Non-fallible teachings: any examples?

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3rd time.
The Church does not canonize the damned.
So if someone stubbornly persists in refusing to accept this, and spins and twists into a pretzel to demonstrate that Judas (or Hitler or Martin Luther or whoever) is absolutely certainly damned, could we say that person is in direct disobedience and contempt of the Church, the same as, say, a politician who claims to be both Catholic and pro-abortion? I think so.
 
So if someone stubbornly persists in refusing to accept this, and spins and twists into a pretzel to demonstrate that Judas (or Hitler or Martin Luther or whoever) is absolutely certainly damned, could we say that person is in direct disobedience and contempt of the Church, the same as, say, a politician who claims to be both Catholic and pro-abortion? I think so.
Are you his bishop?
If not, that might be a problem for just a guy on the internet.,
 
Are you his bishop?
If not, that might be a problem for just a guy on the internet.,
I didn’t mean a specific person, I just meant generally. We don’t condemn individual people, but as a general principle, we don’t need to consult a bishop to know that a Catholic politician who supports abortion shows contempt for the Church.
 
So if someone stubbornly persists in refusing to accept this, and spins and twists into a pretzel to demonstrate that Judas (or Hitler or Martin Luther or whoever) is absolutely certainly damned, could we say that person is in direct disobedience and contempt of the Church, the same as, say, a politician who claims to be both Catholic and pro-abortion? I think so.
I didn’t mean a specific person, I just meant generally. We don’t condemn individual people, but as a general principle, we don’t need to consult a bishop to know that a Catholic politician who supports abortion shows contempt for the Church.
I was simply addressing your post.
The responsibility for claiming a “person is in direct disobedience and contempt of the Church” resides with the bishop, AFAIK.
Maybe I’m wrong.

Small misinterpretations of things on the internet by anonymous laypeople don’t amount to a hill of beans, really.
 
Small misinterpretations of things on the internet by anonymous laypeople don’t amount to a hill of beans, really.
This is true, in the sense that someone declaring Judas to be damned has absolutely zero relevance in eternity, because only God’s judgment matters. But when we make a habit of letting a couple of insignificant beans slide, after awhile it can turn into an avalanche.

Just yesterday in my high school catechism class, I was going over the idea of salvation, referring to the Catechism’s point that salvation is possible for some who are ignorant of the gospel through no fault of their own, etc. etc. One kid raised his hand and laughed, saying “That is the exact opposite of what we learned last year (from another teacher). We learned that if you’re not Catholic, you go straight to hell, no exceptions.”

So now, because of a “small misinterpretation” by a layperson, I’m going to have a long uphill battle this year, trying to wade through whatever other nonsense has been drilled into the kids’ heads. We all have some influence over someone somewhere, and we need to either have a correct understanding or keep silent, even on some anonymous internet message board. Otherwise, the Church ends up being an incoherent mess, and it’s no wonder when people walk away in droves. Like Fladreamer for example. Look at his posts. This is a person we NEED in the Church, but he’s been missing for decades because enough “small misinterpretations” have piled up enough to form a mountain. I have no doubt that God can move that mountain, but there’s no reason why any Catholic should be fighting against Him, no matter how anonymous they are.
 
You did it yet again. Dashing babies’ heads against the rock gets turned into mortifying one’s passions, while Psalm 69 is a prophecy about God sending people straight to hell. Why is Psalm 69 not read the same way as 136? Why is it not our passions and sins that are blotted out of the book of the living? Why wouldn’t Psalm 69 be a prophecy about the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

You’re making an excellent case for anyone who says that Catholic interpretation of scripture is arbitrary subjective silliness. (Even in the numbering. 136 in Douay Rheims, 137 in NIV). Confusion galore.
It is Psalm 68 in the Douay-Rheims-Challoner and other Bibles. There is a different numbering, beginning at Psalm 9.

So Haydock commentary on Psalm 68:

29 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; and with the just let them not be written.

Ver. 29. Living. Let them die. (Grotius)

— If we understand the book of the predestinate to life eternal, and not merely to present and mutable justice, (Tirinus) God never blots any out. But though they fall, he brings them to repentance. (St. Augustine; Estius; Bellarmine)

— The reprobation of the obstinate Babylonians (Calmet) and Jews, is predicted. (Haydock)

— The latter were effaced from the book of the living of the Old Testament, and were never written in that of the just, belonging to the New. (St. Jerome)

— At death, the unbelieving Jews (Haydock) shall not find their expectations well founded. (Worthington) — Only the faithful are truly just. (Menochius)
 
So now, because of a “small misinterpretation” by a layperson, I’m going to have a long uphill battle this year, trying to wade through whatever other nonsense has been drilled into the kids’ heads. We all have some influence over someone somewhere, and we need to either have a correct understanding or keep silent, even on some anonymous internet message board. Otherwise, the Church ends up being an incoherent mess, and it’s no wonder when people walk away in droves. Like Fladreamer for example. Look at his posts. This is a person we NEED in the Church, but he’s been missing for decades because enough “small misinterpretations” have piled up enough to form a mountain.
In all fairness, my crisis of faith runs very deep, multiple causes. The universe screams that there is a god, the CC screams that there is no God.

