Non-Denom a denomination?

[forthright]

Singinbeauty:

I mean, come on people, are we REALLY having this discussion? sigh

Sadly, yes. Unfortunately, it is necessary. We should not have denominations (1 Corinthians 1:11-13), we should be one as Christ is one.

Singinbeauty:

I claim non-denom because it is the closest thing I have come to find that doesn’t SEEM to be clouded by men’s traditions that favor over God’s.

God’s plan includes the authority of the Pope, the bishops, and the Church (Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:18, and Matthew 18:17, respectively). Disregarding these sources of God-given authority is a man made tradition. The ideas of “Bible only,” “Jesus only,” and “faith only” are also man made traditions that are not found either in the Bible or early Christian teachings.

Singinbeauty:

But do you truly think that when God looks at us He is looking at what building door we darken rather than our hearts and our love for Him? God doesn’t see denominations in HIS church because HIS church is US. WE as christians are HIS church. The division we feel is OUR (as a christian whole) doing.

Correct, sort of. Division is caused by humans. God judges the heart where we judge only externally. However, Jesus told us that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian will get to Heaven, but only the ones who do what God instructs. (Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7:21-23). It is presumptuous of us to assume that just because we go to any church that we will be saved. We should seek the one visible Church Christ founded.

Singinbeauty:

By chastizing someone for worshiping God with all their hearts just because they don’t do it the same way you do is so wrong and I am sad that there are those who are so full of distaste for their protestant (or even catholic) brothers and sisters that they don’t see what God may see right they only see what they THINK is wrong.

No Christian (Catholic or otherwise) should “chastize” critically, but we do understand that we have an obligation to correct our brothers and sisters. Some of us take seriously Jesus own words to correct those in error (Matthew 18:15-17) and the dire warning God gave to Ezekiel (Ezekiel 33:8-9) regarding those who do not warn others regarding their erros. We make a big deal out of the differences in denomination for two reasons: First, because we love you and want you to enjoy full Christianity and not some local pastor’s watered down version. Second, because Jesus told us to.

 

[StCsDavid]

I might be wrong on this, but I’ve always viewed these so called non-denominational churches as the ultimate cafeteria-style Christian. Belief becomes entirely based on human opinion of the day.

The only true practicing non-denomination church I’ve run into is a actually a denomination. (Kind of a Catch 22) That would be the Unitarian Church where basically you can believe any darn thing you want.

 

[jasonb82abn]

Jmj

I claim non-denom because it is the closest thing I have come to find that doesn’t SEEM to be clouded by men’s traditions that favor over God’s. But this is what I have found. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for everyone. Some people need the structure of more conservative traditional churches while others are a bit more liberal than I am when it comes to the christian faith. But do you truly think that when God looks at us He is looking at what building door we darken rather than our hearts and our love for Him? God doesn’t see denominations in HIS church because HIS church is US. WE as christians are HIS church. The division we feel is OUR (as a christian whole) doing. By chastizing someone for worshiping God with all their hearts just because they don’t do it the same way you do is so wrong and I am sad that there are those who are so full of distaste for their protestant (or even catholic) brothers and sisters that they don’t see what God may see right they only see what they THINK is wrong.

Boy, why do I feel I am going to get flamed for this???

Singingbeauty, I understand your sentiment, truly I do. I appreciate your feelings and I think I can relate to how you feel – mostly because I have very close relatives and friends (who are very sincere and dedicated) that are Protestants like yourself. But, although what you’re describing sounds nice in a way… what makes you think that is what God wants for us? What you are supporting is called “Church shopping” – seriously… just think about it. If I don’t like a particular thing my church does, or how they worship, or what they teach… if I “personally” disagree with it (or a number of things) – what is to stop me from going out and finding a church that suits ME? Nothing. And with minimal effort, you can find a Christian church that will cater to your beliefs within the thousands of options you have in Protestantism. THAT is what “Church shopping” is… and it is spiritual ambiguity at its worst in my opinion.

