Non-Christians and Heaven

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ayliana said:
caution: These are my personal thoughts and i do not want to teach or hurt anybody.

this is a purely hypothetical and very ridiculous thing which teaches us that only Christians would go to heaven. In my opinion a person , no matter what religion he follows, till he is following the teachings of his religion ( all religions teaches the same things, only uses different words) goes to the heaven, and we Christians are making fool of ourselves by thinking otherwise.
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Well then, let’s explore – if you don’t mind.

Please tell us in what way non-Christian religions teach:
  • God is ONE and yet three distinct Persons
  • God became fully man while remaining fully divine
  • God was born of a virgin
  • God died in order to reconcile mankind to Himself
That should get the ball rolling.
 
Quote:
May God send the missionaries to 3rd world countries to native tribes to spread the good news

May God send us to our mission field in our own neighborhoods, workplace, schools, grocery stores, shopping malls etc

God bless

mpjw Quote

With these thoughts in mind, please pray for vocations!!! With regard to the second point even wearing a crucifix and medals is a statement that cannot be ignored. The items have been blessed and carry power to convict. Rosaries hanging in your car - anything like this makes people think. Of course the best thing we can do is work on our interior lives because this is reflected in our actions and responses. Very good points mpjw and others.

To the original poster: please let us know what happens.

God bless
 
ayliana said:
caution: These are my personal thoughts and i do not want to teach or hurt anybody.

this is a purely hypothetical and very ridiculous thing which teaches us that only Christians would go to heaven. In my opinion a person , no matter what religion he follows, till he is following the teachings of his religion ( all religions teaches the same things, only uses different words) goes to the heaven, and we Christians are making fool of ourselves by thinking otherwise.
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This only makes sense if we reduce all of the teachings of the Catholic Church (and every other religion) to “do good, avoid evil”. But that doesn’t even begin to cover what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
Jane11 said:
Quote:
May God send the missionaries to 3rd world countries to native tribes to spread the good news
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Have you considered that perhaps Natives are quite content not to know about what you consider to be good news?
 
JMJ_coder said:
Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to the Gospel.
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Inuk - “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?”

Priest: “No my son, not if you did not know.”

Inuk: “Then why did you tell me?”
 
Zatzat said:
Inuk - “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?”

Priest: “No my son, not if you did not know.”

Inuk: “Then why did you tell me?”
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Cute joke, but not very true. Yes, it is possible that someone who has never been presented with the Gospel could be saved via a Baptism of Desire, but the odds are definitely not in their favor.
 
JMJ_coder said:
Cute joke, but not very true. Yes, it is possible that someone who has never been presented with the Gospel could be saved via a Baptism of Desire, but the odds are definitely not in their favor.
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Either way, it would be Gods will if the ignorant aboriginal went to hell and just missed out on a baptism of desire.

…thy will be done.
 
Zatzat said:
Either way, it would be Gods will if the ignorant aboriginal went to hell and just missed out on a baptism of desire.

…thy will be done.
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Ummm, no – the ignorant aboriginal would still be responsible for all the sins they made against the natural law – e.g., believing in different gods, not being chaste according to their state of life, not stealing, not lying, etc.
 
JMJ_coder said:
Ummm, no – the ignorant aboriginal would still be responsible for all the sins they made against the natural law – e.g., believing in different gods, not being chaste according to their state of life, not stealing, not lying, etc.
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I see you wrote it would be a sin for the aboriginal to believe in a different God.

Precisely…Gods will is to doom to hell those who believe in different Gods through no fault of their own.

Sounds perfectly fair to me. :rolleyes:
 
Zatzat said:
I see you wrote it would be a sin for the aboriginal to believe in a different God.

Precisely…Gods will is to doom to hell those who believe in different Gods through no fault of their own.

Sounds perfectly fair to me. :rolleyes:
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It is written in everyone’s heart that there is but one God. Certainly knowledge of the Trinity will likely elude those who haven’t heard the Gospel, but there is no excuse in believing in, say, a pantheon of gods.
 
