non-Roman Rite Catholics

[Arthur22124]

We can, but the Eastern Catholic role is one of struggling. We are neither fully Catholic in Rome’s eyes, nor Orthodox in the eyes of the East. Both sides pull the Eastern Catholics trying to get them on their side. It is quite disheartening at times…On top of that, certain Latinizations have caused many Eastern Catholic communities to have an have identity crisis. On the opposite end, though, their are some like myself who are so Eastern that with the exception of the Pope, vvery little is different.

By the way: Welcome to CAF! I hope you enjoy it here…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

The Ukrainian Catholics I know are very well balanced. The seem very happy with who they are.

I am not sure that struggling is the only thing that the Eastern Catholics have going for them. They are strong in their liturgy and their tradition and they are Catholic.

Anyway, it would be good for us to focus on some more positive things than conflict here.

Thanks for the welcome. Merry Christmas.

 

[surgei]

The Ukrainian Catholics I know are very well balanced. The seem very happy with who they are.

I am not sure that struggling is the only thing that the Eastern Catholics have going for them. They are strong in their liturgy and their tradition and they are Catholic.

Anyway, it would be good for us to focus on some more positive things than conflict here.

Thanks for the welcome. Merry Christmas.

I don’t know how strong they are in Liturgy. Even by their own customs they are strougling. This is one of the things my brother, a UGC and I spoke on not so long ago. I know many that are not as fortunate as the ones you know and struggling is exactly what they do.
I think one of the things that the GC’s are doing is showing Rome where her traditions realy are. Look at the thread about the suposed dogma of Limbo. I think the modern Popes rejection of it is a result of the influence of the Unia.
BTW it is only certain Unia that see that term as filthy. Many see it as a goodnatured jest in the nature of false humility and as far as I can tell it was coined by them.

 

[surgei]

Come back to her right mind? Wow, that is really inappropriate.

Why cant we talk about the Eastern Catholic role in reunification? Why cant we be positive?

This is not a slam. The church of the west has lost the things that were handed on to her, losing the mind of the early Church.
I find it odd to see that many in the west hold the bishops of particular churches in the east not getting along as a need for a pope, yet at the same time they had a pope and ended up not having seperate jurisdictions but true heretical rebellions. Protestantism is a child of the west. Even though Bishops may not get along in the east, there is still great dogmatic cohesion.

 

[Arthur22124]

This is not a slam. The church of the west has lost the things that were handed on to her, losing the mind of the early Church.
I find it odd to see that many in the west hold the bishops of particular churches in the east not getting along as a need for a pope, yet at the same time they had a pope and ended up not having seperate jurisdictions but true heretical rebellions. Protestantism is a child of the west. Even though Bishops may not get along in the east, there is still great dogmatic cohesion.

Whatever. I am not interest in anyone’s triumphalism. East or West. Compared to Christ, it is phony. To approach one another, we need to be humble and kind and merciful. I dont see much of this here on any side.

 

[Arthur22124]

I don’t know how strong they are in Liturgy. Even by their own customs they are strougling. This is one of the things my brother, a UGC and I spoke on not so long ago. I know many that are not as fortunate as the ones you know and struggling is exactly what they do.
I think one of the things that the GC’s are doing is showing Rome where her traditions realy are. Look at the thread about the suposed dogma of Limbo. I think the modern Popes rejection of it is a result of the influence of the Unia.
BTW it is only certain Unia that see that term as filthy. Many see it as a goodnatured jest in the nature of false humility and as far as I can tell it was coined by them.

I just dont find that using sketchy language is helpful, no matter what the reason. Again, we should imitate Christ in the ways we communicate with one another.

 

[Alexius]

I just dont find that using sketchy language is helpful, no matter what the reason. Again, we should imitate Christ in the ways we communicate with one another.

Sergei’s points are valid. Under the influence of Western Fathers such as Augustine, Anselm and Thomas Aquinas, many teachings such as limbo have prevailed. It is good to speak in terms of common things, but there are still differences. The Ukrainian Catholic Church, for instance, is influenced by Rome to varying degrees. Some churches are very similar to their Orthodox counterparts, but others are so Latinized that they lack iconostasis’, and employ confessionals, the Rosary and Stations of the Cross.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Arthur22124]

Sergei’s points are valid. Under the influence of Western Fathers such as Augustine, Anselm and Thomas Aquinas, many teachings such as limbo have prevailed. It is good to speak in terms of common things, but there are still differences. The Ukrainian Catholic Church, for instance, is influenced by Rome to varying degrees. Some churches are very similar to their Orthodox counterparts, but others are so Latinized that they lack iconostasis’, and employ confessionals, the Rosary and Stations of the Cross.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

My apologies for being unclear. I was refering to the use of the term uniat, which many find offensive. There is just no good reason to offend others, especially at Christmas, but really at any other time.

 

[Alexius]

My apologies for being unclear. I was refering to the use of the term uniat, which many find offensive. There is just no good reason to offend others, especially at Christmas, but really at any other time.

As an Eastern Catholic, I do not find the term offensive, but I know that some do…

 

[surgei]

As an Eastern Catholic, I do not find the term offensive, but I know that some do…

If your ear offends you, cut it off.
Would using the english Union to describe the Roman Catholic east be easier?