I am not a Catholic because I like rituals, Priestly Vestments, decoration, and beautiful buildings. I would go to Mass regardless of these things. The Church is our home, if these things are there or not, if the church building was beautiful and impressive-looking or not, if the Priest was a skilled public speaker or not, if the people were very welcoming and friendly or not. NONE of this is as important to me… as is the truth. And you will not find the fullness of Christian truth in ANY other church my friend.

Church shopping – is expecting GOD to meet you on YOUR terms… not humbling yourself to meet HIM on HIS terms. You should come home Singinbeauty… your home is the Catholic Church! What… do you want me to beg!!?? lol

May the Lord be with you!

Jason

 

[Chris_in_Mich]

Genesis315:

If you prod non-denoms enough they’ll eventually admit they’re Baptists.

That’s been my experience as well, most will admit to you that dropping the word “Baptist” from the name of their churches was part of a marketing scheme to get more people to join. It seems to be working too, there are huge amounts of Catholics going to these places.

 

[Sherlock]

Singinbeauty:

I put a REALLY big target on my chest… Non-Denom here! Prod away!!!

I mean, come on people, are we REALLY having this discussion? sigh

I claim non-denom because it is the closest thing I have come to find that doesn’t SEEM to be clouded by men’s traditions that favor over God’s. But this is what I have found. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for everyone. Some people need the structure of more conservative traditional churches while others are a bit more liberal than I am when it comes to the christian faith. But do you truly think that when God looks at us He is looking at what building door we darken rather than our hearts and our love for Him? God doesn’t see denominations in HIS church because HIS church is US. WE as christians are HIS church. The division we feel is OUR (as a christian whole) doing. By chastizing someone for worshiping God with all their hearts just because they don’t do it the same way you do is so wrong and I am sad that there are those who are so full of distaste for their protestant (or even catholic) brothers and sisters that they don’t see what God may see right they only see what they THINK is wrong.

Boy, why do I feel I am going to get flamed for this???

We’re REALLY having this discussion because this is the apologetics forum—just what did you expect?

You are simply espousing relativism—the idea that there is no objective truth: no right, no wrong, just happy thoughts. Let’s all sing “Kumbaya”—no wait, that sounds too authoritarian: maybe all of those who think they they might like to sing “Kumbaya”—no wait, they don’t HAVE to sing, we don’t want to impose our expectations on any one, chant is OK—they can, if they so choose, gather in a circle (or a square—we’re not against squares—we’re inclusive of ALL shapes) and sing together. Well, don’t feel like you have to sing TOGETHER: individually, as the spirit moves, would be just fine…

Singingbeauty, though I admire you for your kind heart, you are probably on the wrong forum here—the spirituality forum might be a better choice.

It is impossible to defend one’s faith and values when you don’t know what they are.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Oh Sherlock, can I please use your Kumbaya analogy on another forum should the subject of relativism come forward? I just love it!

 

[Singinbeauty]

Sherlock:

We’re REALLY having this discussion because this is the apologetics forum—just what did you expect?

You are simply espousing relativism—the idea that there is no objective truth: no right, no wrong, just happy thoughts. Let’s all sing “Kumbaya”—no wait, that sounds too authoritarian: maybe all of those who think they they might like to sing “Kumbaya”—no wait, they don’t HAVE to sing, we don’t want to impose our expectations on any one, chant is OK—they can, if they so choose, gather in a circle (or a square—we’re not against squares—we’re inclusive of ALL shapes) and sing together. Well, don’t feel like you have to sing TOGETHER: individually, as the spirit moves, would be just fine…

Singingbeauty, though I admire you for your kind heart, you are probably on the wrong forum here—the spirituality forum might be a better choice.

It is impossible to defend one’s faith and values when you don’t know what they are.

Yep, that’s me, just the christian equivilant of a hippy child. Peace, Love, and Happiness… Boy, if that stuff is wrong I don’t know WHAT Jesus had been talking about.

But seriously, do you know me or my convictions? I believe that there is ONE truth and ONE right. And here it is… Are you ready…

JESUS DIED FOR MY SINS AND WASHED MY HEART AND SOUL AS WHITE AS SNOW SO THAT WHEN I SEE GOD ON JUDGEMENT DAY HE WILL WELCOME ME WITH OPEN ARMS. MY LIFE THROUGH CHRIST IS PURE IN GOD’S EYES.

