Norman Vincent Peale

[mitabrev]

Hi all,

I have a question that’s really bothering me…
A few years ago, I read “The power of Positive Thinking”. It seemed a good book.
But recently, i read that NV Peale was a Freemason.
Is this true?
If this was true, it really would change my opinion of that book, or anything else he wrote.

Thanks in advance of your replies…

 

[InLight247]

Hi all,

I have a question that’s really bothering me…
A few years ago, I read “The power of Positive Thinking”. It seemed a good book.
But recently, i read that NV Peale was a Freemason.
Is this true?
If this was true, it really would change my opinion of that book, or anything else he wrote.

Thanks in advance of your replies…

I have read “The Power of Positive Thinking” and thought it was good. He is also the founder of “Guideposts” magazine. I have subscribed Guideposts for long until several years ago, and enjoyed its true live stories. I have never heard he was a Freemason. Is he?

 

[thistle]

Hi all,

I have a question that’s really bothering me…
A few years ago, I read “The power of Positive Thinking”. It seemed a good book.
But recently, i read that NV Peale was a Freemason.
Is this true?
If this was true, it really would change my opinion of that book, or anything else he wrote.

Thanks in advance of your replies…

geocities.com/endtimedeception/peale.htm

 

[Joysong]

OP:

If this was true, it really would change my opinion of that book, or anything else he wrote.

It has been many years since I read the book, and I don’t recall anything being a danger to our faith, for most of the writing helped the reader to develop a positive attitude. Faith and trust in God is the antidote to fear and dwelling on the negative, which destroys both.

What we fail to remember sometimes, is that the Holy Spirit is present as we reflect on an author’s words, and He is the mover of our heart. Jesus prepared his disciples for the Spirit’s ministry, saying: "He will bear witness concerning Me. [Jn. 15:26] This remembrance of Jesus’s teachings will help us to follow in the manner God wills for us and that our prayerful reflection leads us after we finish reading.

It is true that even though we may be meditating on something a saint wrote, the Spirit will not witness to us that we should do likewise, but puts a check in our spirit to walk differently. So too, if the book contains no obvious theological errors but is of help to you, listen more for that voice of the Lord to help you know what is pleasing to Him. Do not be scandalized by the author’s error of life, for he can still teach truth in spite of it.

 

[InLight247]

…if the book contains no obvious theological errors but is of help to you, listen more for that voice of the Lord to help you know what is pleasing to Him. Do not be scandalized by the author’s error of life, for he can still teach truth in spite of it.

How well you said it!

There is saying by Confucius goes something like this:
Disregard not a good advice by someone who is usually perceived as unwise.
Disregard not a person by something he unwisely said either.

 

[distracted]

Hi all,

I have a question that’s really bothering me…
A few years ago, I read “The power of Positive Thinking”. It seemed a good book.
But recently, i read that NV Peale was a Freemason.
Is this true?
If this was true, it really would change my opinion of that book, or anything else he wrote.

Thanks in advance of your replies…

I never heard of him being a Mason, but if he was, i would definitely question every thing he wrote. Some people go against Jesus without even deliberately intending to… For instance, some of this positive thinking stuff is, in my opinion, a denial of reality and worse, a denial of the fact that we have to accept certain crosses in our lives… We have to accept powerlessness over certain things (people)… All the positive thinking in the world isn’t going to change certain things… Like the fact that people have free will and often use that free will to commit terrible evil… and there is nothing we or God can (will) do about it. I mean, sometimes God does intercede and stop certain evil things from happening, but he never interferes with a person’s free will (excpet through his/her consciense, of course…).
I think it is one of the hardest things to do to admit powerlessness… but if we had any significant power… we wouldn’t need God.
Anyway, i, personally, would not even read a book i knew to be writtten by a Mason. I’ve heard that in the upper degrees (30 - 33rd), it is nothing but Satanism (though in the lower degrees, its probably more or less harmless?? Who knows… since its so secretive, which by the way: Why is it so secretive?
I also read that N. V. Peale suffered from depression a lot… I believe it was because he didn’t have the absolute Truth found only in the Catholic Church… Yes, i know Catholics get depressed. I surely do… but i don’t get (and stay) depressed like i did when i was outside the Church…
God bless…

 

[byers]

Many protestant ministers are and have been Masons.
There is a big difference between trying to look at things in a hopeful and positive light which we all should do…and the ‘power of positive thinking’.

‘This’ power is more of an occultic type of witchcraft. It is the same as visualization where you keep trying to visualize in your mind what you want or want to happen, without regard for God’s will. It is similar to the book ‘Secrets’ promoted on the a popular tv show.
Stating what you want or want to have happen and thinking positively about getting it and using all kinds of other ‘techniques’ is also similar to conjuring. It is not christian prayer, although it can be very successful.
There were earlier books before Dr Peale’s such as Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. The basic ideas were pretty much the same. Mr. Hill said he received his book through channeling spirit guides which he referred to as the ‘council of nine.’ If true, I guess we could call these ideas ‘doctrines of demons’.

