Non-Christian Images in the Catholic Home

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edrubbra2:
Simply because I have always had a weakness in the virtue of discernment. I don’t know if I am right or just plain wrong in my actions of having these statues in the home. I have made many, many wrong and disasterous decisions in my life that I would undo if it were possible.

To sum up, I want a consensus of opinion before I act. I could now remove the dragons from the rubbish bin and replace them if our parish priest gave the “OK” about having them in the home… but again, the warnings of my friends rinh warning bells for me as well

Mike
Whatever the Priest tells you to do then do that. Your obedience and respect should be to the Priest and he alone has a pastoral responsibility towards your soul and has an unbiased interest in what is best for you and your family. Your friends are not so unbiased nor half as learned in spiritual matters as the Priest. Don’t listen to hearsay and rumour about such things, the phrase ‘I have heard’ doesn’t mean it is fact…get the facts from the Priest and do everything he tells you to do.

If you want to conduct a concensus of opinion you will get some say keep them, some say don’t keep them and some say do what you feel like doing…ignore all of it and do what the Priest says, who knows you and will advise you correctly.

I am presuming you have confessed what you thought were bad decision in the past (if not, you might like to do that, it will bring you Christ’s peace in respect of those things you are now regretting), so now, you need to drop the past yourself and forgive yourself too!

By the way if you ever have any more decisions you think are fairly big and you feel you have difficulty discerning take them to the confessional and there ask for the grace of discernment and the Priest’s advice, when a Priest gives you advice in the confessional, it is the words of Christ Himself, so listen closely and obey.

Remember lessons learnt in one area of your life can be used to deal with other things going on in your life. A man who never made a mistake never made anything; in other words don’t be afraid of making decisions, we all have to make them and we all make mistakes but eventually we grow better at making decisions by God’s grace and if we learn by our mistakes and take advice in the confessional.

The journey in faith is a lifetime lesson of falling and getting back up again…don’t be afraid, get back up again!

In my prayers.
 
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RPConover:
What’s wrong with a dragon though? Dragons aren’t even real, they’re imaginary… how can an imaginary being that’s obviously not the object of any form or worship or veneration be dangerous?
These “dragons” are Foo Lions, which are mystical guardians (they are spiritual beings and are at times evoked or venerated)
they come in pairs
Look at their mouths - if the are placed properly, the one on the left has its mouth open , the one on the right shut.
They are saying the primordial sound “OM”, which is also a mantra
Spiritually, they are considered to be chanting this continuosly in your house

I used to own some myself.
It pained me to, but i threw them out

I also had some Chinese longevity gods, Buddhas, etc and I DID throw them out, because for ME, it seemed improper to display what are commonly sold as “art objects” in my house because these same things were made specifically as part of Eastern faith FOR worship.
Simply, they are idols.

We are not supposed to do things which would be a “stumbling block” to others receiving the Gospel

You can say : “They are just objects” and in some cases that may be true, but all false religions have objects of power, idols and the like.
I am not superstitious, but I also take it very seriously that these objects CAN be linked to demonic forces. (how do you know a devout Buddhist or whoever didn’t pray over them with a specific intent?)

I love world religions and have studied them happily for years, but I would not blindly make any decision to keep or throw them without looking at the spiritual implications of them being prominantly displayed in my house.

A poster above said something to the effect “it isn’t a pentegram”
Well, it isn’t a cross either!

I may be going against the stream here, but so be it

Think and pray before deciding
 
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Godfrey:
You can say : “They are just objects” and in some cases that may be true, but all false religions have objects of power, idols and the like.

I am not superstitious, but I also take it very seriously that these objects CAN be linked to demonic forces. (how do you know a devout Buddhist or whoever didn’t pray over them with a specific intent?)

I love world religions and have studied them happily for years, but I would not blindly make any decision to keep or throw them without looking at the spiritual implications of them being prominantly displayed in my house.

A poster above said something to the effect “it isn’t a pentegram”
Well, it isn’t a cross either!

I may be going against the stream here, but so be it

Think and pray before deciding
Godfrey, you have hit the nail on the head about my concern. Remember that those in greatest danger from Satan are those who don’t believe in him!

I have known only one man in my life whom I considered to be truly evil. He was a Hindu who worshipped and venerated an ancient Fijian god. This man had power and charisma and tricked and swindled many people including myself. He had an image of this god on his altar and used to pray to it daily.

