Non-denominational Christians

[jmcrae]

Hi,
So you are saying that someone has to be a member of the CC to be forgiven?

They have to be a member of the Catholic Church to make use of the Catholic Church’s Sacraments.

I have no idea why someone who does not believe in the Catholic Church would even want to use them, since apparently we are so superstitious and unbiblical, etc. according to them.

 

[jmcrae]

I will let you know.

Thank You

He goes to Church with me just as much as I go with him. His church knows and they seem to have no problem with it.

They are commited to their teachins. It is just that the Catholic teachings are very similar to ours. He doesn’t teach Catholicisim to them. They let him work with the kids, usher, be a greeter, and other things like that.

A non-Catholic could be an usher or a greeter in the Catholic Church, too, and you could also join the choir, if you wanted to.

The only things you wouldn’t be allowed to do would be teaching ministries, and anything where it would be expected of you to participate in the Sacraments in order to do that job, such as helping to distribute Holy Communion, or anything else that happens up on the Altar, since we are supposed to make a good Sacramental Confession before we do any kind of service on the Altar, such as reading, ringing the bells, holding the book, or anything else like that.

 

[awantz]

I am not talking about individuals. When did an entire denomination forswear its heresies, attempt to reunite with the Church, and was refused?

I could ask you the same thing about the Catholic Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

They have to be a member of the Catholic Church to make use of the Catholic Church’s Sacraments.

I have no idea why someone who does not believe in the Catholic Church would even want to use them, since apparently we are so superstitious and unbiblical, etc. according to them.

Hi,
I think I may have misunderstood your first comment. Explain again reconciliation.

 

[awantz]

I am sad that your parish has not made you feel more welcomed. But, I also am surprised to hear you say that you believe as your husband does about Holy Communion. What does he believe, and how is that different than what is taught at your church?

We both believe that the Holy Communion is the actual body and blood of a Christ. That is what my church believes as well.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
I think I may have misunderstood your first comment. Explain again reconciliation.

From my website at jmcrae.christian.net —

The seven Sacraments of the Church are:

1. Baptism
2. Confirmation
3. Holy Communion
4. Holy Orders
5. Marriage
6. Penance
7. Last Anointing

The Sacraments are outward signs instituted by Christ to give grace. A proper disposition (including membership in the Catholic Church, at least the Catechumenate or other form of instructions in the faith) is necessary before receiving the Sacraments.

The Sacraments are interconnected and interdependent. Their goal is to provide us with the means to a personal and meaningful relationship with Christ.

…]

Penance

The Sacrament of Penance is also known as Confession, and as the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is one of two healing Sacraments in the Church. (The other is the Sacrament of Last Anointing.) The Sacraments of Healing can be repeated as often as necessary.

The ordinary minister of the Sacrament of Penance is the priest. The penitent approaches the priest in a private space (usually a Confessional or Reconciliation room, which is specifically designed for privacy, but any private space where they will not be overheard is acceptable) and makes a straightforward account of his sins to the priest within the context of a short liturgy that contains various short prayers, dialogue, and often, a short reading from Scripture.

Jesus established the Sacrament of Reconciliation when He healed the paralyzed man through the forgiveness of his sins. This is recorded in Matthew 9:1-8; Luke 5:18-26; and Mark 2:1-12.

Jesus authorized the Apostles to continue this work in Matthew 18:18, after first giving it to Peter as part of his Petrine ministry in 16:19. He provided them with the ability to do so in John 20:22f. St. Paul refers to the Church’s ministry of Reconciliation in II Corinthians 5:18-20.

…]

 

[jmcrae]

I could ask you the same thing about the Catholic Church.

You think that we should become reunited with Temple Judaism?

Only one problem with that - Temple Judaism ceased to exist after we split from them.

 

[awantz]

You think that we should become reunited with Temple Judaism?

Only one problem with that - Temple Judaism ceased to exist after we split from them.

What is Temple Judaism?

 

[Janet_S]

Hi,
I think I may have misunderstood your first comment. Explain again reconciliation.

When we Catholics talk about reconciliation, we are talking about a sacrament. This sacrament is also known as penance or confession. Since sacraments are administered licitly only to Catholic members of the Christian faithful by Catholic ministers, non-Catholic Christians cannot receive absolution in the sacrament of reconciliation.

As an aside, I have heard that some non-Catholics go to confession and discuss their sins with the priest. Fr Benedict Groeschel, who lives in NYC, says that he has Jewish people come to confession. There is no problem with the priest listening to their sins; however, he cannot give absolution to non-Catholics. I think this just goes to show how necessary it is for people to talk about their sins. If you don’t have a confessional, where do you go? Many people have replaced the confessional with a bar or a psychologist’s office. Also remember, the priest absolutely cannot repeat what you tell him in confession. This is strictly enforced.

This is what the CC believes about the Sacraments and who can licitly receive them:
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM

Can. 840 The sacraments of the New Testament were instituted by Christ the Lord and entrusted to the Church.

