Non-Denom a denomination?

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Yup! I have a friend who says she’s non-denominational, but they have ‘guidelines’ to what they believe…seems like a denomination to me!
 
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mlchance:
Because Catholics - unlike you - aren’t allowed to think for themselves. Catholics - unlike you - are automatons who submit to criminal priests.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Please clarify. You sound like you believe that Catholics blindly do whatever they’re told like mindless robots. Are you being sarcastic? Judging by your number of posts, I would think you should know better.
 
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JohnPaul0:
If the Holy Spirit guides you, how do you explain all the different denominations with different teachings?
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You know, I hear this question A LOT and yet it is still not a reasonable one to me. Even the catholic church is not the same since it began. At one point the belief of Mary was completely different than it is now. Where one early pope said it was wrong to believe that Mary has such a high status as she does now another refuted that and voila, Mary sits on a seat almost as high as God (notice I said almost). The church needs to follow different paths to meet everyone. I believe that as long as it teaches of Christ’s sacrifice being the ONLY way to God along with Love it’s still pleasing in God’s eyes.

If the Holy Spirit is leading ANY church leader then why do we have some of them molesting children and robbing their followers??? Because they don’t listen to the Holy Spirit. Hence the different denominations. They say that they are listening to Him but you can see, by their actions, that they aren’t.
 
Even the bible tells us that we need guidance when it comes to Scripture. Remember Phillip and the eunich when Phillip asked him if he understood scripture and the eunich answered “How can I unless someone guides me” (paraphrased). This eunich was a well educated man but he knew that he would need help accurately interpreting scripture. Did Phillip say “Oh that’s OK just pray to the Holy Spirit and you’ll be OK”? NOOoOo, he got up in the chariot with the man and began to teach.

Even Jesus prayed to the Father that we “be one as They are one” - do you really think that the first two persons of the trinity are disagreeing on whether baptism is symbolic or not? or whether sola scriptura is right or not? Do you think the Father and the Son disagree on doctrine? Of course not.

That Catholic church has not changed in 2000 years. It holds, and will continue to hold to the teachings of Christ. It will not change under pressure from “normal humans”.

If each person individually interprets scripture claiming that they are guided by the Holy Spirit then why do so many (thousands) of different interpretations result? Is the Holy Spirit that fickle?
Schizophrenic?

If it is OK to have all of these different denominations (even NON denominational, because they themselves each have their own belief system) then one of two things MUST be true:

It’s either 1) Doctrine does not matter or 2) it’s OK to have conflicting doctrines.
 
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Singinbeauty:
If the Holy Spirit is leading ANY church leader then why do we have some of them molesting children and robbing their followers??? Because they don’t listen to the Holy Spirit. Hence the different denominations. They say that they are listening to Him but you can see, by their actions, that they aren’t.
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First of all, singinbeauty, you yourself say that some churches do this, so you must agree that not all of them do it. I would venture to say that most churches have honest pastors.

If someone is stealing or molesting you are right, they have turned away from God and are not listening to Him, and some are even wacky enough to say that God told them to steal or whatever.

But whether or not we are all unified in One True Church is a separate matter, imo. Are you saying that there are all these different denominations because all of these thousands are not listening to the Holy Spirit…but you are? :confused:
How do you discern that you are right and the rest of us are wrong? The Holy Spirit told you, I suppose?

Forgive my sarcasm, but I would like some clarification on this statement if you don’t mind. Thanks. 🙂
 
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Singinbeauty:
I never said I didn’t need a church. I do need a church, but with the corruption out there in EVERY church and the evil that is done in and in the name of those churches, it’s real hard to know which is the RIGHT one. You’ve got church leaders molesting children (not just catholic but protestant also), people stealing money from the congregations to become rich, church leaders lying to the people they are supposed to guide, churches killing innocent people but blaming it on the government… and many more things. ALL DONE IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

So why don’t I choose to affiliate with a certain denomination? Please see the reasons listed above. In the end God sees my heart and what I am after. I am after HIM and HIM alone. Not a church, a person here on earth to follow, and not a tainted or alterior motive message. I listen to my pastor and other well read men and/or women then take what they teach and put it up against what I know to be true in the bible. Some ring true some don’t. And if I get stumped I ask MANY of those around me their views and PRAY a lot! 🙂 There is too much corruption in the church, any church. And more and more it seems that the blind are leading the blind.I follow the teachings of Christ. Plain and simple.
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If I walk into my Church and someone tells me that Jesus was only human and not divine, I know they are wrong. It doesn’t diminish the Church teachings and the deposit of faith. If a priest is convicted of child molestation, I don’t run to the protestant church. Instead, I pray for that priest–he is a sinner like the rest of us and he will answer for his sin in this world and the next (if he does not repent). But his sin does not affect the Church teachings and the deposit of faith. If I read history and see that there were bad popes who promulgated evil deeds, I do not run to the protestant church because I also know that these “bad popes” had no effect on Church teachings and the deposit of faith.
My point is that we are all sinners and the Church is not to be judged according to the sinners who comprise the Church. Christ is the Head of the Church and He is perfect. I am confident that He established the framework by which we are to worship Him. This framework is at it’s fullest in the Catholic Church as set forth by Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditon.
Since satan can appear as an angel of light, how are we to know that when something is revealed to us, it is from the Holy Spirit and not from the father of lies? We know it is of the Holy Spirit because Sacred Scripture is not contradicted by Sacred Tradition–the 2000 year old deposit of faith.
I go to Church to worship my God, to receive the Holy Eucharist and other sacraments, and to love my neighbor as I do my best to be a living witness to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is not my place to judge you. You are a baptized Christian who loves God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And God loves you more than you can fathom. We are all on a journey–an eternal pilgrimage toward the eternal kingdom of heaven. May the Lord guide you to the fullness of truth.