 

[Arthur22124]

If your ear offends you, cut it off.
Would using the english Union to describe the Roman Catholic east be easier?

I am not sure what you goals are here. But, we do not use the term “Roman Catholic” for the Catholic East. The best term is Eastern Catholic Churches. For a respectful dialogue to take place it is helpful to use the terms which people use for themselves.

Am new here and am very unimpressed the with tone of the posts to this forum. Christians should relate to one another in a dignified and respectful fashion.

 

[surgei]

I am not sure what you goals are here. But, we do not use the term “Roman Catholic” for the Catholic East. The best term is Eastern Catholic Churches. For a respectful dialogue to take place it is helpful to use the terms which people use for themselves.

Am new here and am very unimpressed the with tone of the posts to this forum. Christians should relate to one another in a dignified and respectful fashion.

Hence my earlier use of the term Unia. This is a term I get from the local Roman Catholic byzantine reader.

Please look at our posts deaper.
Many of us have nothing but love and respect for eachother. We don’t sugar coat but we don’t attack each other either.

 

[Arthur22124]

Hence my earlier use of the term Unia. This is a term I get from the local Roman Catholic byzantine reader.

Please look at our posts deaper.
Many of us have nothing but love and respect for eachother. We don’t sugar coat but we don’t attack each other either.

Unia is no better. Please use the preferred terminology, Eastern Catholic.

I would like to participate in this forum, but not at its current level of self righteousness, and lack of humily and mutual respect. The current level of discussion is unbecoming of Christians.

 

[surgei]

In a word no.
The different “doctrines” are really just different ways of looking at the same truth. That is, what may apear contradictory is in fact complimentary.
Look at it like this. When you look down the barrel of a scope you find two lines, one vertical one horizontal. The Church of the West looks at the horizontal line and makes coment based on it. The Church of the east looks at the horizontal line and makes coments based on it. Using either line and the edge of the scope one could find be the location of the center point of the scope. Using both sets you can find the center of the scope with ease.
Does this make sense to you?

One of these should have been virtical. Sorry bout that.

 

[yeshua]

I would like to participate in this forum, but not at its current level of self righteousness, and lack of humily and mutual respect. The current level of discussion is unbecoming of Christians.

Arthur,

I am so sorry that this community has disappointed you, and I firmly agree with your observations. The toxic environment you comment on was the criticism of the former structure and participants of this forum, as what you see now is a makeover of a past experiment. What I find remarkable is that nothing seems to have changed, especially since the supposed “offenders” are no longer here. It certainly stirs some thoughts.

Have a most Blessed Christmas, Arthur, I do hope that this forum will live up to it’s remodeling after this season. We as a community need your charity and civility!

Peace and God Bless!

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

It is not only that Rome has left the East. She has left heself in these inovations. As Orthodox we want Rome to come back to her right mind.

This is not an eastern Christianity forum, it is an eastern Catholic forum, so please be respectful of our Church. It is Christmas afterall!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I had to reread the OP just to make sure that I understood the Question. We seem to have gotten to talking about the Catholic Church vs the Orthodox when that was not the Question. It was for a explanation of similarities and differences in the Eastern and western Catholic Church. with no disrespect to my Orthodox brothers, it was not but the Orthodox church.

I for one would love to hear comments on similarities and differences in the Eastern and western Catholic Church.

Peace in the Lord

Scott

 

[Patchunky]

Some churches are very similar to their Orthodox counterparts, but others are so Latinized that they lack iconostasis’, and employ confessionals, the Rosary and Stations of the Cross

2 of my best friends are Ukrainian Greek Catholic priests, both ordained in Rome, 1 is serving, with his wife, a Ukrainian parish in Rome, the other is unmarried and is serving a parish in Ukraine while teaching in the Seminary.

They tell of their father being ordained at kitchen table in the middle of the night during the Communist times and of him hearing confessions while doing car tune-ups.

They also talk of sitting with the old Babas and chanting the Rosary before Divine Liturgy during the Communist times. They could say the Rosary on their fingers with no one noticing them praying…

I have heard the old Babas chanting the Rosary before Divine Liturgy in my family village in Slovakia. I REALLY miss hearing the chanting in my parish here…

 

[jj2011]

Patchunky, what does the NOVINA mean in
that nice signature line?

VESELO NAM NOVINA
PORODILA DIVA SYNA…

 

[Patchunky]

Patchunky, what does the NOVINA mean in
that nice signature line?

VESELO NAM NOVINA
PORODILA DIVA SYNA…

It translates to:

We have joyful news!
The Virgin has given birth to a Son

So, NOVINA would mean “news”

Hope this helps…

 

[JBoscoII]

I have never really understood the Eastern Rites, being of the Latin Rite myself. I am currently in Kuwait and had the oppurtunity to discover that the local Roman Catholic vicariate is the largest in country out of the Christian cults. In my work many of the Catholics I come across tend to be Egyptian Coptics. Despite the language barrier there seems to be little difference if any between them here and the Catholics I know back home.

I guess no matter what the rite there are always those catholics who live their lives the best they know how and just live.