Non-denominational

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Do you find it a tad bit rude and ironic that you have the effrontery to criticize me for criticizing someone?

Why don’t you read Matthew 7:5-

“Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” -DR

-before you worry about chastising me on how I express my opinion.

Yes, I could very easily have been more rude and arrogant, but I chose not to. If you don’t like my opinion, that’s your problem. I didn’t realize I had to receive your approval on how I may express my opinion.
I never said you needed my approval. You were very rude in your response, and I simply asked you was that really necessary. If I had said what you said I would hope someone would alert me to the fact that I wasn’t being very Christ-like. You see, before that whole “mote” (“speck” for us non-catholics) idea I seem to recall the whole idea of doing unto others as you would have done to you. If you don’t mind people treating you like that, then I am sure would oblige you. And the fact that you even admit you were being arrogant in the first place should throw up a warning sign. God humbles the proud, especially those who pat themselves on the back for being rude and arrogant, but hey, you kept it within reason, right?
 
I never said you needed my approval. You were very rude in your response, and I simply asked you was that really necessary. If I had said what you said I would hope someone would alert me to the fact that I wasn’t being very Christ-like. You see, before that whole “mote” (“speck” for us non-catholics) idea I seem to recall the whole idea of doing unto others as you would have done to you. If you don’t mind people treating you like that, then I am sure would oblige you. And the fact that you even admit you were being arrogant in the first place should throw up a warning sign. God humbles the proud, especially those who pat themselves on the back for being rude and arrogant, but hey, you kept it within reason, right?
I guess the concept of sarcasm is foreign to you? I wasn’t admitting to being arrogant, I was being sarcastic to you. It is entirely your opinion on whether or not I was rude to someone else. Also, it is not your place to correct my opinion, or how said opinion is expressed. You being rude to me is no different than your perception of me being rude to someone else. Therefore, you can’t brush off Matthew 7:5 because it inconveniences you. So if I ask a question so blatantly open and vague, then I expect responses similar to the response I offered. It is well within my right to convey my opinion in any manner I see fit. Whether or not that complies with a “feel-good” response worthy of your approval is irrelevant. Truth of the matter is I said the exact same thing the 2nd poster said, only I was more matter of fact.

Now are you going to contribute to this thread or is your sole purpose to derail it and castigate me?
 
Other than a commitment to God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and everything Jesus speaks of in the Bible?
You are entitled to your opinions sir, but wrong none the less. I know many non-denom christians who show more commitment and more devotion to Christ than some who claim to be catholic. It amazes me how you can sit there and pretend to be God, obviously you THINK you know what you are talking about.

Talk about hypocritcal… You can be anti-protestant but if a non-catholic would come in here and spout the exact same words about catholocism you would be one of the first to defend it. I would say it is YOU who needs to read Matthew 7, not just the 5th verse but the entire chapter, wait - scratch that - how about opening the bible and actually READING it as it applies to you? You will get WAY more out of it rather than using it to thump others on the head with. 🤷 Just a thought…
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followerofJesus:
What is the difference between Catholic beliefs and non-denominational beliefs?
While yes, there are many differences, we can agree on one thing. Christ is the ONLY way to God the Father. Amen to that! I am non-denom, and if you want more than anti-protestant answers (like the one I quoted above) you can PM me and we will have a great chat! As long as you are open to the answers I give and not just here with preconceived notions and ideas and want to bash protestants.

There may be differences but to many catholics and protestants alike we are even more the same. 🙂 Those who wish to follow Christ know who their brothers and sisters are.
 
You are entitled to your opinions sir, but wrong none the less.

Talk about arrogance. It’s OK that you can tell me my opinion is wrong? That’s OK in your eyes?

I know many non-denom christians who show more commitment and more devotion to Christ than some who claim to be catholic. It amazes me how you can sit there and pretend to be God, obviously you THINK you know what you are talking about.

Here’s another stroke of your blatant arrogance. You have the audacity to claim I am pretending to be God? It’s obvious to many of us who THINKS they know what they are talking about

Talk about hypocritcal… You can be anti-protestant Can I? Because according to you, those actions make one “think they are GOD”. So which is it?

but if a non-catholic would come in here and spout the exact same words about catholocism you would be one of the first to defend it.