More importantly, the salvation of individuals souls is a purpose, but hardly the only purpose, of evangelization. Mankind was created to know, love, and serve God, and although there are aspects of God, and elements of his service, that can be known and accomplished outside of the Catholic faith, the fullness of the Gospel is required for us to live out the fullness of our purpose. A person who says, “Then why did you tell me, if that means that I now have knowledge of sin?” is missing the point – it’s about God, not him.
 
JMJ_coder said:
This only makes sense if we reduce all of the teachings of the Catholic Church (and every other religion) to “do good, avoid evil”. But that doesn’t even begin to cover what the Catholic Church teaches.
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I do not believe that “all Churches are the same”. I’ve seen too many of them ‘wimp out’ on the hard teachings. Artificial birth control, remarriage after divorce, the sin of homosexual acts, etc. And, of course, we are the only Church created by Christ, Himself…so those of us who were either born into the Church or led into it, are very blessed.

One Catholic Church teaching is that of Pius XI at the first Vatican council. Though it has essentially been taught since the third century, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863…Pope Pius IX addressed it once more…to the Italian bishops, he said:

**It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; **for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

BTW. This is not aimed at you JMJ_Coder, it’s just that several people seem to be pushing Leonard Feeney’s theories. You know… the ones that got him excommunicated. 🙂
 
CradleCath said:
I do not believe that “all Churches are the same”. I’ve seen too many of them ‘wimp out’ on the hard teachings. Artificial birth control, remarriage after divorce, the sin of homosexual acts, etc. And, of course, we are the only Church created by Christ, Himself…so those of us who were either born into the Church or led into it, are very blessed.

One Catholic Church teaching is that of Pius XI at the first Vatican council. Though it has essentially been taught since the third century, in his encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore of 10 August, 1863…Pope Pius IX addressed it once more…to the Italian bishops, he said:

**It is known to us and to you that those who are in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion, but who observe carefully the natural law, and the precepts graven by God upon the hearts of all men, and who being disposed to obey God lead an honest and upright life, may, aided by the light of divine grace, attain to eternal life; **for God who sees clearly, searches and knows the heart, the disposition, the thoughts and intentions of each, in His supreme mercy and goodness by no means permits that anyone suffer eternal punishment, who has not of his own free will fallen into sin.

BTW. This is not aimed at you JMJ_Coder, it’s just that several people seem to be pushing Leonard Feeney’s theories. You know… the ones that got him excommunicated. 🙂
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😉 Oh, don’t worry, I don’t believe “all religions are the same” either. For the most contemporary rendering of this, refer to “Dominus Iesus”, promulgated by the CDF when now Pope Benedict XVI was in charge of it.

From Dominus Iesus:

With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31).90 This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism “characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ‘one religion is as good as another’”.91 If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.92 However, “all the children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word, and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be more severely judged”.93 One understands then that, following the Lord’s command (cf. Mt 28:19-20) and as a requirement of her love for all people, the Church “proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life (Jn 14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life”.94
 
CradleCath said:
BTW. This is not aimed at you JMJ_Coder, it’s just that several people seem to be pushing Leonard Feeney’s theories. You know… the ones that got him excommunicated. 🙂
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I certainly hope you will do a little honest research.

Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated, yes, but for disobedience, not for heresy. His reconciliation took place on a public sidewalk, he recited the Athanasian Creed, and was never required to recant his position on EENS. In fact, there are some orders (“followers of Fr. Feeney”) who are in good standing with the Church and have the support of their local diocese.

“Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith.
For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever.
This is what the catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.
The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.
Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being.
So there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being.
Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, the Holy Spirit is omnipotent.
Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being.
Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
However, there are not three gods, but one God.
The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord.
However, there are not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are obliged by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person singly to be God and Lord, so too are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.
The Father was not made, nor created, nor generated by anyone.
The Son is not made, nor created, but begotten by the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit is not made, nor created, nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.
There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
In this Trinity, there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less. The entire three Persons are coeternal and coequal with one another.
So that in all things, as is has been said above, the Unity is to be worshiped in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity.
He, therefore, who wishes to be saved, must believe thus about the Trinity.
It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man.
As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh.
He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.
Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ.
And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God.
He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person.
As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day.
He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.”
 
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