have great hope in America and the American people.

I realise that perception and reality are two very different things but you Americans do import a lot of negatives.

One thing is for sure - there is a huge vacuum in world leadership. Could it be out of selfishness? Are the “potential leaders” too preoccupied with building wealth for themselves?

An ideal leader would be brave and passionate about his people and the world. An ideal leader would be strong, firm and gentle.

I assure you that is not what America is like…America is such a vast array of different people it is amazing. We have very many people who are no doubt like you described but the majority are not.

There is such a wide variety of lifestyles here that no doubt you could be so confused meeting some of them. The crowd I hang with includes the people of my parish and the folk whose kids go to the same schools as my kids… some of them are rich entrepreneurs while some barely have a roof over their heads. As for maturity levels… it all depends on how you define it… if it is world citizenship… right alot have never been outside of the US but then again, some subscribe to the notion that we should explore this country first then travel the world… and then there are others that jet-set all over the place. Of the people I work with, my boss just got back from vacation in Rome, we have one in Indonesia right now and one on his way to China at this moment. I have only been all over the eastern and southern part of the US and Canada and one of my co-workers vacations in Mexico twice a year. We are a pretty typical group… While I am the one who travels the least, it is probably because I have lived in so many states here in the US…Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Texas, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and Mississippi and have traveled to New York, Florida, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine and Alabama for business or vacations. That is about 20 of the 50 states… and believe me they are all very different!

As far as this list: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth… Yeah I bet just about everyone in the US has a preference between coke and pepsi, fast food is a typical teenage place to go with your friends… I view entertainers as entertainers… I can’t stand when they try to use their name recognition to tell me their political views for example… I don’t watch soaps and I wouldn’t describe myself as childish in the least…

What I have seen here in the US is tainted by my occupation… I did 8 yrs in the Air Force working on radar systems and high tech electronics, I have worked in the computer field for over 25 years in some way shape or form…I see people who are really tech savvy and I see people who know nothing about tech stuff… and just a very few that think they can buy services from people like me and not have to learn anything on their own.

One of the richest women I have ever known does incredible charity work… she runs the back to school clothes and supplies for poor kids, the Angel tree Christmas for the poor, she makes all her own curtains and quilts, and she serves on the board for our local Catholic High school. When I broke my leg last year she made dinner for my family and brought it over… and she runs the funeral luncheons for our parish… getting volunteers to donate salads and deserts for funerals. This country has some of the most generous hearts in the world!

I think you do have a point about some of the leaders of this country wanting to build wealth instead of serve the people though… There seems to be very many like that doesn’t there. I guess it is a matter of what the voters value… after all they are the ones who elect our leaders.

I do disagree with your idea of what qualities a good leader should have though… gentle is definitely not a characteristic I would recommend in a world leader… With all we have to contend with, I think it would be fatal be gentle… I mean really… who does everyone call when they need help? Money for a natural disaster… call the US… Aid for AIDS ridden countries… call the US… Terrorists taking over…call the US… help overthrowing your drug dealing government… call the US… everybody has a hand out to the US… and we help with money, supplies, troops, etc to just about every country. Maybe that is truly where the difference is… we think we have to be tough and other countries think we are too rough… but they still call us when they need us so we must be doing something right.

 

[Cinette]

I assure you that is not what America is like…America is such a vast array of different people it is amazing. We have very many people who are no doubt like you described but the majority are not.

There is such a wide variety of lifestyles here that no doubt you could be so confused meeting some of them. The crowd I hang with includes the people of my parish and the folk whose kids go to the same schools as my kids… some of them are rich entrepreneurs while some barely have a roof over their heads. As for maturity levels… it all depends on how you define it… if it is world citizenship… right alot have never been outside of the US but then again, some subscribe to the notion that we should explore this country first then travel the world… and then there are others that jet-set all over the place. Of the people I work with, my boss just got back from vacation in Rome, we have one in Indonesia right now and one on his way to China at this moment. I have only been all over the eastern and southern part of the US and Canada and one of my co-workers vacations in Mexico twice a year. We are a pretty typical group… While I am the one who travels the least, it is probably because I have lived in so many states here in the US…Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Texas, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and Mississippi and have traveled to New York, Florida, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine and Alabama for business or vacations. That is about 20 of the 50 states… and believe me they are all very different!