My own dad was never happy, a miserable man coming from a wretched background. He was always on a mission of some sort:give hope to the youth, work towards the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Fr. Gobbi’s Marian Movement of Priests etc. He thought we were that close to Parousia, the antichrist, he thought all would be done by the year 2000. When I was a teen, I would always try to be around a couple of people to not be seen as an outcast, loner etc., but inside was shame, crushing hopelessness, crippling inadequacy, both my parents were insecure with money, so I could not take pride in being dressed well (not fancy, well). Life seemed dreary, dark, promising very little,
. I recall reading in the paper about a teen girl in a private school who had locked herself inside a bathroom stall and had set herself on fire. I understood that life can be unbearable to some, and that God allows life to be unbearable to some.

In 1997-1998 my life was in complete disarray, all-time low. I went to a Charismatic Catholic retreat, opening myself as fully as possible to God. Each person on the retreat had two volunteers who were assigned to them. One day’s theme was the occult. These two women prayed over me, it turned out I had occult ties or traces. Then came the old priest in charge of the retreat. Turned out I had NO occult ties or traces! During a group session, one of the ladies whispered to me: ‘I’ve prayed that you will experience the repose of the Holy Spirit at the end of the session.’’ I did not, but much to my shame, I had to fake what I thought was resting in the Spirit because a team of God-loving people were getting ready for me to drop into the paraclete’s holy arms:gopray2: (you can’t make up stuff like that) When I realized this whole masquerade wasn’t going to do anything for me, I decided to drop the whole thing and wait it out in my room. One of the ladies came to my room and took me to the chapel, where everybody was gathering to worship a monstrance, she led me to the monstrance, perhaps expecting it to touch me powerfully. Now, in the staff there was this close-faced nun that would not give me the time of the day, that is until the monstrance episode. Then she was full of solicitude!😛 When I left I was a religious freak for about a week, then I realized I’d just added another layer of misery to my already miserable life.

I wonder if God had a choice between fixing my NOT carefully and wonderfully made brain (frontal lobe fixed=no adhd, good executive memory=no anxiety, optimal neurotransmitter system=no depression) and my damnation, which one would he pick? See I’m now convinced that God has pulled a Job-like joke on me, but rather than being brutal and intense, it’s spread out over the course of a miserable, stagnant and tormented life. Say, the 5’‘2’ , 126 lbs man with a high-pitched voice and ‘‘grower’’ (rather than ‘‘show-er’’) genitalia is in for a long and tough life. His heart and emotional needs, need to belong, be respected and wanted are exactly the same as the 6 ft 195lbs guy with ripped abs and an outgoing, and magnetic personality.

Hell, even my time in the womb wasn’t easy! Mom was under heavy stress and wished to no longer be pregnant. Goes to show God is sooo good all the time. I feel cherished by God’s tender care! Satan is out to steal, kill and destroy, but God should have known better than to leave me alone with an unleashed, hungry, angry Pit Bull around. Love you, God!

Neophyte, don’t worry about anyone missing, even if 80% of humankind is damned, you’ll be happy in heaven, and the thought of those millions of lost souls will only make you glorify God’s justice more. You’ll think he’s more awesome because of it rather than *in spite *of it. BTW and FWIW, you have all my admiration for stepping up to the plate and teaching God and religion to 2016 teens. God and religion are an extremely tough sell. God has organized things in such a way as to give of himself the lasting impression of someone you wish you had never heard the name of. I understand he’s multi-faceted. I got the lacking, stingy and poisonous facet. If I can convince myself that blood pudding, veal glands (sweetbread) and warm stagnant water are feasts for kings and manage to consume them everyday for another 50 years, I’ll get to be eternally united with the cook. Gosh, can’t wait.:eek: A dream God.:rolleyes:

Neophyte, do you think God purposefully created me or did my parents’ holy copulation led to a bunch of cells graciously ensouled by my loving God? Do you often surprise your wife, kids or best friend with a week end trip to a place they abhor, and then tell them off because they’re ungrateful to you? If they remain mad at you, do you build a small, unlit dungeon to keep them there for life? I know you don’t do any of these things (at least I hope so!), and in God’s word, you are evil, why can’t God be just as evil as a decent human being?
 
