Non-denominational Christians

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I find it fascinating that posters have returned again and again to what the Church says, and their understanding of it. There has been virtually no discussion of the pandemic, and its global and humanitarian implications for us as Christians, except in terms of condoms and all that involves.
I it may be impossible, for people of faith, to have discussion about anything of value apart from that foundation.
When you were confronted by the fall of the Twin Towers in New York, how did you react? Was your first reaction to say, wait, wait, let me think about how Christ and the Vatican would tell me to deal with this?
Shamefully, no. I was in shock and denial for a long time.
Or do you think those first firemen, many of them Irish and firmly Catholic, raced up those stairs to save as many lives as they could, in the end losing their own lives? They reacted to a crisis, responded, did what they could do, and died doing it.
I honor them for their sacrifice, and pray that if I am ever called upon to do likewise, I will be able to throw myself with such courage and selfless abandon.
Who is prepared to die for humanity, as Christ did? Or must we wait for instruction? Must we look to our own souls first, and then the lives and souls of others?
Christ already died for humanity, so there is no death we can give that will offer more. Our task is to make humanity aware of the value of His death to each and every one. If our message does not proceed from faith, it will be empty. What Jesus is more concerned about is our eternal life, not our temporal life. He does not want people to die in their sins, whether they are using a condom or not!
Oh Guan, we do not have natives…
I don’t mean to be disrespectful in asking that. There are indiginious tribes where I live with major cultural differences from Europeans. I had a young Navajo boy pick a figtht the other day becuase they were going to compulse him to have his hair cut after dark, and he believed he would be infested by a ghost. I am painfully aware that I do not understand many cultures. When you speak about roaming gang rapes and men believing they can get rid of AIDS by having intercourse with a young (pure?) girl I am speculating that this belief comes from a culture very different than mine.
As I understand it, the Catholic Church is growing faster in Africa than anywhere else. But when I say that the Catholic Church is not monolithic, I intend that explicitly to mean that despite the Vatican’s wishes and best efforts, local belief is developed locally. Yes, we hope that the Bishop has the correct message from Rome… But in the chaos that is Africa… People believe, they live in that belief in Jesus, meetings start with prayer – and usually hymns. We sing our way through degradation and death with praises to God and Christ.Our evangelical churches provide hope for the afterlife, when pain will be gone, and all that is wished for is given by our blessed Christ, Lord Jesus.
Is the concept of chastity found anywhere?
I am trying to find employment, books, learning opportunities, something to think about for a lovely 30 year old man. What does he do in his lonely room, when he is stuck there 24 hours a day? Read his Bible. Our Church is trying to help – but he is only one of of the millions of lost people.
I sometimes wish that I could sit around long enough to get bored. There is just too much to do!
But we know, from experience on university campuses across Africa, that kids get pretty drunk after two beers. Answer: remove all liquor outlets from all campuses. That has been the first reaction, along with setting up counseling and testing centres. But then along come the drugs. We are now into tik, a chemical compound that is easily made anywhere, and readily available to anyone, at very small cost. Schools are rife with drugs, because of the greed of the dealers, and schools are dangerous places to be for many students. Where do we go from here? My mind boggles.
That is why I say that faith in Christ is the best cure. It is not ulitimately effective to contrive the environment to control behavior. If kids want drugs and alcohol, they will find them. It is change on the inside that is lasting and effective. By that I don’t mean to say that steps like the one you have outlined should not be taken, just that they are only “half measures” that will not address the ulitimate source of wrongdoing, which is in the human heart.
 
For those that think they are 100% effective I think you will find 2-3% of users that would disagree. The Pill isn’t 100% either. Family planning is not 100% either. The only thing that is 100% effective against pregnancy and the transmission of disease is abstinence.
Unless you are Mariam Bat Elizabet… 😉

Seriously, though, good post.
 
Unless you are Mariam Bat Elizabet… 😉

Seriously, though, good post.
it’s not good at all
if you’re going to argue about the morality, argue about the morality
don’t argue about the efficacy esp with cherry-picked figures out of context, used without the necessary scientific knowledge and understanding
and above all, don’t employ the illogical stance that anything less than 100% absolute protection is pointless - I mean do any of you guys dare risk crossing the road???
 
WRONG!!! - ever heard of vertical transmission?
how does Hep B most commonly get spread?
what was bejel?
how do neonates get HIV and “the snuffles”?
Use of illegal drugs by needle is also a mortal sin. If chastity and abstaining from drugs are taught, this would drastically cut down the numbers of people with HIV and Hep B. Then it would not be spread to babies.
 
