Non-sexual civil marriage

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What do you think the Church would say about 2 divorced Catholics entering into a civil marriage for financial/legal reasons if both remained chaste?

What about 2 never married Catholics for the same reasons?

What about 2 same sex Catholics entering a civil union?

Why?
Are the situations different from each other?

Please assume for the sake of argument that they will always remain chaste.
 
What do you think the Church would say about 2 divorced Catholics entering into a civil marriage for financial/legal reasons if both remained chaste?

What about 2 never married Catholics for the same reasons?

What about 2 same sex Catholics entering a civil union?

Why?
Are the situations different from each other?

Please assume for the sake of argument that they will always remain chaste.
by catholic standards none of these are marriages, all of these represent a misrepresentation of the person for a contract, so all are problematic. One could apply the “greater good” principle ( proper name escapes me) however that would be on an individual bases.
 
if they are married just for convenience, they are committing fraud, which in itself is a sin

examples would be:
marriage just for tax breaks
marriage for citizenship
 
if they are married just for convenience, they are committing fraud, which in itself is a sin

examples would be:
marriage just for tax breaks
marriage for citizenship
Can you support that my conditions constitute civil fraud and are therefore a sin?

Is it civil fraud if both people agree to be celibate and intend to make it a life long commitment?

If it’s not a civil fraud is it still morally wrong according to canon law or the CCC?
 
What do you think the Church would say about 2 divorced Catholics entering into a civil marriage for financial/legal reasons if both remained chaste?

What about 2 never married Catholics for the same reasons?

What about 2 same sex Catholics entering a civil union?

Why?
Are the situations different from each other?

Please assume for the sake of argument that they will always remain chaste.
There is no such thing as a divorced Catholic. Catholics cannot divorce.The civil status is irrelevant.
What you propose is firstly in my view fraudulent and secondly not recognised as a valid marriage by the Church.
 
There is no such thing as a divorced Catholic. Catholics cannot divorce.The civil status is irrelevant.
What you propose is firstly in my view fraudulent and secondly not recognised as a valid marriage by the Church.
Good point. Although the Church does not say that people cannot obtain a civil divorce. In fact, civil divorce is a requirement to begin the annulment process. It’s the unchastity of a re-marriage without prior annulment that is sinful is it not?

What about the other 2 couples?
 
Civil marriage is nothin more then a contract in reality. I dont think the Church would have an issue with it, unless it could cause some sort of scandle though.
 
by catholic standards none of these are marriages, all of these represent a misrepresentation of the person for a contract, so all are problematic. One could apply the “greater good” principle ( proper name escapes me) however that would be on an individual bases.
(in follow up)
It is the Doctrine of Double Effect
  1. The nature of the act is itself good, or at least morally neutral; AND 2) The agent intends the good effect and not the bad either as a means to the good or as an end itself; AND 3) The good effect outweighs the bad effect in circumstances sufficiently grave to justify causing the bad effect and the agent exercises due diligence to minimize the harm.
An example would be if a person’s life was worthless in one country and the sham marriage contract allowed that person to migrate to a better country. Then the doctrine of double effect might prevent the misrepresentation from being a sin
 
if they are married just for convenience, they are committing fraud, which in itself is a sin

examples would be:
marriage just for tax breaks
marriage for citizenship
I think it depends. For citizenship I can’t speak but on the tax/fiscal side I can offer an example where I don’t think it would be a sin.

There are relationships of mutual co-dependency out there that should have some kind of tax or different fiscal treatment similar to that of married folks. A case in point was my mother and elderly aunt which I spoke of on the same-sex marriage thread. They lived together for 30 years after my father died as my mother was in frail health and could not work, but her spinster sister had a decent job (and eventually a good public-service pension).

Because they weren’t married my mother had no survivor rights to my aunt’s pension should she die first (a real possibility given that my mother and aunt lived to be 83 and 92 respectively and died within a year of each other).

They were mutually supportive of each other. If my aunt had died first (she died after my mother as it happened), and didn’t have me for support, she would have been left destitute.

It’s unjust that a same-sex couple can get these rights on the basis of a sexual relationship but my mother and aunt couldn’t on the basis of a sibling relationship.

However I do know of some sexless heterosexual marriages, generally second marriages where the couple are too old for or are no longer interested in sex. Yet they love each other, are great friends, have a relationship of mutual co-dependency, do activities together, and present themselves socially as husband and wife.

While the Church won’t recognize this as a “marriage”, I personally have no problems with couples like those undertaking a civil marriage or union. In fact it is possibly a matter of survival for the remaining partner should one die, and is the only way to ensure survivor benefits.

In Canada these benefits are important. If you are not married in Quebec, for instance, your RRSP (equivalent to 401k) is fully taxable on death of a partner, but if married, the RRSP is transferred tax-free to the surviving spouse. This can represent hundreds of thousands of dollars. Secondly, as mentioned above there would be no pension survivor benefits.

I don’t think you can say that a mutually co-dependent but non-sexual couple are committing “fraud” or just “convenience” by taking advantage of legal mechanisms provided by the state to protect survivor benefits.

Therefore I think that for legal unions outside the Church, the guiding rule should not be a sexual relationship, but rather a relationship of mutual co-dependency.
 
I think it depends. For citizenship I can’t speak but on the tax/fiscal side I can offer an example where I don’t think it would be a sin.

There are relationships of mutual co-dependency out there that should have some kind of tax or different fiscal treatment similar to that of married folks. A case in point was my mother and elderly aunt which I spoke of on the same-sex marriage thread. They lived together for 30 years after my father died as my mother was in frail health and could not work, but her spinster sister had a decent job (and eventually a good public-service pension).

Because they weren’t married my mother had no survivor rights to my aunt’s pension should she die first (a real possibility given that my mother and aunt lived to be 83 and 92 respectively and died within a year of each other).

They were mutually supportive of each other. If my aunt had died first (she died after my mother as it happened), and didn’t have me for support, she would have been left destitute.

It’s unjust that a same-sex couple can get these rights on the basis of a sexual relationship but my mother and aunt couldn’t on the basis of a sibling relationship.

However I do know of some sexless heterosexual marriages, generally second marriages where the couple are too old for or are no longer interested in sex. Yet they love each other, are great friends, have a relationship of mutual co-dependency, do activities together, and present themselves socially as husband and wife.

While the Church won’t recognize this as a “marriage”, I personally have no problems with couples like those undertaking a civil marriage or union. In fact it is possibly a matter of survival for the remaining partner should one die, and is the only way to ensure survivor benefits.

In Canada these benefits are important. If you are not married in Quebec, for instance, your RRSP (equivalent to 401k) is fully taxable on death of a partner, but if married, the RRSP is transferred tax-free to the surviving spouse. This can represent hundreds of thousands of dollars. Secondly, as mentioned above there would be no pension survivor benefits.

I don’t think you can say that a mutually co-dependent but non-sexual couple are committing “fraud” or just “convenience” by taking advantage of legal mechanisms provided by the state to protect survivor benefits.

Therefore I think that for legal unions outside the Church, the guiding rule should not be a sexual relationship, but rather a relationship of mutual co-dependency.
Those are all my thoughts exactly. Thank you for expressing them so well. As someone mentioned earlier there is a possibility of causing scandal if the marriage or union is assumed to be a sexual one. I know this could present an impediment but I wonder if that would be the only one.

I’m hoping someone can shed some light on how the Church views them.
 
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