As far as this list: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth… Yeah I bet just about everyone in the US has a preference between coke and pepsi, fast food is a typical teenage place to go with your friends… I view entertainers as entertainers… I can’t stand when they try to use their name recognition to tell me their political views for example… I don’t watch soaps and I wouldn’t describe myself as childish in the least…

What I have seen here in the US is tainted by my occupation… I did 8 yrs in the Air Force working on radar systems and high tech electronics, I have worked in the computer field for over 25 years in some way shape or form…I see people who are really tech savvy and I see people who know nothing about tech stuff… and just a very few that think they can buy services from people like me and not have to learn anything on their own.

One of the richest women I have ever known does incredible charity work… she runs the back to school clothes and supplies for poor kids, the Angel tree Christmas for the poor, she makes all her own curtains and quilts, and she serves on the board for our local Catholic High school. When I broke my leg last year she made dinner for my family and brought it over… and she runs the funeral luncheons for our parish… getting volunteers to donate salads and deserts for funerals. This country has some of the most generous hearts in the world!

I think you do have a point about some of the leaders of this country wanting to build wealth instead of serve the people though… There seems to be very many like that doesn’t there. I guess it is a matter of what the voters value… after all they are the ones who elect our leaders.

I do disagree with your idea of what qualities a good leader should have though… gentle is definitely not a characteristic I would recommend in a world leader… With all we have to contend with, I think it would be fatal be gentle… I mean really… who does everyone call when they need help? Money for a natural disaster… call the US… Aid for AIDS ridden countries… call the US… Terrorists taking over…call the US… help overthrowing your drug dealing government… call the US… everybody has a hand out to the US… and we help with money, supplies, troops, etc to just about every country. Maybe that is truly where the difference is… we think we have to be tough and other countries think we are too rough… but they still call us when they need us so we must be doing something right.

Hello!

Thank you for taking the time to explain a little about the American people etc. When I say that Americans know little beyond their towns I was not referring to lack of travel - one can be worldwise and never leave one’s town. There are books and publications and other resources…

Yes I know that America is a melting pot and your community sound very good indeed.

I said that a good leader should be strong, firm and gentle - if they were just gentle then that would not do. One usually associates gentleness with the feminine. I believe that to find this in a macho type of man is so good. Think about it. Strong, firm and gentle!

I am learning things from this thread! Thanks again.

 

[kalt]

The persecution of the Roman Catholic faith has just begun in Canada. The government ruling applies to most Evangelicals also. As of today, it is illegal for Canadian Catholics to express in any way the teaching of the Catholic church on homosexuality only.
Homosexuals are now a “protected species” with rights and protections far exceeding those of any minority groups.
If anybody found quoting Bible Scripture that condemns homosexuality, will be fined $5000.00 and be forced to apologize to any homosexuals who heard that passage and might be offended.
Canada is now a fascist state.

Does this law apply to public life only? Or does this also apply to private conversations and homilies?

 

[kalt]

I agree with you on that last point. I am Catholic and I would not vote for the likes of a John Kerry, Rudi Guiliani, Nancy Polozi (sorry I forget the spelling!!). A President must have good leadership qualities and experience as well as have respect for life, marriage and family. These things are vitally important.

From where I live in Africa we have the perception that Americans are immature. They appear to know little more than beyond the borders of their town, let alone their State and as for their country… When I think American immediately I think of: Coco/Pepsi Cola, plastic, neon, fast food, HYPE, mass hysteria for Rock Stars, Soapies, childishness and so forth. However, I have to say that since I have been reading Catholic Answers and watching EWTN I have come to have great hope in America and the American people.