As actions of Christ and the Church, they are signs and means which express and strengthen the faith, render worship to God, and effect the sanctification of humanity and thus contribute in the greatest way to establish, strengthen, and manifest ecclesiastical communion. Accordingly, in the celebration of the sacraments the sacred ministers and the other members of the Christian faithful must use the greatest veneration and necessary diligence.

Can. 842 §1. A person who has not received baptism cannot be admitted validly to the other sacraments.

§2. The sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and the Most Holy Eucharist are interrelated in such a way that they are required for full Christian initiation.

Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE (Reconciliation) (Cann. 959 - 997)

Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning.

 

[guanophore]

On a more serious note (than my previous post, that is), it is true that Catholic churches are notoriously “cool” in their fellowship. I’ve been actually TRYING to convert for a month or so, and can’t get anyone at the church to get back to me.

I thought it was very funny! Why are you trying to convert, if your church is prospering so well? It is a bad time of year to take in new converts. Too late for Easter, to early to start for next time.

 

[guanophore]

.

They are commited to their teachins. It is just that the Catholic teachings are very similar to ours. He doesn’t teach Catholicisim to them. They let him work with the kids, usher, be a greeter, and other things like that.

Which teachings would those be?

 

[Janet_S]

Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?

Now I’m really confused. I have seen you discuss Catholicism on a few other threads, and you said you are enrolled in RCIA and will be joining the CC. This makes no sense if you feel the way you describe above.

Are you having second thoughts about joining the CC or are you just throwing out ideas? I noticed on other threads that you never, ever agree with anything the CC teaches. Is this just your style–approaching things from a skeptical viewpoint? Or do none of the CC’s teachings make sense to you?

If you really do feel this way, you are not ready to become a Catholic. Why not continue to study and postpone your decision to join the Church.

 

[guanophore]

They have to be a member of the Catholic Church to make use of the Catholic Church’s Sacraments.

I have no idea why someone who does not believe in the Catholic Church would even want to use them, since apparently we are so superstitious and unbiblical, etc. according to them.

She clearly values the sacrament, or she would not want to go. I don’t think she believes it is superstitious at all. I think there are a number of people that want to partake of the sacraments. I just came from another thread where there were a lot of indignant people that could not be rec’d for communion that thought they should be.

 

[guanophore]

Originally Posted by jmcrae
I am not talking about individuals. When did an entire denomination forswear its heresies, attempt to reunite with the Church, and was refused?

I could ask you the same thing about the Catholic Church.

Which are the heresies that you think should be abandoned by the Catholics?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?

Whatever church even if independent should answer to another, even non denominationals. If they answer to no one then its a problem.

But in light of the thread and the discussions, I always remember a muslim woman who believes in Jesus but has to secretly worship as her life would be in danger. She will never attend a regular church of any sort. So I guess shes not a christian . . .

 

[levi86]

Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?

Could you (or anyone who adheres to this form of “christianity”} please suggest a list of doctrines or theological beliefs a non denominational Christian must adhere to?

 

[guanophore]

Hi,
I think I may have misunderstood your first comment. Explain again reconciliation.

No, you understood it. The sacrament of reconciliation (confession) is where Catholics receive absolution from sins.

 

[guanophore]

What is Temple Judaism?

It was the religion into which Jesus was born. The one the first Catholics were ejected from because of their beliefs in Him.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Could you (or anyone who adheres to this form of “christianity”} please suggest a list of doctrines or theological beliefs a non denominational Christian must adhere to?

Read “Mere Christianity” - and it isn’t “christianity” but Christianity.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Now I’m really confused. I have seen you discuss Catholicism on a few other threads, and you said you are enrolled in RCIA and will be joining the CC. This makes no sense if you feel the way you describe above.

Are you having second thoughts about joining the CC or are you just throwing out ideas? I noticed on other threads that you never, ever agree with anything the CC teaches. Is this just your style–approaching things from a skeptical viewpoint? Or do none of the CC’s teachings make sense to you?

If you really do feel this way, you are not ready to become a Catholic. Why not continue to study and postpone your decision to join the Church.

There’s plenty (the vast majority) in the CC I agree with - it’s just I post about the stuff I have difficulties with, looking for clarification.
Mary - no problem
Transubstantiation - OK with that, still feels a bit funny but OK with that
Confession - cool
Reverence - great
Framework - great
Rosary - managed to get to grips with that

Problem areas
biomedical - some inconsistencies
which then follows on as a conseequence that I have problems with the authority side
So the problem areas considerably smaller than the things I love about the CC

You see, I don’t know any Catholics outside the RCIA group (apart from my wife) so here is where I can bounce ideas around. I have come to the place where I know what I want now. I will not be a Traditionalist Catholic, but a Catholic like my wife.
Actually I asked God for a sign, and he gave me a pretty clear one. Quite an answer to prayer.