Yes, there are guidelines to follow and I don’t take those lightly. I truly believe that I follow Christ and His teaching according to what I have read and studied. I am not looking for a “feel good” church. It doesn’t have to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. In fact I look for a church that makes me think and challenges my views and makes me study harder into my faith and my relationship with God. I am glad that I don’t let anyone tell me how my relationship with God SHOULD be because I get all my directions from Him. HE guides me, not some normal human. Sure, I mess up. I have been shrinking away from Him for a while now and am back on the right track. I love God with all my heart, mind, and soul. There is no one above Him. Not even my church.

I don’t believe in political correctness when it comes to my relationship with God. I am straight forward about what I believe. I may sound like I am a ‘bleeding heart’ out here but at least I am trying to UNITE christians and not tear them apart…

 

[Little_Mary]

I started a thread about this topic earlier this year. I met a self-described “non-denominational” who said …“I’m not going to stick my flag in the sand and say this is it, this is the right religion” HOWEVER, he refuses to consider Catholic teaching. My beef with him is that his refusal to consider Catholic teaching before he calls himself non-denom is, in itself, sticking his flag in the sand.

Anyway, it was a pretty hot thread for a while. I’ve posted the link below (I think I have, you might just get to a post becaue I’m no good a links but at least it will get you to the thread…)

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=35768

 

[JohnPaul0]

Singinbeauty:

But seriously, do you know me or my convictions? I believe that there is ONE truth and ONE right. And here it is… Are you ready…

JESUS DIED FOR MY SINS AND WASHED MY HEART AND SOUL AS WHITE AS SNOW SO THAT WHEN I SEE GOD ON JUDGEMENT DAY HE WILL WELCOME ME WITH OPEN ARMS. MY LIFE THROUGH CHRIST IS PURE IN GOD’S EYES.

Singin, please let me make my point by a few questions

1. Who’s JESUS?
2. Why should he have DIED FOR MY SINS?
3. How does that WASH MY HEART AND SOUL AS WHITE AS SNOW ?
4. Who’s GOD and when is JUDGEMENT DAY and how do you know that you will SEE GOD?
5. How do you know that HE WILL WELCOME ME WITH OPEN ARMS?
6. MY LIFE THROUGH CHRIST IS PURE IN GOD’S EYES–what does this mean?

The point is this: you know exactly what you mean (I do, too), but someone had to TEACH you that. Yes, someone had to teach you even your boiled, down core belief. That teaching is done by CHURCH MEMBERS. So, you need a Church. The next question is: which Church? They all don’t agree (even with your boiled-down statement).

 

[forthright]

Singinbeauty:

I am glad that I don’t let anyone tell me how my relationship with God SHOULD be because I get all my directions from Him. HE guides me, not some normal human.

This is how we have millions of people in this country, all of them sincerely trying to do what God wants them to, attending 30,000 Protestant churches. If the Biblical teaching for a single visible Church with governing authority isn’t enough, the state of Protestantism in America should be.

Singinbeauty:

I don’t believe in political correctness when it comes to my relationship with God. I am straight forward about what I believe. I may sound like I am a ‘bleeding heart’ out here but at least I am trying to UNITE christians and not tear them apart…

I’m glad you are. Since we both agree in not being PC, I feel comfortable being this blunt with you. By the way, since when is trying to convince our separated brethren to come home tearing them apart? You seem to have the impression that Protestants are somehow unified already. The only unity to be found in Christianity is in Catholicism. (And please don’t say all Christians are united through Christ. I know that’s true. I realize that Christ is the pinnacle of our faith and we should not put anything above Him. But the Church is the Body of Christ, so putting the Church on His level is not incorrect.)

P.S. I feel kinda bad about this post. If I went from simply “not being PC” to being completely antagonistic, please correct me.

 

[Singinbeauty]

The point is this: you know exactly what you mean (I do, too), but someone had to TEACH you that. Yes, someone had to teach you even your boiled, down core belief. That teaching is done by CHURCH MEMBERS. So, you need a Church. The next question is: which Church? They all don’t agree (even with your boiled-down statement).