You are right for a number of reasons. Two of which are 1) Catholicism is the true and original faith, and 2) Scriptural roots prove Catholicism. But you knew that correct? because you are a biblical theologian.

I would say it is YOU who needs to read Matthew 7, not just the 5th verse but the entire chapter, wait - scratch that - how about opening the bible and actually READING it as it applies to you?

I read it every day, along with prayer and meditation.

You will get WAY more out of it rather than using it to thump others on the head with. 🤷 Just a thought…

What I got out of it was/is the truth, and the truth is Catholicism, not some new-age, feel-good, I’m OK, you’re OK, no one is a sinner delusion.
 
reteeks21;:
Could you be anymore rude or arrogant?
It was a very blunt assertion of what the differences are, from a Traditional Catholic POV.

I’ll also point out that Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon had a somewhat similar stock answer to questions asked of them.

xan

jonathon
 
Taking in account that the whole denominational thing started with the Reformation and that there were no stable Christian belief them, in fact there was no New Testament them there is technically true.
The denominational thing started long before the Reformation.

Ante-Nicene Fathers, The Nicene Fathers, and The Post-Nicene Fathers provide evidence that there was a stable Christian belief prior to the Reformation.

xan

jonathon
 
I attended a nondenominational church for a long time and basically it is a church where you can choose any doctrine from all the other denominations and accept whatever you want. The pastor at the church would sometimes start his sermons by saying he is going to give what he believes is correct but you should always read what the bible says and decide for yourself what you believe. They make it very easy to be a christian but on the positive side they are really good at getting people involved in service in their community and in missions. I admit that this church really got me into reading and studying the Bible which then by the grace of God led me back to the Catholic church where I am really fed the word of God.
I have to wonder how well some of my “Catholic” beliefs would be welcomed at such a Church? Would they still take the, “believe whatever doctrine you wish, and reject what you don’t wish to believe” attitude? Especially when I come in asking to have my infant child baptized, or how I think they should partake in the Eucharist (which is the Body and Blood of our Lord) in a more worthy manner?

God bless
 
A rare example of real nomdenominational church:
I attended a nondenominational church for a long time and basically it is a church where you can choose any doctrine from all the other denominations and accept whatever you want. The pastor at the church would sometimes start his sermons by saying he is going to give what he believes is correct but you should always read what the bible says and decide for yourself what you believe. They make it very easy to be a christian but on the positive side they are really good at getting people involved in service in their community and in missions. I admit that this church really got me into reading and studying the Bible which then by the grace of God led me back to the Catholic church where I am really fed the word of God.
Hisalone idea or a nondenomination is more like fundamentalist Baptist without that name:
As a nonDenominational I believe that the present Roman Catholic Church does not resmble the congregation that Jesus established. Throughout the centuries this institution has morphized to were it is today. Many of the teachings are unbiblical ie purgatory, celibate prieshood, tradition over scripture, Marian doctrines, etc etc
Of course that idea of nondenomination is very very fundamentalist protestant and not backed by history. No Sola Scriptura them.
 
As a nonDenominational I believe that the present Roman Catholic Church does not resmble the congregation that Jesus established. Throughout the centuries this institution has morphized to were it is today. Many of the teachings are unbiblical ie purgatory, celibate prieshood, tradition over scripture, Marian doctrines, etc etc
Laudatur Iesus Christus.

This is the sort of disagreement that my previous post described. I would like to offer an alternate view, from the Church’s perspective:

Moses left Egypt with some “600,000” families to establish the “Church of Israel,” on Pentecost at Mount Sinai. Descendants of these attacked and conquered the Holy Land. Eventually the Davidic Kingdom was established, reaching its peak under Solomon, who was so powerful that none of his neighbors dared attack him. (This allowed him to build the Temple in Jerusalem.) This kingdom collapsed and civil war divided it into two kingdoms, Israel and Judea. The latter containing Jerusalem and associated with the line of David. These upheavals eventually dispersed the “Church of Israel” to the four corners of the Mediterranean world.

Throughout this long history, the religious priesthood established under Moses continued and grew. The Temple worship was established in Jerusalem as prescribed and foreseen by Moses. At the time of Christ, some two to three million Jewish worshipers converged on Jerusalem three times each year, for the major feasts. These millions came from all corners of the Empire and beyond. A major Jewish center in Alexandria, Egypt, rivaled the population of Jews in Palestine.