Pagan images DO have power and we must be exceptionally careful not to be tricked into believing that they are just an art form and thus are harmless.

I will consult my parish priest when he visits next to give my sick wife communion and will discuss the matter of the dragons and the Buddha with him.

My gut feeling is that these objects do not belong in a Catholic home.

Mike
 
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Godfrey:
These “dragons” are Foo Lions, which are mystical guardians (they are spiritual beings and are at times evoked or venerated)
they come in pairs
Look at their mouths - if the are placed properly, the one on the left has its mouth open , the one on the right shut.
They are saying the primordial sound “OM”, which is also a mantra
Spiritually, they are considered to be chanting this continuosly in your house

I used to own some myself.
It pained me to, but i threw them out

I also had some Chinese longevity gods, Buddhas, etc and I DID throw them out, because for ME, it seemed improper to display what are commonly sold as “art objects” in my house because these same things were made specifically as part of Eastern faith FOR worship.
Simply, they are idols.

We are not supposed to do things which would be a “stumbling block” to others receiving the Gospel

You can say : “They are just objects” and in some cases that may be true, but all false religions have objects of power, idols and the like.
I am not superstitious, but I also take it very seriously that these objects CAN be linked to demonic forces. (how do you know a devout Buddhist or whoever didn’t pray over them with a specific intent?)

I love world religions and have studied them happily for years, but I would not blindly make any decision to keep or throw them without looking at the spiritual implications of them being prominantly displayed in my house.

A poster above said something to the effect “it isn’t a pentegram”
Well, it isn’t a cross either!

I may be going against the stream here, but so be it

Think and pray before deciding
Okay, but these dragons aren’t real. Dragons arent real, period So if a religion supposes tey can invoke a creature that doesn’t exist, like a dragon, and that depictions of said figment chant a mantra, wouldn’t you then have to lend credulity to such an idea in order to fear it? You would have to suppose that maybe these people didn’t make this stuff up, that maybe there really are dragons that chant mantras in order to be afraid of an image like that. Ok, it is possible that some pagan gods were basedin reality and actually demons, demons of the sort recognized by Christianity and Judaism, possible, but most likely most if not all of them were figments of primitive imaginations.

I guess my point is that while oriental religions may deify things like dragons, we also have our medieval Western folklore concerning dragons, in which they are not deified and more than that recognized in the same category as unicorns and fairies and leprechauns. I almost feel ridiculous arguing this but doesn’t it make sense?
 
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RPConover:
Okay, but these dragons aren’t real. Dragons arent real, period So if a religion supposes tey can invoke a creature that doesn’t exist, like a dragon, and that depictions of said figment chant a mantra, wouldn’t you then have to lend credulity to such an idea in order to fear it? You would have to suppose that maybe these people didn’t make this stuff up, that maybe there really are dragons that chant mantras in order to be afraid of an image like that. Ok, it is possible that some pagan gods were basedin reality and actually demons, demons of the sort recognized by Christianity and Judaism, possible, but most likely most if not all of them were figments of primitive imaginations.

I guess my point is that while oriental religions may deify things like dragons, we also have our medieval Western folklore concerning dragons, in which they are not deified and more than that recognized in the same category as unicorns and fairies and leprechauns. I almost feel ridiculous arguing this but doesn’t it make sense?
What about the BAALs of the Bible? (Baal = a god)
Where they “real” or was something/someone else behind them?
They were condemned by God as false gods.
Fake or not, God called them an abomination and said not to make “graven images” (idols) of ANYTHING (fake or not)

Buddha is worshipped falsely by some and these “dragons” supposedly appeared at his birth as guardians and to authenticate him being the Buddha and to be a sign to all as well as to guard Buddhists.
Real or not, they are part of the mythology of a false religion.

If something being fake or not were the test of spiritual veracity, then we could perform fake magic ceremonies to fake pagan gods, place any symbols we wanted to in our houses with no ethical implications whatsoever (Swastikas are only a symbol)
What do Swastikas, Oriental Dragons, and the like REPRESENT?
They are symbols of beliefs and religions that are NOT Christian!

Why would one want them in their home (whether the look beautiful or not) or NEED them there?

