A
awantz
Guest
I disagree. The Catholic church is quite denominational. They exclued all other churches and the non-denominational church welcomes people of all denominations.
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J
jack_hawkins
Guest
I know what you’re saying, but the knee-jerk response would be “so we should believe in anything” - and many do!
some things are revelatory of course - otherwise we are not talking about religion we are talking about philosophy I guess
however those revelations together in the faith we call Christianity are internally consistent
A
awantz
Guest
Yes, I attend mass with him as well.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
To you and me perhaps they are consistent; but to a skeptic?
I will leave you alone now
God bless
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
I go to a non-denom church
V
VWcrazy
Guest
The Catholic Church is not denominational at all. All the other churches are simply excluding themselves to the Truth of the Faith.
A
awantz
Guest
Then, why is my Catholic husband welcome at my church, but I am not welcome at his?
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
You know what I feel the same way.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
You are most certainly welcome at your husband’s church.
Since ‘your’ church is nondenominational, you probably feel that all Christians are equally welcomed, or ‘in union’ with your own group.
But your church does not have something which Catholics do–the “Real Presence” of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. We call reception of this Real Presence as Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, ‘communion’–a union with each other.
Since many if not all Protestants do not recognize Christ in the Eucharist, they are not ‘free’ to be in union with Catholics. That is not something that “Catholics” have imposed on them; it is something that, many years ago, the founders of those Protestant groups rejected as truth. For once, over 500 years ago, all Christians WERE Catholics (Eastern or Western) and all Christians believed in the Real Presence. You see, ‘we’ Catholics were not the ones who changed. . .
Any Protestant who becomes convinced of the truth of the Real Presence and all other Catholic teaching may be welcomed into the Catholic Church through the RCIA program and this be in full union, signified by an ability to receive ‘communion.’
However, you are just as welcome at church without ‘converting’ as your husband is at your church–as a member of the Christian faithful, meeting in a place and speaking of and to God. For most Protestants, that is ‘all’ that worship is and they find it sufficient. If it were ‘sufficient’ for Catholics, if we lacked the “Real Presence”, you would find the very same things in the Catholic Church as any Protestant Church–community and 'remembrance–but nothing further.
As it is, there can be no ‘union’ in having those with ‘fullness’ not just ‘accept’ those lacking fullness (we certainly do acknowledge Protestants as Christians, something which is not so often reciprocated!); what you may not realize is that you are asking Catholics to deny the ‘fullness’ of their teaching and to accept as absolutely equal those who ‘lack fullness’. That is not union but falsity. It would be like asking God to deny His Godhood and accept humanity as fully equal to him in possessing equal “godhood” of their own. (which is actually what a lot of people demand today, come to think of it, probably without even realizing it)
Since ‘your’ church is nondenominational, you probably feel that all Christians are equally welcomed, or ‘in union’ with your own group.
But your church does not have something which Catholics do–the “Real Presence” of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. We call reception of this Real Presence as Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, ‘communion’–a union with each other.
Since many if not all Protestants do not recognize Christ in the Eucharist, they are not ‘free’ to be in union with Catholics. That is not something that “Catholics” have imposed on them; it is something that, many years ago, the founders of those Protestant groups rejected as truth. For once, over 500 years ago, all Christians WERE Catholics (Eastern or Western) and all Christians believed in the Real Presence. You see, ‘we’ Catholics were not the ones who changed. . .
Any Protestant who becomes convinced of the truth of the Real Presence and all other Catholic teaching may be welcomed into the Catholic Church through the RCIA program and this be in full union, signified by an ability to receive ‘communion.’
However, you are just as welcome at church without ‘converting’ as your husband is at your church–as a member of the Christian faithful, meeting in a place and speaking of and to God. For most Protestants, that is ‘all’ that worship is and they find it sufficient. If it were ‘sufficient’ for Catholics, if we lacked the “Real Presence”, you would find the very same things in the Catholic Church as any Protestant Church–community and 'remembrance–but nothing further.
As it is, there can be no ‘union’ in having those with ‘fullness’ not just ‘accept’ those lacking fullness (we certainly do acknowledge Protestants as Christians, something which is not so often reciprocated!); what you may not realize is that you are asking Catholics to deny the ‘fullness’ of their teaching and to accept as absolutely equal those who ‘lack fullness’. That is not union but falsity. It would be like asking God to deny His Godhood and accept humanity as fully equal to him in possessing equal “godhood” of their own. (which is actually what a lot of people demand today, come to think of it, probably without even realizing it)
J
jmcrae
Guest
You are most certainly welcome at the Catholic Church.
