NonCatholic Marriage

[Phemie]

What would a “formal act” even be? Publicly stating that you reject one or more dogmas of the Church? Writing a letter to your local bishop stating that you have defected from the faith? Being anathematized?

That formal act is frequently seen in countries like Germany where the State collects a ‘church tax’. Catholics publicly declare they are not Catholic to avoid paying the tax. Their parish is notified, their baptismal record is annotated.

Then they get angry when they can’t receive the sacraments.

 

[SMHW]

I understand all of this but it still doesn’t seem “right” to me.

And I doubt that God looks at it like this either. The “act” should be looked at, not the people participating in the act. IMO, it seems like either noncatholic weddings should be valid in God’s eyes or they shouldn’t…whether it is involving Catholics or nonCatholics.

I think what is troubling you is the idea that the Church has authority over Catholics that she does not consider binding on non-Catholics.

I think this is an idea that many people find troubling, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. Well, it is authority that we Catholics believe was given to the Church by Christ himself. There are divine laws which are binding on all people but the Church also has the authority to impose her own rules.

You might want to think of it as the Church being generous to non-Catholics by not imposing marriage restrictions on them. As such, non-Catholics are only bound by divine law on marriage and whatever rules their own religious authorities rightfully impose.

 

[ae22]

Anathemas are no longer performed, as they are no longer a part of canon law.

But let’s say (I don’t think he was, but for argument’s sake) that Richard Dawkins was baptized Catholic as an infant. He would most definitely have incurred latae sententiae excommunication 1,000 times over, and in an extremely public manner.

The Church would still consider him to be a member of the Catholic Church due to his baptism no matter WHAT he did, correct?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The Church would still consider him to be a member of the Catholic Church due to his baptism no matter WHAT he did, correct?

Excommunication means that you cannot receive the sacraments except for Reconciliation to bring you back into the fold, so to speak. It does not mean that you’ve been kicked out of the Church or damned to hell.

CatholicSooner, I wonder if it would help to think in terms of a different act and compare rules for Catholics vs. non-Catholics. Catholics are obligated to attend Mass on Sunday, non-Catholics are not. The “rules” are different for the two groups because the non-Catholics are not bound by the Catholic way of doing things.

 

[dans0622]

… The Church would still consider him to be a member of the Catholic Church due to his baptism no matter WHAT he did, correct?

Hello,

That is one way to look at it. I’ve come to think that it may be better to say that such a person is a “subject” of the Church even if he’s not truly a “member” of her, because of his actions.

Dan

 

[Joe_5859]

I understand all of this but it still doesn’t seem “right” to me.

And I doubt that God looks at it like this either. The “act” should be looked at, not the people participating in the act. IMO, it seems like either noncatholic weddings should be valid in God’s eyes or they shouldn’t…whether it is involving Catholics or nonCatholics.

I think God looks at it the way the Church does since He gave Her authority on the matter.

I understand how people can get hung up on this. It can seem arbitrary to many. But if we believe the Church is who She says She is, then it makes more sense.

Jesus established a visible Church on earth to “be with us always.” And He entrusted the church with real authority – the authority to “bind and loose.” Thus, the Church can properly expect things from us. And one of those things is the form that marriage takes for Catholics.

It’s not about the ceremony, but about the people. Marriage existed as an institution ever since the dawn of man. The Church didn’t co-opt that from non-Catholics. But the Church can expect Her members to abide by her rules. We’d be in bad shape if valid marriage was only possible for Catholics!

Not to paint this as strictly an authoritarian “do as we say or else” type of thing. There are reasons for the laws. The Church has a duty to her members to see that they properly understand what they are undertaking in marriage. That cannot really happen if Catholics can just get married wherever and whenever they choose without involving the Church in the equation at all. That’s generally what happens when Catholics get married outside of the Church.

 

[CatholicSooner]

So in essence it’s really a non issue…if you are Catholic, why wouldn’t you want to get married in Christs church? It should never be a complex situation.

Well in real life, it is a very complex situation. For instance a couple that cannot get married in the church even though one of them is Catholic

 

[CatholicSooner]

Excommunication means that you cannot receive the sacraments except for Reconciliation to bring you back into the fold, so to speak. It does not mean that you’ve been kicked out of the Church or damned to hell.

CatholicSooner, I wonder if it would help to think in terms of a different act and compare rules for Catholics vs. non-Catholics. Catholics are obligated to attend Mass on Sunday, non-Catholics are not. The “rules” are different for the two groups because the non-Catholics are not bound by the Catholic way of doing things.

yes thank you. That makes more sense even though the act of not going to mass on Sunday could still offend God. I guess it goes back to the ignorance “clause”

 

[Casilda]

Well in real life, it is a very complex situation. For instance a couple that cannot get married in the church even though one of them is Catholic

and even though BOTH are Catholic. Yes, its a very complex issue that if not handled properly destroys faith in the church. My mom was dealing with an annulment issue, her ex-husband had abandoned her and my half brother. She was never able to contact him or his family about the annulment process-they lived in another country. So my parents just went to Vegas to get married. They had waited years for this to resolve. Because of that, the church postponed my baptism, my sister’s baptism, I was almost not allowed to attend first communion classes because my parents were not ‘members’ and were not ‘married’ in the church. My mother died without reconciliation to the church, my brother (baptized and confirmed Catholic) has never set foot in any church again and neither has my sister. I was away for 45yrs. Bad legacy for this annulment/marriage issue when not approached properly by church staff.

You just cant throw papers at people and leave them to their own devices. My mom suffered for years sending letters to family and friends back to the old country, wanting to have this issue resolved. It never was. That was very sad, she had to live as an unchurched Catholic, only her faith in God and Mother Mary sustained her, but not in the institution of the church.