If I walk into a home full of those, I’d think: “This person is probably a Buddhist!” and if I then saw a Cross and a statue of the Hindu diety Shiva, I would think maybe:“This person is a New Ager!” or that they were a Universalist or held no firm religious belief or somesuch idea.

These are PAGAN idols, and symbols of pagan religions.

Shouldn’t our house not confuse people as to what we really believe?
All myths are lies - even if they have a grain of truth.
Satan loves lies.

Would it be cool to put a statue of Jesus on a home altar with a Buddha next to him and a Babylonian demon on the other side?

Even if you have a cross is in the other room it is still in the same house with these symbols and statues of other gods.

Abraham destroyed his house gods
Shouldn’t we?

If Christianity is a joke then who cares?
Are we in this for “cool art” or salvation - our home is part of our witness and evangelization
If you invited a Muslim in to witness to them, NO WAY would they even listen to you with those around (example)

All of these “symbols” have meaning - what is it they are trying to convey?
If you think I am off in this point, I would certainly like to hear why.

This isn’t even about fear or superstition - it is about what we stand for and what we are willing to tolerate in the name of God.

[edit: and I too almost feel ridiculous having to argue this]

Peace
 
I don’t think you should give any of those images power. To think that they can cause you harm be thier mere presence is to give them worship, in a way.

On the other hand, it seems to me that a Christian image is always a better use of wall space.
 
A FANTASTIC movie to watch is “Stigmata”. A young boy steals a set of rosary beads from a prests coffin, he then sells them to a lady. The lady sends them to her daughter as a gift, and then she recieves stigmata. Great movie.
 
If a religious object or a certain religious symbol wouldn’t be appropriate in God’s house, why would be OK in our homes?

I assume we worship and pray in both places
 
It doesn’t matter what other people think of us, surely they will either form a too good an opinion of us or form an overly critical opinion, they rarely form a true opinion and who are people to judge the heart of a man at all more so to judge by a few decorations in their home, no-one can judge as such? Only God knows the heart of a man.

Nothing other than Jesus has any real power, no human, no angel, no demon, no object. Jesus is the only power and might, no sacramental has power without Him, there is no power on earth, in heaven, or in the underworld that can seperate us from Jesus as He is all powerful.

There is a great difference between a harmless religious object of another faith and an object used for evil and don’t anyone dare say other religions and their objects are evil as that simply is not true.

No-one has any power except Jesus and if your heart is Jesus’ then Jesus lives in you and therefore in your home…this is the truth St Paul told us.

Plus it is not healthy spiritually to be overly attached to Christian items either, the cross is on our forehead and on our hand and in our hearts, we have nothing at all to fear, Jesus is with us always and He is our power and strength. This is the wisdom St John of the Cross gives us in Christ.

Only Jesus has the power to bless humans with their own personal crosses such as the illness this man’s wife is suffering for the Kingdom of Heaven. Satan himself has no power against Jesus, Jesus has defeated him. It is ridiculous superstition what has been suggested by this man’s friends.

You may do either keep your objects if you like them or throw them away either is suitable.

See your Priest and take his advice.
 
I don’t think objects are evil of themselves but can be used for the purpose of evil and can therefore have evil attached to them.

WHat would you think of a Catholic who had a symbol of a pentagram hanging on there wall. Maybe it is just for asthetics but I would say it has the ability to scandalize. I believe the same thing can happen with a Buddha statue that is used by people as worship!

Wheter or not something has evil spirits attached to it is hard to determine but if unsure have it blessed. The blessing of a priest will remove anything bad attache to an object. THis is why we have our homes blessed is to push away any evil attachments.

These things I don’t believe are superstitious, I think we live in a very dangerous time and one can never be too careful!

Peace! 👍
 
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edrubbra2:
I have been told by several devout Catholics that having non-Christian images or statues (such as a Buddha or Chinese money dragons) prevents Jesus from entering our home and gracing it. They told me that these inages only allow Satan to influence the home, and serve to keep God out.

They told me to destroy a pair of Chinese dragons I bought purely for decorative reasons and until I did so, our home would be under the influence of Satan and God would be kept out.

To be sure, we have had many adverse things happen to our family (domestic violence and terminal illness: my wife is ill with terminal cancer… and these things happened since I got these Chinese dragons.

Today I threw them out.