Sure, we just don’t run in front of a speeding dump truck each time we do it and declare it a safer way to cross the street.
Or put helmets on children and illiterate people and just hope for the best, instead of teaching them what the signs mean, and holding their hands until they understand the proper way to stay safe.
 
it’s not good at all
if you’re going to argue about the morality, argue about the morality
don’t argue about the efficacy esp with cherry-picked figures out of context, used without the necessary scientific knowledge and understanding
and above all, don’t employ the illogical stance that anything less than 100% absolute protection is pointless - I mean do any of you guys dare risk crossing the road???
Jack,

My post was in response to your remarks that holes just don’t happen in the manufacture of condoms. I think the intent of the original post was to say that condoms are not 100% effective ergo your remarks above are off point.

There is no such thing as absolute protection (beyond abstinence). I’d be happy to discuss the morality of contraception but I don’t know your frame of reference, are you a Catholic, lapsed Catholic, non-denominational Christian, atheist, agnostsic, gnostic or what. One thing for sure, your passionate about this issu.

Iowa Mike
 
Use of illegal drugs by needle is also a mortal sin. If chastity and abstaining from drugs are taught, this would drastically cut down the numbers of people with HIV and Hep B. Then it would not be spread to babies.
you have just shown that you didn’t understand what I said at all, and don’t understand about parenteral transmission
but you continue to comment on issues that you are misinformed about:rolleyes:
 
you have just shown that you didn’t understand what I said at all, and don’t understand about parenteral transmission
but you continue to comment on issues that you are misinformed about:rolleyes:
The only way to get these diseases is by dirty needles, sex, or infection of a baby from its mother. Eliminate unchastity and drug abuse, and the number of mothers infected will decrease, hence fewer babies born with the diseases. There are also anti-viral drugs that can be given to mothers that greatly reduce the transmission of HIV to their babies.
 
Jack,

My post was in response to your remarks that holes just don’t happen in the manufacture of condoms. I think the intent of the original post was to say that condoms are not 100% effective ergo your remarks above are off point.

There is no such thing as absolute protection (beyond abstinence). I’d be happy to discuss the morality of contraception but I don’t know your frame of reference, are you a Catholic, lapsed Catholic, non-denominational Christian, atheist, agnostsic, gnostic or what. One thing for sure, your passionate about this issu.

Iowa Mike
I’m confused
I did not say that condoms are perfect at any stage - just that this myth about condoms being full of holes should be stamped out
condoms are efficient in reducing transmission of HIV
even abstinence doesn’t provide absolute protection since HIV is not just sexually transmitted but parenterally transmitted
therefore there are a few ways of contracting HIV thru no fault of your own
don’t you think it’s imitating Christ to be want people to be protected from the suffering of AIDS??? isn’t that something to be passionate about it?
have you treated people with AIDS? could you understand that people who have would be passionate about it?
 
is that 100% effective?
cos if it isn’t according to the logic here, then it is pointless doing it:)
It isn’t a Mortal Sin to cross the street, so if I got hit by a car and killed, I’d still get to go to Heaven. 😃

All of us will die. What we will die of is almost beside the point - the important thing is, where will we go from there? If we die in Mortal Sin, we will go to Hell. Otherwise, we will go to Heaven.
 
even abstinence doesn’t provide absolute protection since HIV is not just sexually transmitted but parenterally transmitted
therefore there are a few ways of contracting HIV thru no fault of your own
don’t you think it’s imitating Christ to be want people to be protected from the suffering of AIDS???
Once these people have AIDS, giving them condoms is not going to prevent their suffering. Are you suggesting that everyone must have sex in order to not suffer? People with or without AIDS need to practice chastity.
 
It isn’t a Mortal Sin to cross the street, so if I got hit by a car and killed, I’d still get to go to Heaven. 😃

All of us will die. What we will die of is almost beside the point - the important thing is, where will we go from there? If we die in Mortal Sin, we will go to Hell. Otherwise, we will go to Heaven.
So the words of Paul to live is Christ, to die is gain are wrong? People who have joined the Catholic Church are better off dying before they can fall into error?
 
Once these people have AIDS, giving them condoms is not going to prevent their suffering. Are you suggesting that everyone must have sex in order to not suffer? People with or without AIDS need to practice chastity.
You’ve totally lost me there. Condoms prevent HIV. Wearing condoms stops other people suffering HIV. That’s pretty simple isn’t it?
You can’t seem to grasp the issues here.
What do you understand about retroviruses? Do you understand why a husband and wife both with HIV still need to use condoms for intercourse?
 
So the words of Paul to live is Christ, to die is gain are wrong? People who have joined the Catholic Church are better off dying before they can fall into error?
Do you think Christ would have us sin to save our life? Is that the message here? Is the only choice sin and live or not sin and die?
 
you have just shown that you didn’t understand what I said at all, and don’t understand about parenteral transmission
but you continue to comment on issues that you are misinformed about:rolleyes:
Jack,

How many lay people would really know about parenteral transmission…what you think that is common term amoung lay people when they discuss HIV? As a doctor isn’t this kind of posturing dishonest and beneath you?

Why are you so angry?

Iowa Mike
 
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