God bless,
Mickey
 
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Singinbeauty:
Because the Holy Spirit guides me in the search for Truth not a simple human man. 🙂
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So the Holy Spirit is guiding you into the fullness of truth, but the other 30,000 denominations are being misled? Don’t be ridiculous.

A lot (and I mean a lot) of other people believe significantly different things that have a huge impact on how they view salvation, but they all claim that the Holy Spirit told them it was true. The Holy Spirit cannot contradict itself, so it cannot tell one person that their church is true and tell another that their church is true when the 2 churches don’t agree. Even the Mormons, who claim Jesus is not really God but just another created being, claim “the Holy Spirit told me so” argument. It is just not possible to look at the widespread division among Protestants and say that the Holy Spirit is leading all of them (or even a decent percentage of them).

It reminds me of a Simpsons episode where Homer claims to know when the rapture is going to occur. When his daughter tries to dissuade him by pointing out that people throught history have made this claim and failed every time, his response is “But I have something none of those other people had. I have a really good feeling about this.”
 
Jmj

That’s a good question Love_2B_an_EM! I don’t have any idea, but I think it would be hard to say either “yes” or “no.”

I’ve read plenty by and about Evangelical Christians… and I am still confused - it’s hard to point an Evangelical Christian out! I usually don’t even try… I don’t know if that means I’m being lazy or inconsiderate or what! But, I usually just say “Protestant” and then if an individual identifies their tradition or denomination more specifically… I use that.

But… yeah… that’s a good question. Anyone else!? lol

May the Lord be with you!

Jason
 
Love_2B_an_EM:
Are all non-denominational churches evangelical?
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No. Since evangelical comes from the words for “gospel” or “good news,” your question is asking “Do all non-denoms preach the gospel.” I have ran across several non-denoms the water down the gospel so significantly that they cannot be called Evangelical. When a church denies the physical resurrection, the divinity of Christ, or other miraculous Gospel events, it is not Evangelical.
 
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JohnPaul0:
If the Holy Spirit guides you, how do you explain all the different denominations with different teachings?
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Hi JP
This is the same type of question as one I read in another post.
If the Holy Spirit guides the leaders of your church in the selection of the pope, then how come it isn’t a unanimous vote?
Would you say that the Holy Spirit is guiding each one in a different direction?
Thanks.
 
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forthright:
No. Since evangelical comes from the words for “gospel” or “good news,” your question is asking “Do all non-denoms preach the gospel.” I have ran across several non-denoms the water down the gospel so significantly that they cannot be called Evangelical. When a church denies the physical resurrection, the divinity of Christ, or other miraculous Gospel events, it is not Evangelical.
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Then how about this… (just curious)
Are all evangelical churches non-denominational?

And does that make the Catholic church an evangelical church?
 
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NonDenom:
Hi JP
This is the same type of question as one I read in another post.
If the Holy Spirit guides the leaders of your church in the selection of the pope, then how come it isn’t a unanimous vote?
Would you say that the Holy Spirit is guiding each one in a different direction?
Thanks.
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The ultimate choice is of the Holy Spirit.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi JP
This is the same type of question as one I read in another post.
If the Holy Spirit guides the leaders of your church in the selection of the pope, then how come it isn’t a unanimous vote?
Would you say that the Holy Spirit is guiding each one in a different direction?
Thanks.
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The Cardinals ahve free will just like the rest of us. They are sinners like the rest of us. They can choose to ignore the Holy Spirit. However, I can rest in confidence that God will keep His promise that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. He doesn’t give the same assurance to you or your pastor.
 