I never said I didn’t need a church. I do need a church, but with the corruption out there in EVERY church and the evil that is done in and in the name of those churches, it’s real hard to know which is the RIGHT one. You’ve got church leaders molesting children (not just catholic but protestant also), people stealing money from the congregations to become rich, church leaders lying to the people they are supposed to guide, churches killing innocent people but blaming it on the government… and many more things. ALL DONE IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

So why don’t I choose to affiliate with a certain denomination? Please see the reasons listed above. In the end God sees my heart and what I am after. I am after HIM and HIM alone. Not a church, a person here on earth to follow, and not a tainted or alterior motive message. I listen to my pastor and other well read men and/or women then take what they teach and put it up against what I know to be true in the bible. Some ring true some don’t. And if I get stumped I ask MANY of those around me their views and PRAY a lot! There is too much corruption in the church, any church. And more and more it seems that the blind are leading the blind.

I follow the teachings of Christ. Plain and simple.

 

[JohnPaul0]

Singinbeauty:

I never said I didn’t need a church. I do need a church, but with the corruption out there in EVERY church and the evil that is done in and in the name of those churches, it’s real hard to know which is the RIGHT one. .

Singin, you are confusing impeccability with infallibility.

The Catholic Church makes the bold claim of infallibility. That means that her teachings on faith and morals are free from error.

She never claims impeccability, which means sinlessness. Don’t confuse the two, and please don’t be discouraged by the sins of Christians. That’s exactly what Satan wants.

 

[Singinbeauty]

forthright:

This is how we have millions of people in this country, all of them sincerely trying to do what God wants them to, attending 30,000 Protestant churches. If the Biblical teaching for a single visible Church with governing authority isn’t enough, the state of Protestantism in America should be.

Believe me, I state my ‘unity’ belief to ALL protestant and catholic christians. There was differences of opinions even in the bible when it came to worship and how things should be done. Just look at Peter and Paul. God does not say that you only find salvation through the church but you ONLY find salvation through Christ. Christ did not say that you will only attain salvation through the church but you will attain it through HIM. So my faith is in Christ, not a church. We as christians are the body of Christ. We are different because we serve different purposes. The hands, the feet, the heart, the legs, the eyes, the nose, etc… If we weren’t different we couldn’t spread the news that Jesus has RISEN to all the DIFFERENT people in the world. It’s because we as christians ARE Christ’s church, not any one denomination. Our world is changing and we have to have growing pains. There is NO christian church that differs on the most important belief… That Christ died for our sins and God loves us very much.

forthright:

I’m glad you are. Since we both agree in not being PC, I feel comfortable being this blunt with you. By the way, since when is trying to convince our separated brethren to come home tearing them apart? You seem to have the impression that Protestants are somehow unified already. The only unity to be found in Christianity is in Catholicism. (And please don’t say all Christians are united through Christ. I know that’s true. I realize that Christ is the pinnacle of our faith and we should not put anything above Him. But the Church is the Body of Christ, so putting the Church on His level is not incorrect.)

P.S. I feel kinda bad about this post. If I went from simply “not being PC” to being completely antagonistic, please correct me.

We tear eachother apart by ignoring the heart and telling them they are stupid or being hatefull towards their beliefs. We tear them down by yelling at them instead of listening and being gentle in our reasoning. We tear eachother down when we turn our backs on them and tell them that they do not love Christ. The church is not on the same plain as Christ. I do not believe that He was behind any killing done in His name. I know those acts kill Him. When we are loving eachother and at least trying to understand where they are coming from God blesses us…
1 John 2:10-12 (New Living Translation):

10Anyone who loves other Christians is living in the light and does not cause anyone to stumble. 11Anyone who hates a Christian brother or sister is living and walking in darkness. Such a person is lost, having been blinded by the darkness.

12I am writing to you, my dear children, because your sins have been forgiven because of Jesus.

I talk of love and understanding. If you believe Christ died for your sins then you are my brother or sister. I may not agree with some of the ways you worship but I love you because our heavenly Father loves you. Your salvation is between you and God. My life’s example is all I can give you.

 

[Singinbeauty]

JohnPaul0:

Singin, you are confusing impeccability with infallibility.