This massive, international religion was orchestrated and managed by the High Priest, priests, and Levites who conducted the affairs of the Temple at Jerusalem, the only place of true sacrifice. These priests also had a strong role in the civil government of the people of Israel.

Those whom Christ instituted through His ministry were the new rulers, the new “management team,” intended not only to take over and perfect this multi-million-member religion but to expand it without limit. Jesus came to complete the Law and to extend the “Church of Israel” to include all of the peoples of the world. Quite naturally the name for this “New Israel,” came to be the “Catholic Church” (Greek for “Church of the Whole).

When one considers what Jesus intended His Church to do, it is logical and satisfying to see how the same hierarchy and mode of government continues to function world-wide as it did in the Acts of the Apostles. To appreciate this continuity, one has only to imagine what the Apostolic Church of Acts, quite necessarily, would look like, now that the 120 of the Upper Room are not 3,120, as on evening of Pentecost, but 1.2 Billion spread everywhere on the earth.

I submit that the Catholic Church looks as one would reasonably expect it to look.*

As to the “doctrinal” issues mentioned, this too seems contiguous between the beginning and the present. The Apostle John included the following reminder in his Gospel:

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of (his) disciples that are not written in this book. But these are written that you may (come to) believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name. (John (NAB) 20:30.)

Reading this comment, one should not be surprised that not everything taught in the Church was written down. It is also good to note that, as the “Messiah,” Jesus’ role as the Davidic King and successor to Moses is implied in John’s text itself. Christ’s “management team” had a big job, worldwide governance and evangelization.

St. Paul also forestalls any surprise at the need for teachings which were not all written in the Scriptures:

To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2Thessalonians (RSV) 2:14-15.)

The “gospel,” as Paul makes clear, is intended to save, but it is not contained entirely in the writings. This was true in the beginning as it is now.

Finally, as to doctrines that surprise some because they are not explicitly taught in the Scriptures, one should not be surprised by this either: there is more to learn than the Bible can tell:

I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. (John (RSV) 16:12.)

Again, this doctrinal state of affairs looks about as one would reasonably expect. The successors of the Apostles still need to remind the faithful that not everything needed to live the gospel is written in the texts.

Spiritus Sapientiae nobiscum.

John Hiner

*If one wants a charming image of St. Peter using the most advanced technology available to approve and publish the Gospels, read Mr. Dennis Barton’s account: The Authors of the Gospels (According to the Clementine Tradition), churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/authors-gospels.pdf.
 
Talk about arrogance. It’s OK that you can tell me my opinion is wrong? That’s OK in your eyes?
Yes, it is ok for me to say that… because your sweeping generalization is just plain wrong. Don’t pretend to know about things you just aren’t experianced in. You could say what you said about SOME non-denoms but to say that about the whole of us is just plain wrong… Sorry if that offends you… 🤷 Though you weren’t worried about offending others, why you would be offended by my comments is unreal.
Here’s another stroke of your blatant arrogance. You have the audacity to claim I am pretending to be God? It’s obvious to many of us who THINKS they know what they are talking about
Did you make the claim that the difference in what catholics and non-denoms believe was because of the following:

Other than a commitment to God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and everything Jesus speaks of in the Bible?

Meaning we have none of that and you have all of it? How do you know of our commitment? You wouldn’t unless you are God. Hence my comment. Not arrogance, just simple deduction my dear Watson… 🤷 So since you aren’t God then don’t make the assumption that you know of the level of commitment another person has.
Can I? Because according to you, those actions make one “think they are GOD”. So which is it?
Obviously you think it is ok to be anti-protestant. Your post makes it perfectly clear. I didn’t say it was ok, or that I was condoning being anti-protestant, just that you think you can be but would debate or dislike anyone who was anti-catholic. Kind of hypocritcal in my book.
You are right for a number of reasons. Two of which are 1) Catholicism is the true and original faith, and 2) Scriptural roots prove Catholicism. But you knew that correct? because you are a biblical theologian.
Well at least you admit you are anti-protestant. Honesty is a good virtue. :rolleyes:
  1. Catholicism is the true and original faith
    So you say. I have yet to see this for myself. I am here to understand catholocism so who knows, maybe that is where God is leading me. BUT it does not give you the right to assume and judge my heart and commitment.
  2. Scriptural roots prove Catholicism. But you knew that correct? because you are a biblical theologian
    I have not seen the proof you speak of for several beliefs within catholocism. I am not saying it exists, just I haven’t seen it.
And I NEVER claim to be a theologian. Don’t put words in my mouth mister… 😉
I read it every day, along with prayer and meditation.
It is not obvious…
not some new-age, feel-good, I’m OK, you’re OK, no one is a sinner delusion.
Who said / believes this???
 