Orionthehunter said:
The Cardinals ahve free will just like the rest of us. They are sinners like the rest of us. They can choose to ignore the Holy Spirit.
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Hi
So are you saying that every cardinal that didn’t vote for John Paul was choosing to go against the Holy Spirit? or were they realy choosing the person that thought was best for the job?
I can rest in confidence that God will keep His promise that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church.
He doesn’t give the same assurance to you or your pastor.
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God promiced that the gates of hell shall not prevail against HIS
church, and he gave that promise to all that would choose to belong to HIM, for we are the church.
Thanks.
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NonDenom:
Hi JP
This is the same type of question as one I read in another post.
If the Holy Spirit guides the leaders of your church in the selection of the pope, then how come it isn’t a unanimous vote?
Would you say that the Holy Spirit is guiding each one in a different direction?
Thanks.
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Hello, ND, and thanks for the chance to clarify.

The guidance promised to the Catholic Church does not apply to every individual bishop. They can make errors.

Instead, it applies only when the Church makes an official declaration on a subject of faith and morals. This usually happens only at an ecumenical (worldwide) gathering of bishops in union with the pope.

Peace,
JP-0

So, your election question doesn’t apply because an election is not a statement of faith and morals.
 
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JohnPaul0:
Hello, ND, and thanks for the chance to clarify.

The guidance promised to the Catholic Church does not apply to every individual bishop. They can make errors.

Instead, it applies only when the Church makes an official declaration on a subject of faith and morals. This usually happens only at an ecumenical (worldwide) gathering of bishops in union with the pope.

Peace,
JP-0

So, your election question doesn’t apply because an election is not a statement of faith and morals.
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Exactly. This is why when other people try to dismiss Papal infallibilty by citing the child abuse scandal, they miss the point entirely. Infallibility is not given to local church leaders, nor does it prevent anybody (including the Pope) from committing sin. Even if the Pope himself was guilty of molesting children, it wouldn’t affect this charism. He would have to teach that it was correct in order for it to contradict infallibility.
 
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Singinbeauty:
Yep, that’s me, just the christian equivilant of a hippy child. Peace, Love, and Happiness… :rolleyes: Boy, if that stuff is wrong I don’t know WHAT Jesus had been talking about.

But seriously, do you know me or my convictions? I believe that there is ONE truth and ONE right. And here it is… Are you ready…

JESUS DIED FOR MY SINS AND WASHED MY HEART AND SOUL AS WHITE AS SNOW SO THAT WHEN I SEE GOD ON JUDGEMENT DAY HE WILL WELCOME ME WITH OPEN ARMS. MY LIFE THROUGH CHRIST IS PURE IN GOD’S EYES.

Yes, there are guidelines to follow and I don’t take those lightly. I truly believe that I follow Christ and His teaching according to what I have read and studied. I am not looking for a “feel good” church. It doesn’t have to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. In fact I look for a church that makes me think and challenges my views and makes me study harder into my faith and my relationship with God. I am glad that I don’t let anyone tell me how my relationship with God SHOULD be because I get all my directions from Him. HE guides me, not some normal human. Sure, I mess up. I have been shrinking away from Him for a while now and am back on the right track. I love God with all my heart, mind, and soul. There is no one above Him. Not even my church.

I don’t believe in political correctness when it comes to my relationship with God. I am straight forward about what I believe. I may sound like I am a ‘bleeding heart’ out here but at least I am trying to UNITE christians and not tear them apart… 🙂
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Did I suggest that “peace, love, and happiness” are wrong? No, I did not, so drop that strawman, please.

In Scripture, Paul—a mere human— makes a point of telling others how their relationship SHOULD be (and he’s not the only one). No doubt, there were some Thessalonians and Corinthians who responded, “I am glad that I don’t let anyone tell me how my relationship with God SHOULD be because I get all my directions from Him. HE guides me, not some normal human. You’re divisive, while I’m trying to unite Christians. Get lost, Paul.”
 
The vote of the Cardinals is of free will - guided or not, it’s just an election. So I presume they truly are “picking the person that’s best for the job.”

I’m still pretty sure that Jesus did not say, “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my 8,000+ churches all claiming to have the Truth and the Holy Spirit shall guide them all and contradict them. …Oh, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail because they all follow me anyway.”

Something people shouldn’t do (my opinion, of course) is judge a group based on actions of extremists or certain individuals. You will find a sinner in every church, for all humans are sinners. Should you reject all churches? Of course not! The Catholic Church promises truth, not impeccability (which even the Pope does not possess).

Hope I’m not making any wrong statements here 😃 Jesus is Savior, King of the Nations, Light of the World!
 
We had a Lutheran couple start a church in our neighborhood, however they chose not to include the Lutheran name. Their reasoning was that people would not attend if they knew it had Lutheran teaching. I don’t believe it is around anymore.

Also, we have a non dem. down the street that will not put a cross up. Their reasoning, the cross is to imitiadating. There are no Easter or Christmas services, just singing and hot chocolate drinking. The idea is to invite the unchurched and make it a comfort atmosphere for them. Our Catholic church seems to get a lot of their parishioners for our Easter and Christmas masses. Then they return to the church down the street. Not sure what that is all about. So I don’t know what a non- demon. means.
 
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