You have not yet been formally admitted to the Sacraments, which means that you don’t yet go to Confession or receive Holy Communion, and of course, not being a member, you don’t teach or do any other kind of leadership, but everyone is welcome to do everything else.
You can come to Mass, to Rosary and to Divine Office, and you can pray all the prayers and make all the responses.
You can come and socialize with us in the social hall, and you are free to partake of our fellowship meals (which usually consist of something a lot more substantial than just grape juice and a cracker
).You are also free to join our Bible studies and other adult education opportunities - you can even pray the Tessera with the Legion of Mary, if you want to.
I feel sure that the level of welcome to your husband at the non-denom church is exactly the same. He would not be allowed to partake of their holy communion unless he believes what they believe, and he wouldn’t be allowed to take on a leadership position without believing what they believe, but he can do everything else - am I right?
W
Writer
Guest
Right…Almost any time there is a serious problem taking place in a church today, their answer is to break away and form a new church. Not exactly in line with Paul’s many words from 1 Corinthians on Christian unity, is it?
C
Curious
Guest
It is not at all in line with that, nor is it in line with Jesus’ prayer for our unity as well.
A
awantz
Guest
You say I am welcome. Tell that to the people at his church, especially the former Priest, who is now the Priest of a bigger Catholic Church.You are most certainly welcome at the Catholic Church.
You have not yet been formally admitted to the Sacraments, which means that you don’t yet go to Confession or receive Holy Communion, and of course, not being a member, you don’t teach or do any other kind of leadership, but everyone is welcome to do everything else.
You can come to Mass, to Rosary and to Divine Office, and you can pray all the prayers and make all the responses.
You can come and socialize with us in the social hall, and you are free to partake of our fellowship meals (which usually consist of something a lot more substantial than just grape juice and a cracker
You are also free to join our Bible studies and other adult education opportunities - you can even pray the Tessera with the Legion of Mary, if you want to.
I feel sure that the level of welcome to your husband at the non-denom church is exactly the same. He would not be allowed to partake of their holy communion unless he believes what they believe, and he wouldn’t be allowed to take on a leadership position without believing what they believe, but he can do everything else - am I right?
I am going to confession this Lent season. I usually go up during the Eucharist and get a blessing.
I go to mass regularly and I do everything my husband does.
I’ve never been invited to the social hall or anything like that.
The people at my church are always inviting him to different activities, but his church never invites me. He is allowed to partake of Holy Communion at my church and he does. I believe what he believes when it comes to Holy Communion. He can be just as much involved in my church as I am.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Are you being received into the Church?
That’s very good.
That’s also very good.
Do you need a personal invitation? Everyone is welcome to attend any activities that are going on there - you just go.
He needs to know that Catholics are not allowed to do this, since it pretends a unity that does not actually exist.
I actually doubt that, unless by receiving their Holy Communion he has convinced them that he is one of them, and believes what they believe.
But if he were to reveal to them that he is a Catholic, I’m sure the reception would be a little less than enthusiastic if he offers to teach a class, etc.
R
ricmat
Guest
I think the “theological” issues have been addressed in the above posts, but I’ll comment on the “social” issues.
I’m the first to admit that Catholics are poor (very poor) evangelists. Whereas a new face in a protestant church may be a potential convert, Catholics are perhaps overly accustomed to strange faces in the congregation. Usually people from out of town fulfilling their Sunday obligations.
And many Catholic churches have so many parishoners that you can’t possibly recognize everybody - you just assume that a stranger is someone who normally goes to another mass.
It does take courage to continue to go with your husband even if you don’t feel totally welcome. I admire you for that.
Does your husband actually know how you feel? If not, maybe you could ask him to get you both involved in some parish activities.
PS Although I currently live in SoCal, I spent some time in Kalamazoo and Warsaw, IN. The Goshen area is very nice…wish I could live there!
D
DB_AND_ALI
Guest
I could not agree with you more…if only more protestants would realise that disunity is the devils work ! It is mind boggling to think that some protestant churches refuse to see us as christians…some seem to resemble cults to me. But for me personally it’s the hundreds of differing and sometimes conflicting doctrines that i find totally unsettling. Our church may be conservative in some respects , but what you get is what you see.God bless Christians (and non-Christians for that matter).