Is there any truth to what my friends are telling me about having non-Christian images in your home?
I think Jesus can enter any home where he is welcomed.
 
blessedstar said:
There is a great difference between a harmless religious object of another faith and an object used for evil and don’t anyone dare say other religions and their objects are evil as that simply is not true.

Some are evil, because the sacred scripture says there are “doctrines of demons” There are beliefs that are harmful spiritually and that are lies of Satan

Are thay all evil or not? It really doesn’t matter - what matters is that they are FALSE!

Peace
 
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Godfrey:
blessedstar said:
There is a great difference between a harmless religious object of another faith and an object used for evil and don’t anyone dare say other religions and their objects are evil as that simply is not true.

Some are evil, because the sacred scripture says there are “doctrines of demons” There are beliefs that are harmful spiritually and that are lies of Satan

Are thay all evil or not? It really doesn’t matter - what matters is that they are FALSE!

Peace
Someone had to say it… :tsktsk: …someone had to say other beliefs in the one God were evil or at least suggest it. Satanism, the occult are evil and seek evil this is not a religion, this is anti-religion.

Religion is the seeking of God and all faiths that seek God hold truths and I can’t tolerate anyone declaring them in totality to be false, they hold truths and are a seeking of God, the fullness of truth is held by the Catholic Church alone.

I can’t understand how human beings can be so dismissive of other people and their beliefs even so far as to kill each other over it…this language used by the poster above is the language of offense and war not the language of love and trying to understand the other.

No man can earn merit on their own to get to heaven and everything we are is dust, everything we do is dust. It is only God’s goodness in us by His grace that will redeem us in our choice to follow Him and live by His grace.

You didn’t earn your faith, it was pure gift to you, so who are you then to say such things against others who do not have such a great gift as you to condemn their efforts to seek out the Divine?

If you think only Catholics will be in Heaven you are mistaken because people of all faiths in God will be in Heaven as a soul can only be held to what it knows and by the merits of the life death and ressurection of Jesus will, through the mystical body of His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, achieve salvation.

No faith seeking God is false in totality, there are truths held within and I would ask you rethink your statement above as our late Pontiff Pope John Paul II did not share your views, but the ones I have stated above.
 
I do not believe any such thing that all non-Catholics will be in Hell, etc
That is your assumption of my thought preocesses
I recommend Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger’s Truth AND Tolerance - Christian Belief and World Religions for the real Catholic stance on this overall issue.

It is not relativism of faiths that is affirmed - only their intent to access the truths which Christianity holds and which are only full in it.

Calling my words words of “war” is just as judgmental as you are accusing me of, because I never said to DO anything to anyone else.
Our battle is a spiritual one, not against flesh and blood.
We are told to stand firm for the faith - that is what I am doing.
In this time of tolerating anything and everything, including evil, I would think you would be happy I was.
 
I would also like to add, that if we were to oppose only the embracing of Satanism, the Occult, etc - that which you call “anti-religion”, we wouldn’t being doing our whole duty.

We are to point out error wherever it exists.
We are not concerned only with that which is obviously Satanic, but to expose that which is Anti-CHRIST.

This thread isn’t about eccumenicism or understanding world religions and non-Christian worldviews (and believe you, I understand them fairly well - I graduated a Theology and Philosophy double major) I am all for these things and for dialogue. I engage in it regularly and do not condemn these people.

This is about what a Christian should do in their home.
Someone who supposedly already knows the whole truth.
There is a fine line between benevolence, loving all of any faith, etc and just accepting any idea that crosses our path.

no other faith is the equal in any sense to Christianity.
To show compassion is noble, to not spread the Good News and be a exemplary witness and ambassador for Christ is shirking our duty.
 
I would firstly say listen to your priest to the OP - he knows you better than we do and can advise you better. For myself, while I wouldn’t advocate having statues of the Norse Gods around or praying using Buddhist chants, neither do I think merely having objects around which are of significance in other faiths is harmful or likely to be scandalising.

After all, Christian objects are just as likely to be badly abused.
Is the fact that there are now so-called ‘New Age Rosaries’ or ‘Goddess Rosaries’ available mean I shouldn’t use my Christian Rosary in case someone confuses the two? And anyone seeing the upside down Cross of St Peter (which is used on some altars) could confuse it with an upside-down crucifix which is indeed a satanic symbol.