Better to place our needs and requests before God and let His will be done…and accept it.

All Guideposts is doing is cashing in on the experiences of others. Many are interesting, but some seem hokey…and the magazine is of course used to promote Peale’s ideas and support his Foundation.
.

 

[InLight247]

Visions and dreams are important. To be able to visualize is biblical.

God commanded Abraham to look north and south, east and west of Canaan.
All the land he could see would be his. His vision became his boundary.
God commanded Abraham to look at the stars and promised his descendents will be numerous as the stars. God taught Abraham to visualize.

Jacob was left with pure sheep but by his vision and dream, the pure flocks conceived spotted ones.

“And it happened, at the time when the flocks conceived, that I lifted my eyes and saw in a dream, and behold, the rams which leaped upon the flocks were streaked, speckled, and grayspotted.” (Gen. 31:10)

We will never grow beyond our vision.

There is nothing wrong for a basketball player to visualize the ball into the basket before shooting. As long as we put God’s will first, as long as our mentality is not to manipulate God, there is nothing wrong with positive thinking and positive visualization.

 

[Joysong]

In Light,

Very good point. My first reaction was to think of St. Paul’s positive thinking, “I can do ALL things in Christ who strengthens me.” If we think about it, I’ll bet we could write a pageful of encouraging positive quotes from scripture, in addition to what you have opened up for us.

I remember the story of the cripple who laid by the pool in Jn. 5 for many years. These folks waited for the moving of the water, for it was reported that the angel of the the Lord would come at that time and many would be healed. The lame man was 38 years in his infirmity, and Jesus asked him if he wanted to get well. The ‘lame’ excuse was that he had nobody to put him in the water, and others managed to step in before him. Talk about negative thinking!

I took courage from this passage, for those who went into the water ‘when it was troubled’ were cured. Lifted into positive thinking for a difficult personal situation, I determined to face the problem exactly when it was troubling me. At first my knees knocked so badly that it’s a wonder I could function at all. But with holy determination (a phrase of St. Teresa of Avila) I ignored the symptoms and did it anyway, and overcame this difficulty completely. There IS power in this type of thinking.

You are right that God helps us to envision, yet as long as we believe we can’t, we won’t. Very simple.

Carole

 

[Dorothy]

Many protestant ministers are and have been Masons.
There is a big difference between trying to look at things in a hopeful and positive light which we all should do…and the ‘power of positive thinking’.

‘This’ power is more of an occultic type of witchcraft. It is the same as visualization where you keep trying to visualize in your mind what you want or want to happen, without regard for God’s will. It is similar to the book ‘Secrets’ promoted on the a popular tv show.
Stating what you want or want to have happen and thinking positively about getting it and using all kinds of other ‘techniques’ is also similar to conjuring. It is not christian prayer, although it can be very successful.
There were earlier books before Dr Peale’s such as Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. The basic ideas were pretty much the same. Mr. Hill said he received his book through channeling spirit guides which he referred to as the ‘council of nine.’ If true, I guess we could call these ideas ‘doctrines of demons’.

Better to place our needs and requests before God and let His will be done…and accept it.

All Guideposts is doing is cashing in on the experiences of others. Many are interesting, but some seem hokey…and the magazine is of course used to promote Peale’s ideas and support his Foundation.
.

Many years ago a young man I know was reading “Think and Grow Rich” by Napolean Hill. When he got to the later chapters that spoke about the spirit guides, this young man realized the book was in serious error. He then began researching more about his own Catholic faith and became a more involved, prayerful Catholic who relied on God’s power in his life!

 

[InLight247]

In Light,

My first reaction was to think of St. Paul’s positive thinking, “I can do ALL things in Christ who strengthens me.” If we think about it, I’ll bet we could write a pageful of encouraging positive quotes from scripture, in addition to what you have opened up for us.

I remember the story of the cripple who laid by the pool in Jn. 5 for many years. These folks waited for the moving of the water, for it was reported that the angel of the the Lord would come at that time and many would be healed. The lame man was 38 years in his infirmity, and Jesus asked him if he wanted to get well. The ‘lame’ excuse was that he had nobody to put him in the water, and others managed to step in before him. Talk about negative thinking!

I took courage from this passage, for those who went into the water ‘when it was troubled’ were cured. Lifted into positive thinking for a difficult personal situation, I determined to face the problem exactly when it was troubling me. At first my knees knocked so badly that it’s a wonder I could function at all. But with holy determination (a phrase of St. Teresa of Avila) I ignored the symptoms and did it anyway, and overcame this difficulty completely. There IS power in this type of thinking.

You are right that God helps us to envision, yet as long as we believe we can’t, we won’t. Very simple.

Carole

Carole, I cannot agree with you more.

Jesus said in Mark 12:24

“Therefore, I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer,** believe that you will receive it, and it shall be yours.**”

This is to receive what we prayed for in the spiritual realm before it comes into physical reality.
It is visualization with faith.

Philippians 4:8

“whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.”