Mr. Huber, thank you for your edifying contributions to this thread, I have found them very helpful, even though I am already convinced of the Catholic position. I hope that more of what you’ve offered could serve to moderate some of the more emotional reactions we’ve seen.
 
SIngingbeauty, I have to thank you. Your pugnacity makes me laugh-You are a hypocrite.
Yes, it is ok for me to say that…

No, it is not OK for you to say that. You don’t even recognize your hypocrisy do you?

because your sweeping generalization is just plain wrong.

So that makes it OK with you? Two “wrongs” make a right? It’s OK if YOU do it but no one else. What makes me laugh is you cannot recognize this.

Don’t pretend to know about things you just aren’t experianced in.

How do you know what I am experienced in?? Let me let you in on a little clue-YOU DON’T So until you get your psychic powers up to speed and can read my mind, I wouldn’t make claims that are completely unfounded.

You could say what you said about SOME non-denoms but to say that about the whole of us is just plain wrong…If the shoe fits…

Sorry if that offends you…

**You haven’t offended me, only entertained me. But thanks for caring.👍 **

Did you make the claim that the difference in what catholics and non-denoms believe was because of the following:

Other than a commitment to God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and everything Jesus speaks of in the Bible?

Didn’t you see it in my previous post?


Meaning we have none of that and you have all of it?

Yes, Catholics have all of it and you do not.

How do you know of our commitment?

Commitment to what? Your own game? Your own rules? The lie?

You wouldn’t unless you are God.

**The actions of many of your kind speaks louder than words and it is obvious in the non-denom mentality of “I’m going to take the best of all denominations and make up my own version” **

Hence my comment. Not arrogance, just simple deduction my dear Watson…

No, it’s arrogance plain and simple.

Obviously you think it is ok to be anti-protestant.

I’m not anti-protestant, I’m only trying to lead them back to the truth.

Your post makes it perfectly clear. I didn’t say it was ok, or that I was condoning being anti-protestant, just that you think you can be but would debate or dislike anyone who was anti-catholic. Kind of hypocritcal in my book.

**You don’t comprehend the definition of the word hypocritical. If I said it was OK to dislike non-Catholics then said it was NOT OK to dislike Catholics, then I would be a hypocrite. But that’s not the case. You can dislike Catholics if that is what’s in your heart, and that is your right. It is wrong but it is your right to be that way. Just as it would be my right to dislike protestants if that was the case. BTW, your book needs a new editor. **

Well at least you admit you are anti-protestant. Honesty is a good virtue.

I have many good virtues as well as many faults.
  1. Catholicism is the true and original faith So you say. I have yet to see this for myself.
**Look hard enough and you will see the truth. **

I am here to understand catholocism so who knows, maybe that is where God is leading me.

Hmmm, I wonder why God would be leading you to Catholicism?

BUT it does not give you the right to assume and judge my heart and commitment.

I’m not judging you, I’m stating my opinion you’re the one getting bent out of shape because I’m expressing my opinion in a way that is not in congruence with your feelings.
  1. Scriptural roots prove Catholicism. But you knew that correct? because you are a biblical theologian
I have not seen the proof you speak of for several beliefs within catholocism. I am not saying it exists, just I haven’t seen it.

Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8 For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.
Matthew 7:7,8 DR


And I NEVER claim to be a theologian. Don’t put words in my mouth mister…

Then practice what you preach.

It is not obvious…

Because you are blind and do not know ME. It’s obvious to God and that is the only thing that counts.

Who said / believes this???

Non-Catholics
 
What is the difference between Catholic beliefs and non-denominational beliefs?

**There’s no such thing as “non-denominational” Christianity.

It might be a denomination of just one congregation–or person–but it’s much mroe likely that this person (or congregation) will be found to fit neatly into one of the existing denominations.**
 
This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who have participated.

God bless-

Rachel
 
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