We have to remember just how much accommodation Christianity reached in its early years with the pagan religions which surrounded it, and how much of its symbolism is borrowed from them.

December 25th was the date of a pagan sun-worship festival - Natalis Solis Invicti. The Purification of Mary? February. Coincides with an old Roman pagan festival called Februa (purification). The name for Christmas in my parents’ language is Bozhich - the name of the old pagan sun-god in those parts.

Easter eggs, Christmas trees, mistletoe, wedding rings and veils, bridesmaids, honeymoons, holy water and oils, incense … all pagan customs. For heaven’s sake, the Pope is CALLED Pontifex Maximus - the title of the head of the Roman state (pagan) religion!

Look at any medieval cathedral - they have gargoyles and other mythical beasts as decorative features. Christian? hardly. And some of the greatest art of the ‘Christian’ renaissance had pagan mythological themes.

Scandal and irreligion are in the eye of the beholder. I don’t think anyone seeing my mother’s collection of Asian art (some of which is undoubtedly of significance in Eastern religion) would think she wasn’t a woman of faith when they also see her collection of Christian art.
 
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Godfrey:
I would also like to add, that if we were to oppose only the embracing of Satanism, the Occult, etc - that which you call “anti-religion”, we wouldn’t being doing our whole duty.

We are to point out error wherever it exists.
We are not concerned only with that which is obviously Satanic, but to expose that which is Anti-CHRIST.

This thread isn’t about eccumenicism or understanding world religions and non-Christian worldviews (and believe you, I understand them fairly well - I graduated a Theology and Philosophy double major) I am all for these things and for dialogue. I engage in it regularly and do not condemn these people.

This is about what a Christian should do in their home.
Someone who supposedly already knows the whole truth.
There is a fine line between benevolence, loving all of any faith, etc and just accepting any idea that crosses our path.

no other faith is the equal in any sense to Christianity.
To show compassion is noble, to not spread the Good News and be a exemplary witness and ambassador for Christ is shirking our duty.
You addressed what I said in respect of other faiths not being evil, so in turn it was only reasonable I reply to that, I realise what the thread is about but the OP said his friends thought that other peoples faith objects will invite satan into their home, this is just not true! I have not strayed from the thread topic.

There are ways of spreading the Good News without accusing other peoples faiths as false in entirity (which to say as such is an untruth in itself) and without hurting them in any way for their beliefs. There are much kinder ways with no venom.

Infact all the words on earth said by humans will not spread the Good News, what will spread the Good News is the Word demonstrated in kindness to our fellow human beings and a great deal of prayer.

In some respects it is prideful of Christians considering their faith is pure gift to them, to then attempt enforce it upon others. Faith cannot be enforced, that is not our duty, our duty is to love God and one another, we do this by living the Gospel and showing tolerance, kindness, mercy and love to our brothers and sisters. Jesus is Lord of all faith, by that I mean that all faith in Him proceeds from Him.

A soul gently handled will be drawn to the Father and by the Father, but a soul attacked may well be driven from God and that is a great sin upon our souls if we should cause that effect in another human.

Gallons of vinegar do nothing but harm, but a small spoon full of honey works wonders.
 
Blessedstar said:

"You addressed what I said in respect of other faiths not being evil, so in turn it was only reasonable I reply to that, I realise what the thread is about but the OP said his friends thought that other peoples faith objects will invite satan into their home, this is just not true! "

I mentioned that my brother brought a ouija board into the home which DID result in the calling of a demonic entity into the home which eventually destroyed the lives of several people. A ouija board is a “faith object” (though certainly not a Christian one, but a satanic one!)…I have read that we are advised against having “faith objects” of non-Christian religions, such as Buddhas, twin dragons guarding piles of money (as my objects are) and statues of pagan gods in out homes so as not to allow Satan a foothold in our homes. Believe me, he will come in at the smallest invitation. Call this superstition if you may, but we all must be aware of allowing evil influences to come into our homes.

In any case, I will shortly be saking our priest about my having Buddhas and money dragons in our home and will soon relate here what is his personal advice. My “gut feeling” is that these things pose a danger to our faith especially if we underestimate their influence.

Mike
 
The ouija board is not a faith symbol it is an object used in the occult (the occult not being a religion seeking God) and we are told clearly in Sacred Scripture to not dabble in such things; they do invite evil.