The Catholic Church makes the bold claim of infallibility. That means that her teachings on faith and morals are free from error.

She never claims impeccability, which means sinlessness. Don’t confuse the two, and please don’t be discouraged by the sins of Christians. That’s exactly what Satan wants.

But see, that’s the thing, if we are to blindly follow a church, unquestioningly, why wouldn’t it be perfect? The ONE that I follow IS perfect because HE is Christ. Apon His teachings is where my faith is based. Not a church where it’s very leaders are misleading and harming the people they are supposed to be leading. I am sure Peter and Paul are SHOCKED that there are those who still follow churches that kill in Jesus’ name just because the other person does not believe the same way they do.

 

[JohnPaul0]

Singinbeauty:

But see, that’s the thing, if we are to blindly follow a church, unquestioningly, why wouldn’t it be perfect? The ONE that I follow IS perfect because HE is Christ. Apon His teachings is where my faith is based. Not a church where it’s very leaders are misleading and harming the people they are supposed to be leading. I am sure Peter and Paul are SHOCKED that there are those who still follow churches that kill in Jesus’ name just because the other person does not believe the same way they do.

Blindly? No. There are very good reasons why I believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth that Jesus intended for his followers. So, to answer your complaint that “it’s real hard to know which is the RIGHT [Church],” I offer you the hope that it is possible:

Here’s some of the information:
catholic.com/library/What_Your_Authority.asp

Also, I see a big contradiction in your statements. On one hand, you know very well that what you’ve learned comes from Church members, and you are convinced of your beliefs. On the other, you claim not to trust any church. Therefore, how can you trust what you believe?

 

[Singinbeauty]

JohnPaul0:

Blindly? No. There are very good reasons why I believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth that Jesus intended for his followers. So, to answer your complaint that “it’s real hard to know which is the RIGHT [Church],” I offer you the hope that it is possible:

Here’s some of the information:
catholic.com/library/What_Your_Authority.asp

Also, I see a big contradiction in your statements. On one hand, you know very well that what you’ve learned comes from Church members, and you are convinced of your beliefs. On the other, you claim not to trust any church. Therefore, how can you trust what you believe?

Because the Holy Spirit guides me in the search for Truth not a simple human man.

 

[JohnPaul0]

Singinbeauty:

Because the Holy Spirit guides me in the search for Truth not a simple human man.

If the Holy Spirit guides you, how do you explain all the different denominations with different teachings?

 

[scylla]

No church is perfect in tha actions of it’s members and if you judge the Catholic Church like that then you are being dishonest in your search of the truth.

This is why, I will explain,
I believe the Bible is 100% true as a Catholic, yet if I see a Bible believer sinning and some even doing evil, evil things (many people do this all the time) does that mean the Bible is incorrect in what it says? What about the early church?
'Should I disregard the Epistles of Peter in the Bible because he claimed not to know Jesus? Should I disregard Romans, because Paul did some horrible things to Christians. (this was before he was Christian but as long as I am just looking at actions of people)

Why then be inconsistant and state that because some members of Churches (or leaders do wrong) does that mean the Church is teaching to do these sort of things. This means you are judging the truth by your subjective opinion and not by what is the truth. I know some very holy mormons who are great examples of how Christians should act, but I search for truth in teaching and don’t follow the Mormon Church just because of their example. That is important but not what is the truth.

God Bless you, and you do have a nice website, I like it better than the last one.
Scylla

 

[reen12]

quote: NonDenom

We do not belong to any group of church’s, we are autonomous in the fact that we do not belong to any organized group of church’s. This does not mean that we believe whatever our Minister says, we use the scriptures as our law and the Holy Spirit as our guide.
2 Tim 3:16

This does not mean that we believe whatever our Minister says, we use the scriptures as our law and the Holy Spirit as our guide

Sounds good to me, NonDenom.

Best,
reen12

 

[mlchance]

Singinbeauty:

But see, that’s the thing, if we are to blindly follow a church…

Because Catholics - unlike you - aren’t allowed to think for themselves. Catholics - unlike you - are automatons who submit to criminal priests.

– Mark L. Chance.