I think we all heard the platitude that if God had wanted a perfect Church he would have entrusted it to angels. This is a far cry from a perfect Church dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206008/Probe-launched-Polish-priest-gets-young-children-lick-whipped-cream-knee-creepy-school-initiation.html As a parent to any of these kids you can’t possibly NOT beat up this creep. As we speak he’s probably consecrating hosts or hearing confession, or giving a lecture on the perfection of God, or on how licking cream off a weird, socially awkward, 40 year-old virgin, ugly priest’s knee is every child’s most secret and dearest dream. How did this joker get through the very ‘‘rigorous’’ screening process? Because the media typically don’t follow up on news, we don’t know if he’s been laicized and sent to jail for a month to shock him into normalcy.

Neophyte, if you want yet another uphill battle show this article to your students and tell how the institution that this guy is part of has every solution to answer the deepest needs that any human can have. Then tell them how that credible institution has treated this guy so harshly that chances are he’s still a holy priest. The general apostasy was foretold, but it wasn’t mentioned how instrumental the Church itself would be in it. You’re in constant damage control. Next damage control operation could be this cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/cardinal-burke-christians-and-muslims-do-not-worship-same-god against the positive comments made by Francis on Islam. And how everything about Jesus is always shrouded in controversy. Starting with the Turin Shroud. Or how in the NT ‘‘brother’’ magically stops to mean ,‘brother’’ when it appears next to ‘‘Jesus’’.
 
I think we all heard the platitude that if God had wanted a perfect Church he would have entrusted it to angels. This is a far cry from a perfect Church dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206008/Probe-launched-Polish-priest-gets-young-children-lick-whipped-cream-knee-creepy-school-initiation.html As a parent to any of these kids you can’t possibly NOT beat up this creep. As we speak he’s probably consecrating hosts or hearing confession, or giving a lecture on the perfection of God, or on how licking cream off a weird, socially awkward, 40 year-old virgin, ugly priest’s knee is every child’s most secret and dearest dream. How did this joker get through the very ‘‘rigorous’’ screening process? Because the media typically don’t follow up on news, we don’t know if he’s been laicized and sent to jail for a month to shock him into normalcy.

Neophyte, if you want yet another uphill battle show this article to your students and tell how the institution that this guy is part of has every solution to answer the deepest needs that any human can have. Then tell them how that credible institution has treated this guy so harshly that chances are he’s still a holy priest. The general apostasy was foretold, but it wasn’t mentioned how instrumental the Church itself would be in it. You’re in constant damage control. Next damage control operation could be this cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/cardinal-burke-christians-and-muslims-do-not-worship-same-god against the positive comments made by Francis on Islam. And how everything about Jesus is always shrouded in controversy. Starting with the Turin Shroud. Or how in the NT ‘‘brother’’ magically stops to mean ,‘brother’’ when it appears next to ‘‘Jesus’’.
prejudice much?
One person = the whole characterization of millions of people?

That’s prejudice.
I’m sorry for you.
 
prejudice much?
One person = the whole characterization of millions of people?

That’s prejudice.
I’m sorry for you.
I did not put all priests in one basket. Just to make sure we sense the same indignation and have moral compasses not too far one from the other. If you were responsible for a youth group and found out the leader did something similar, would you a)fire him right away and tell him not to come anywhere near the youth group, or b) tell him how some things may appear to be a good idea but are actually grossly inappropriate and teach him how to judge if something is appropriate. If I was his bishop the day I found out would be the last day he was a priest, period.

But the whole point was not to mischaracterize the whole of the Church but to try to explain how many things, small or bid, have eroded my faith, and how stuff like that does not help in the least. Nobody came away edified, inspired or uplifted from the reading. I love this sister youtube.com/watch?v=jTjFOETVB0A Fr. Schmitz is something else youtube.com/channel/UCVdGX3N-WIJ5nUvklBTNhAw Used to not care for Jason Evert, but i’ve sort of rediscovered him recently. When Fr. Corapi fell from grace, I was genuinely heartbroken, he was a powerful preacher.

Sorry if I gave the impression of being prejudiced.
 
Haha awesome! I actually know her personally. She’s incredible. I’m convinced that the truest expression of the Catholic Church in modern times is found in the SOLTs, and I’m very fortunate to be able to work closely with many of them fairly regularly. (In fact, I very recently heard a SOLT priest give a homily at a charismatic mass, forcefully condemning the sort of practices of forced and phony expectations of “experiences” that you were subjected to. I regret that I didn’t record it…it would have been great to share with you).

I will respond to your last couple of posts soon, when I have time to really concentrate on your questions and points.
 
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