I realise that perception and reality are two very different things but you Americans do import a lot of negatives.

One thing is for sure - there is a huge vacuum in world leadership. Could it be out of selfishness? Are the “potential leaders” too preoccupied with building wealth for themselves?

An ideal leader would be brave and passionate about his people and the world. An ideal leader would be strong, firm and gentle.

You do realize that you sound jealous of Americans’ success.

When you think of America, you mention some of its many economic successes. Oh, and you make personal insults about an entire population. Based on what?

When I think of Africa, I think of tyranny, apartheid, mass murder, poverty, cruel governments and their victims, human suffering, rampant disease, rampant starvation.

Of course I also think of the wonderful wildlife. And that makes me think of the poaching and murder associated with the endangered animals.

Africa is a great place to be if you’re one of the “haves”.

You should look at the Europeans’ reaction to Obama.Talk about groupies.

 

[kalt]

Sepharad, you ask the best questions.

I would vote for a conservative Catholic, but only if I agree with the person’s political positions in general.

Since conservative Catholics tend to be liberal on social issues, I would check first to see if another cadidate is conservative on economics and social issues.

I was wondering this while reading another thread about the extreme nature of some of the Catholics on this forum.

Around the turn of the 20th century and even before, in the USA, there were WASP politicians who exploited the nativist, anti-Catholic fears of the ruling Protestant majority. The Al Smith presidential campaign was affected to a degree by this as well.

I’m wondering: since, as some said here, the RCC is getting rid its liberalism from the past 40 or so years, and is headed back toward traditionalism in doctrine and practice, does this mean the old anti-Catholicism will arise again? I realize it still exists now, but it is largely impotent politically.

Do you think that, as Catholics become more dogmatic and orthodox in their faith, non-Catholic reactions will rise as well?

 

[Cinette]

You do realize that you sound jealous of Americans’ success. Jealous of American success? No ways. Absolutely not

When you think of America, you mention some of its many economic successes. Oh, and you make personal insults about an entire population. Based on what? **I am sorry that I give that impression and you may be right I am being judgemental. But you must agree that the media and movie industry reflects badly on the American people - very badly **

When I think of Africa, I think of tyranny (yes), apartheid (ouch, right again), mass murder (well yes again), poverty(definitely), cruel governments (absolutely)and their victims, human suffering, rampant disease, rampant starvation. , all that is true - but have you noticed how in the midst of suffering one finds great courage, human warmth and Faith?

Of course I also think of the wonderful wildlife. And that makes me think of the poaching and murder associated with the endangered animals.

Africa is a great place to be if you’re one of the “haves”.

You should look at the Europeans’ reaction to Obama.Talk about groupies.That will be the Germans, yes I was surprised at the manifestation of mass “hero worship”. My husband is Portuguese and I am Mauritian of French origin. I have to admit that when I was young I was ashamed to say that I came from Mauritius because I hated the racism. Both my sister and I rebelled against it. However I cannot speak for the French but I feel sure you would not find that kind of “hero worship” in the Iberian peninsula. It is embarrassing!

We have gone off the subject. Now where were we? I would vote for a Catholic candidate or any other candidate who has a certain moral fibre and leadership qualities. I have always favoured the Democrats (I guess because I had liberal tendencies) but for the first time if I were American I am sure I would vote the other way. Obama is charming, an excellent orator and debator but… And this has nothing to do with race.

Oh and by the way, black Africans of the older generation have a wonderful human warmth. They practiced “Ubuntu” whereby you extend a helping hand to your neighbour. Without Ubuntu they would never have survived Apartheid.

Thanks for the chat

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I see no reason why we can’t have a young, handsome, thoroughly orthodox Catholic as a candidates running for major offices. I know they are out there, and they will get a lot of support.