But seriously, if there is ‘truth’ in a religion, it is ‘truth’ whether or not it makes sense to me, or fits my own limited, human desires and knowledge and personal ‘choice’ of what I think '‘makes sense to me’–as though “I” am the only person on earth and if I don’t get it, well, it just ‘can’t be so’.
So just as a general well-wishing, pray long and hard about whether you (general you, not directed specifically at anyone) want to do God’s will, whether or not it makes ‘sense’ to you, or whether you want to pick what ‘makes sense’ to you and then demand that God accommodate to it.
I find that religions which seem to offer ‘all the answers’ appear to do so simply to those who don’t ask ‘all’ the questions. When a question comes up which hadn’t been ‘asked’, or when somebody comes up with a different answer, it comes as a shock. How easy it is to go with the pleasant, the reassuring, the ‘sensible’, the easy way.
Trouble is, throughout Scripture and throughout the history of the church, the ‘easy’ way is never really all that easy. There is always a ‘yoke’; there is always a cross.
Too many want to bypass the idea that they need a personal cross. Oh, they’re more than ready to accept Jesus’s cross–because He’s “done it” and they can just relax, bound for heaven. Everything is optional, pretty much; pick and choose, go through the cafeteria, don’t like Sunday service? Don’t have to go. Don’t like hell-fire and brimstone? Don’t need to hear it. etc. etc.
Imagine the idea that our cross might just, possibly, have to do with rejecting something that keeps us from God. The world, the flesh, and the devil. . .the unholy three. Feeling uncomfortable about sexual sin? The world tells us, “Relax, if you don’t think it’s sinful, it isn’t.”
Christ tells us, “Take up your cross and follow me.”
Which is easier? I think you know the answer. Which is right? Again, I think you know the answer. And those answers differ, don’t they?
Who will you choose to follow: Christ and His Church, or those who want Christ but on their terms, God love them? Some people may find Christ outside the Catholic Church (God bless them), but why make things harder than they need to be? I know they want to fully know God, these wonderful people who are a part of the body of Christ and whom we love deeply as brothers and sisters.
I extend the hands of welcome to all, Catholic, nondenominational, non-Catholic Christian “other”, nonChristian. I know there isn’t an ‘easy’ way to say, “I firmly believe and trust in Christ and His Church” without the obvious inference that any ‘other’ church or belief is wrong in some way. But heck, every one of us is ‘wrong’ at one time or another and it doesn’t make us stupid, or unworthy, or anything like that. It makes us human. We need God’s help. Lately I know my fellow Christians have become more aware that there is more that ‘unites’ us than divides us, and as the Devil is well aware, he is using that consciousness to try to bring out the ‘division’. He’s trying to make each ‘group’ more suspicious of the other, more entrenched in holding onto grudges, because he is afraid that if people let go of the prejudice that has long existed by Protestant denominations toward the Catholic faith (not individual Protestants and individual Catholics, mind you), they would indeed find the eternal truth of Catholicism and we would be a united force for good the like of which the world has not yet seen and cannot imagine.
J
jack_hawkins
Guest
If only Catholics would realise their attitude to Protestants is a factor in disunity as well!
G
guanophore
Guest
If I may ask, why would you no longer consider yourself “Pentecostal”?
G
guanophore
Guest
Not to excuse those Catholics who are a disgrace to the faith, why NOT avoid the Catholic Church if it is easier? If a person can get their needs met without having to wrestle with offensive or apparently impossible dogma, doesn’t it make more sense to float downstream, instead of swimming upstream? If a persons convictions can be sustained elsewhere, I don’t see why anyone would struggle with Catholocism.
J
jack_hawkins
Guest
I haven’t been Pentecostal for years - I saw things that were not of the Lord.
An epileptic lady being “exorcised”.
A lady whom it was prophesied that she would dance again after she was confined to a wheelchair with Motor Neurone Disease.
Also I found it was too much for well-off middle class people who had plenty to be happy about. They couldn’t deal with some of the realities of life IMO eg my mother’s cancer.
An epileptic lady being “exorcised”.
A lady whom it was prophesied that she would dance again after she was confined to a wheelchair with Motor Neurone Disease.
Also I found it was too much for well-off middle class people who had plenty to be happy about. They couldn’t deal with some of the realities of life IMO eg my mother’s cancer.
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