The other items you refer to such as Buddhas etc are seeking the ‘Divine’ or as described by their ideals, seeking a path to finding the true human identity from it’s beginnings, this is not seeking evil and evil is not attached to it. Our late Pontiff wrote that people seek God even if they are not aware of it and Buddhism by it’s very nature of seeking the true nature of humanity (the enlightenment of humanity) are looking for the ‘image and likeness of God’ indeed the enlightenment they seek is Christ Jesus, but they are not aware of this, this is why our late Pontiff stated as he did.

No, it is not the one true faith of Catholicism, but neither is it seeking out evil, neither are they false in totality (they hold within them measures of the truth, however the Catholic faith being the full measure of the truth) and neither do they invite satan to us. Clearly we have to give our consent for satan to attach himself to us and that is done, not by the object but by our willingness to co-operate with evil. To co-operate with evil we seek it out, either by sin or curiosity with evil itself. Still all the evil in the world cannot stand against Christ Jesus and anyone who believes in Christ Jesus and has given their life over to Him shall not die, but shall live forever with Him, in Him and through Him. Jesus addressed the Jews in Sacred Scripture ‘you who are evil’ this means all humanity who have fallen from grace, afterall the Jews are God’s chosen people, His royal race, those who followed the Mosaic law and still Jesus refers to them as ‘you who are evil.’

In truth anyone who has sinned is evil because we have all co-operated with evil at some point. It is only the grace of Christ Jesus that can make us good, re-create us by the power of the Holy Spirit in the will of the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven by the grace of God and no-one could dwell in this state of grace without God create them to be as such by their recreation in Christ. None of us could stand to the justice of God as all have sinned either mortally, or venially or both (except Jesus and Mary). We can return to the Garden of Eden, by the word of God who set Mary’s seed against the seed of satan and stated that Mary’s seed will crush satan. This is a mystical division between those who seek evil and those who seek good, no man can be condemned for seeking God within the bounds of what he knows to be good. This mystical division is won by the merits of Mary as Mother of her seed (the Church) and Jesus as Saviour and through His mystical body (the Church) the salvation of humanity is created and brought to fruition.

There are truly evil people in this world who have rejected the grace, God Himself alone who is truly good, which God has gifted to them of Himself, they seek out evil and they are satan’s, though redemption is there for everyone we must remember that not everyone achieves redemption and this is because they do not seek God but seek a lie, they seek evil and the Father of lies. To purposefully seek a lie and be a ‘lie’ is very different from seeking good and not finding the full truth but a measure of it.

Who can truly know the state of their soul unless the Holy Spirit convict them of it?

Jesus admonishes us twice on this matter ‘I have sheep that are not of this flock’ and He also speaks of wolves being within His flock clothed as lambs, ‘be as wise as serpants but gentle as lambs’. There is evil present in all places, especially wherever the Holy Spirit goes because satan hounds Him attempting to destroy what graces He brings to souls, thus destroying the salvation of souls. The Spouse of Mary, the Holy Spirit is in this end of times after the Ressurection of Christ Jesus, satan’s greatest enemy.

You are free to fill your home with only Catholic images, you may also put up images from other faiths that seek God, do as you wish, but it is not accurate to say that the images of other faiths that seek God attract evil, that simply is not a truth. If you don’t feel comfortable with them in your home because the images are not of the Catholic faith, then that is a different matter and give them away or get rid of them as you see fit, but don’t think for one minute they cause evil to come to you and your wife, that simply is not true.

I hope your wife is comfortable and I am keeping her and you in my prayers. It is a very trying time for all of you and I suspect that you are placing alot of your fears and worries about her on these objects having been in your home. I hope you find peace in the Priest’s words to you when he visits you.

Christ’s Peace be with you.
 
Dear Friends,

I showed the dragons to our priest when he came to give the Eucharist to my sick wife. He was of the opinion that they were not any great danger to the faith of our home. As for Buddhas, he said it was inadvisable to have them in the home as thet are in fact a symbol of a non-Christian religion which is basically based on man’s enlightenment and not on God’s will. He just thought that the dragons were ugly!

So I’ll keep them as a keepsake of my wife’s Filipino heritage, but will give the Buddha away when I locate it.

Mike
 
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