They may be out there, but I don’t think they have much of a chance since they don’t fit cleanly into either political party.

What party would support someone who

• opposed abortion (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed excessive hoarding of riches (he must be a liberal!)
• opposed gay marriage (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed the war in Iraq (he must be a liberal!)
• opposed embryonic stem cell research (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed capital punishment (he must be a liberal!)

Short of starting a third party, I don’t think a faithful Catholic candidate has much of a chance.

 

[O.S.Luke]

What party would support someone who

• opposed abortion (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed excessive hoarding of riches (he must be a liberal!)
• opposed gay marriage (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed the war in Iraq (he must be a liberal!)
• opposed embryonic stem cell research (he must be a conservative!)
• opposed capital punishment (he must be a liberal!)

Short of starting a third party, I don’t think a faithful Catholic candidate has much of a chance.

Most Protestants who are orthodox theologically and doctrinally are of the above mindset as well. And are, unfortunately, also un-electable for office.

Being Christian means that you are above being conservative or liberal - you are consistently a radical in most things as Jesus was. As pointed out in the previous post, that means (at least to the world) that you are sometimes a conservative and sometimes a liberal - and this is unacceptable to American politics and voters. For the most part, we don’t want to have the mind and eyes of Christ when it comes to politics. We want “our side” to prevail - and we’ll settle for something close to it.

Some say we vote the lesser of two evils. Isn’t that still a vote for evil?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

This may be a little off topic, but how many of you Catholics would vote for a Mormon?

 

[BlestOne]

This may be a little off topic, but how many of you Catholics would vote for a Mormon?

I did in the primaries because my first choice was already out… That being said… I liked his morals.

 

[1234]

I would not vote for a conservative Catholic.

…or Mormon

…or Baptist. Remember Jimmy Carter?

…or any member of a religion who described him/herself as ‘conservative’ (conservative UU?–maybe).

But it’s not going to happen. There are going to be fewer Catholic candidates of any stripe. The bishops have seen to that.

A candidate for president has to reflect the will of the people nationwide. The will of most people in the US is that abortion should be available in some form. No candidate for nationwide office, ie. president, is going to run on a so-called ‘pro life’ ticket. If he does, he loses. If he doesn’t, the bishops will get after him. Result: no Catholic is going to run. When John Kennedy ran, abortion was illegal. It is now legal. Most voting US citizens don’t want to change that.

An unintended result of having the RCC meddle in public life.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

But it’s not going to happen. There are going to be fewer Catholic candidates of any stripe. The bishops have seen to that.

A candidate for president has to reflect the will of the people nationwide. The will of most people in the US is that abortion should be available in some form. No candidate for nationwide office, ie. president, is going to run on a so-called ‘pro life’ ticket. If he does, he loses. If he doesn’t, the bishops will get after him. Result: no Catholic is going to run. When John Kennedy ran, abortion was illegal. It is now legal. Most voting US citizens don’t want to change that.

An unintended result of having the RCC meddle in public life.

You may be right about a Catholic not being able to run for office. We don’t fit well in either party. But I have to disagree with your mention of having “the RCC meddle in public life.”

Meddle?

One of the roles of the Church is to speak out on issues. Some of those issues involve speaking out for those who can’t speak for themselves, including the unborn, the sick, the homeless, and others. Should the Church sit by quietly while government policies harm people? When governments promote “assisted suicide,” I want the Church to say “this is wrong.” When governments want to cut aid to poor families or the homeless, I want the Church to say “this is wrong.” And when governments support the death of unborn children, I want the Church to say “this is wrong.”

And if a candidate holds him or herself out as Catholic but ignores what the Church teaches, then it’s also appropriate for them to be called out on what they’re doing.

