Nonreligious, but drawn to Catholicism

[AntalKalnoky]

Subsidiarity is certainly a very important part of Catholic social teaching, but there is so much more. Were we to draw *everything *back into the locale–i.e., all that is social, all that is economic, all that is political–“subsidiarity” would probably cover it (and this might be a very good idea!); but given that we live in a global economy, and the politics that affect us most are at the nation-state level, subsidiarity doesn’t address everything. Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum, Paul VI’s Populorum Progressio, Jon Paul II’s Laborem Exercens, and the US Bishops’ Economic Justice for All, for example, express essential aspects of Catholic social teaching, as well. What concerns me is that, while I’m very well aware of the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion and gay marriage–because Catholics never stop talking about it–I had to just happen upon the above mentioned documents on my own, accidentally, because Catholics *never *talk about it (at least not in the public realm).

For me, this is a source of ambivalence toward the Church–or at least toward the churchgoers–that concerns me. Hopefully, I’ll sort this out in RCIA.

Subsidiarity is a Detail; “Social Concerns” Are the Heart and Centerpiece of the Catholic Church, and every Part of it Since Christ taught THAT.

 

[Jocko_VT]

Subsidiarity is a Detail; “Social Concerns” Are the Heart and Centerpiece of the Catholic Church, and every Part of it Since Christ taught THAT.

Yet, that’s not the message I get from the typical Catholic I run into around town, nor from the Catholic talking heads, nor from the Catholic politicians.

Why do you say “Euphamistically misnomered” in the previous post?

 

[Imryl]

If you seriously look into Catholicism you’ll find that it is a intellectually rigorous religion.

Having slowly moved from one side of the spectrum to the other over the course of, I think, 5 years, I’m confident you won’t be disappointed.

We all like to fancy ourselves as “rational” or “intellectual”, but you haven’t encountered rational or intellectual until you get a wif of what Catholicism is, what it teaches, and why. I have always balked at religion, and even God, until someone was able to demonstrate the reasonableness of it… that it wasn’t just blind faith and obedience to some unknown or unknowable “higher power”.

My recomendation is Edward Feser’s book “Aquinas”. It costs, I think, 5 bucks and it’s a very good starting point for us more intellectual and less emotionally driven people.

I’m also in RCIA.

 

[PJM]

=MinkPink;8371633]The past few months have been strange ones for me. For the past ten years, I have responded to an ultraconservative fundamentalist Protestant religious upbringing by shunning religion entirely. I strongly believe one does not have to believe in any religion to be good to others, and I enjoy being good for the sake of being good, it makes me and others around me feel good to do so.

I also find the idea of there being a God extremely unlikely. I can’t see any reason to believe in the Christian God when I don’t (nor does anyone now) believe in Zeus. Ditto the afterlife. I can only imagine that death will be exactly like it was before we were born. Nothingness where I was not particularly bothered by my lack of existence.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that if there is a God he would punish people who just could not for intellectual reasons reconcile the idea that there is a supreme being based on the world we live in and the evidence. Even if there were a God, I find the idea that he needs to send himself down to Earth in the form of a human so we can be forgiven when he can just forgive us very illogical.

All this said, for some bizarre reason, I have been very drawn to the Church. I have been attending Mass for the past couple of months. In times of stress, I find it incredibly comforting. I have been attending a very welcoming church and feel so much warmth when I go. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on social justice and intellectual inquiry and I like that. I have even started to go to RCIA for the inquiry period.

Not sure what I am looking for. Maybe just feedback from both the Catholics and agnostics and Atheists who frequent the forum.

REALLY

SO you and ALL of humailty are part physical and part SPIRITUAL because:shrug: And how did we get this way:shrug: Science tells us ?like must come from like" right.

Wanna know more

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Jocko_VT]

How’s RCIA going, Mink?

 

[kildare]

Abraham was asked by God to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice. Did you stop to consider that had he done that, then Jesus, our Lord and Saviour, would never have been born? For Mary was a direct descendent of Isaac and that child’s death would have stopped the whole covenent in its tracks.
To be sure this is a riddle with a complexity worthy of a True Revelation and I beleive it to be some kind of marker or foretelling for the coming of the Son of Man. Not sure what the experts say.

For the new atheists its just proof that the Bible is barbaric, but they are the shallow kinds that expect proof of God to be written in big hewbrew letters across the face of the sun, saying “Here I am - I exist” Actually I think Dawkins actually mentioned something like that being the proof he needed.

The New Atheists really are a bunch of nit-wits. (I was about to say something worse but I have working on being charitible these days)

 

[Jocko_VT]

Abraham was asked by God to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice. Did you stop to consider that had he done that, then Jesus, our Lord and Saviour, would never have been born? For Mary was a direct descendent of Isaac and that child’s death would have stopped the whole covenent in its tracks.
To be sure this is a riddle with a complexity worthy of a True Revelation and I beleive it to be some kind of marker or foretelling for the coming of the Son of Man. Not sure what the experts say.

For the new atheists its just proof that the Bible is barbaric, but they are the shallow kinds that expect proof of God to be written in big hewbrew letters across the face of the sun, saying “Here I am - I exist” Actually I think Dawkins actually mentioned something like that being the proof he needed.

The New Atheists really are a bunch of nit-wits. (I was about to say something worse but I have working on being charitible these days)

I disagree with your characterization of the New Atheists as nitwits. They’re actually quite brilliant–the “leaders,” at least. I agree with their logic. I think the truth is, religious people have failed miserably, and that has led to the likes of the New Atheists. As I’ve said many times before, if you keep creationism and its proxies (e.g., intelligent design) out of the public schools, you no longer have a new-atheist movement.

Of course evidence of God wouldn’t exist like that!! It’s not science!! That’s Dawkins’ point.

Concerning Mary, do you think that’s true? Would not have Jesus have simply been born by another? I’ve never head a discussion of this–does the Church have a position on this? It would be like saying, “Were it not for Adam, there’d be not humans.” I would just have thought there’d have been another first male!

 

[MinkPink]

How’s RCIA going, Mink?

Really well so far

 

[kildare]

I disagree with your characterization of the New Atheists as nitwits. They’re actually quite brilliant–the “leaders,” at least.

Brilliant? Maybe at getting publicity. Looks good at first, but after a while you realise its as shallow as what any TV evangelist. The end result is the same anyway. They make loads of money out of their followers.

Concerning Mary, do you think that’s true? Would not have Jesus have simply been born by another? I’ve never head a discussion of this–does the Church have a position on this? It would be like saying, “Were it not for Adam, there’d be not humans.” I would just have thought there’d have been another first male!

Of course. With no Isaac there would be no Israel (literally of course) and so no Mary. Jesus, like any other human (and he has full-human nature as well as full Godlike nature), is utterly unique. It cannot be replicated in some other parallel world. It has to happen exactly like it did. Some folks might disagree and say that God could have been incarnated as a Greek or Egyptian if He so wanted, but as God is utterly Just and not arbitrary it is not something that he would just do.