Even if you disagree with the bishops’ stands on the issues, they have the right to make their views known. Just like the Sierra Club can “meddle” in public affairs, and the National Rifle Association can “meddle” in public affairs, so can the Catholic bishops “meddle” in public affairs.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Well, of course, most European Conservatives would be regarded as Liberal Marxist Relativists by American Conservatives . . . . so the question, as posed, has not the same meaning to me.

Anyway, if I were an American, would I vote for an American Conservative Catholic? - No. Mind you, I wouldn’t vote for an American Conservative anything.

LOL I would vote Democrat like a shot, if I were entitled to. Failing that, it’s going to be the Tories or UKIP, & to hell with the EU ASAP & PDQ​

Mirdath:

What matters is: does he have, first, the sense to say ‘this is what I believe, but national policy is not a matter of my personal beliefs or morals’, and second, the fortitude to mean it and follow through? If so, I would have no qualms about voting for him if I happened to like his platform well enough (in other words, ‘more than the other guy’s’).

Now that is sensible ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This may be a little off topic, but how many of you Catholics would vote for a Mormon?

Yes. It’s not as though it made much public difference whether someone believes in the Assumption, salvation by faith alone, the prophetic mission of Joseph Smith, or the eternity of the Koran. The price of petrol does not differ according to what religion the buyer is, so why should religion be an issue in voting ? A Baptist is no better equipped for that or any other public issue than a Humanist or a Jew. If people want in private to be at odds with other another over what (if anything) they worship, fine - but the public interest is too important for that. Such divisions should have no place in public life.​

If it has the qualities a candidate should have in order to serve the public good, I’d vote for it.

 

[BlestOne]

But it’s not going to happen. There are going to be fewer Catholic candidates of any stripe. The bishops have seen to that.

A candidate for president has to reflect the will of the people nationwide. The will of most people in the US is that abortion should be available in some form. No candidate for nationwide office, ie. president, is going to run on a so-called ‘pro life’ ticket. If he does, he loses. If he doesn’t, the bishops will get after him. Result: no Catholic is going to run. When John Kennedy ran, abortion was illegal. It is now legal. Most voting US citizens don’t want to change that.

An unintended result of having the RCC meddle in public life.

In your dreams… what you need to realize is that conservatives are not the squeaky wheel but we far outnumber the liberals… For example… most people do NOT support abortion, euthanasia, cloning or fetal stem cell research but you wouldn’t know that to listen to the news because they all have a liberal bias and the liberals are the ones making all the noise.

I would gladly run for office on a no abortion platform but I am not a politician.

May I remind you of Rick Santorum? He was a shining example of being railroaded by the Dems because of their fear that he would win a presidential nomination so they created scandal and bad press all around him… that is what really happens to good Catholics that run… the Dems will stop at nothing to destroy them because they fear them.

 

[1234]

You may be right about a Catholic not being able to run for office. We don’t fit well in either party. But I have to disagree with your mention of having “the RCC meddle in public life.”

Meddle?

One of the roles of the Church is to speak out on issues. Some of those issues involve speaking out for those who can’t speak for themselves, including the unborn, the sick, the homeless, and others. Should the Church sit by quietly while government policies harm people? When governments promote “assisted suicide,” I want the Church to say “this is wrong.” When governments want to cut aid to poor families or the homeless, I want the Church to say “this is wrong.” And when governments support the death of unborn children, I want the Church to say “this is wrong.”

And if a candidate holds him or herself out as Catholic but ignores what the Church teaches, then it’s also appropriate for them to be called out on what they’re doing.

Even if you disagree with the bishops’ stands on the issues, they have the right to make their views known. Just like the Sierra Club can “meddle” in public affairs, and the National Rifle Association can “meddle” in public affairs, so can the Catholic bishops “meddle” in public affairs.

The bishops can meddle.

It’s a free country.

…but there’s a difference between speaking their minds and advocating denying communion to someone running for public office who doesn’t agree with them. A bishop cannot know a person’s soul unless he is that person’s confessor.

The end result of *this *sort of meddling is to prevent a Catholic from running for national office.