Think about these things means to dwell on them, let them sink into our mind.
For example, health is lovely and gracious. When we pray for healing, it is better to have a mental picture of health and vitality instead of sickness and death. God may or may not grant it, but it is up to us to visualize health if we want to get well. A positive mental picture definitely helps.

Your example of overcoming a difficult personal situation proves our thoughts make difference. Holy determination comes from positive thinking first. There is a saying, “People think they can, and people think they can’t, they are both right.” And it is very true. Just like you said, as long as we believe we can’t, we won’t. Very simple.

 

[Jeanette_L]

There is always need for balance.

A person can go too far in either direction, either believing he can change reality just by the power of thought, with no regard as to God’s will in his life, which is in effect setting himself up as master instead of Christ as master; or that he has no choices or decisions in shaping the journey of his life, a fatalistic view.

Either extreme is error and dangerous to the soul in the long run.

IMHO.

 

[InLight247]

In today’s Gospel

Matthew 13:54-58, “And he did not work many mighty deeds there because of their lack of faith.”

Jesus could do little mighty works in his hometown because the people who were familiar with him were closed-minded and do not believe. Faith is emphasized all over the Bible.

“Amen I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea’ and does not doubt in heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. (Mark 11:23)

There is positive faith, empty faith, and negative faith.
In other words, our faith could be the belief of what we ask for will come true, no expectation, or the opposite.

By all means when we pray, our attitude should always be “thy will be done”.
However, that does not mean to be uncertain and hold a void faith.
Without believing the mountain be thrown into the sea, the mountain won’t be thrown into the sea. When we pray, we ought to boldly believe with expectancy and joy.
And a positive mental picture of the desired result is helpful and important.

I have no intention of promoting Peale’s book “The Power of Positive Thinking”, but I observe a somewhat common mentality of lacking expectation of prayer results in the name of “thy will be done”.

In Matthew 9:23-26 when Jesus resurrected the official’s daughter, he told the crowd:

“Go away!” And when the crowd was put out, he came and took her by the hand, and the little girl arose.

Note what Jesus did here. The reason he performed his miracle after expelling the crowd is to get rid of, and clear out, the negative and hindering faith of the unbelieving crowd.

We ought to hold our positive faith in life. Faith makes a difference. And faith is pleasing to God.

 

[distracted]

Many protestant ministers are and have been Masons.
‘This’ power… is more of an occultic type of witchcraft. It is the same as visualization where you keep trying to visualize in your mind what you want or want to happen, without regard for God’s will. It is similar to the book ‘Secrets’ promoted on the a popular tv show.
Stating what you want or want to have happen and thinking positively about getting it and using all kinds of other ‘techniques’ is also similar to conjuring. It is not christian prayer, although it can be very successful.

Better to place our needs and requests before God and let His will be done…and accept it.

Thanks so much for this needed info… I knew there was something more “wrong” with the positive thinking stuff than i was able to fully articulate…

 

[mitabrev]

I never heard of him being a Mason, but if he was, i would definitely question every thing he wrote.

I says in Wikipedia that he was a Mason (33Deg).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Vincent_Peale

Says there Peale was a Scottish Rite Freemason (33°).

If the Church takes such a strong stance against Masons, I’d find it hard to read any books written by a Mason, especially by a Mason of 33Deg.
My conscience would bother me.

 

[InLight247]

Since I read Peale’s book many years ago I want to recheck it. I searched my book self and found a little booklet of his, named “Help Yourself with God’s Help”. It is not the “Power of the Positive Thinking”, but his theory is very consistent in all his work.

Here are some quotes:

Believing God is good and wants to help you.
Practice deep listening, reaching for contact with God. This form of prayer requires no words; simply listen until you hear inwardly.
In the form of brief prayer while waiting for a bus, or for the outcome of a conversation about to take place, fractional prayers add up to enhanced prayer attitude.
Talk to God sincerely in your own language.
Practice surrendering everything into God’s hands, believing that He will help and guide you.
Simply wanting to be with Him in a loving relationship.
Instead of visualizing the worst, image the best.
Think, talk and act as though you have faith, by so doing, you will develop strong faith.
We become what we think, act, and believe.
Follow the biblical teaching of becoming as a little child, thereby believing that nothing is too good to be true.

Based on the above, his teaching is sound.

If I have never read his book before, I will not go get it. After all we don’t even have enough time to read so many good Catholic books. But I will not trash what I have read just because I found out his is a FreeMason.

The book “Secret” is a total different story. I Google searched it and read some excerpt.
It is terrible, simply new age stuff. It says it doesn’t matter what your religion is… One can stop right there. Stay far away from it.

The difference is one is God centered, the other is totally self centered and without God.

 

[Dorothy]

Since I read Peale’s book many years ago I want to recheck it. I searched my book self and found a little booklet of his, named “Help Yourself with God’s Help”. It is not the “Power of the Positive Thinking”, but his theory is very consistent in all his work.

Here are some quotes:

Based on the above, his teaching is sound.

If I have never read his book before, I will not go get it. After all we don’t even have enough time to read so many good Catholic books. But I will not trash what I have read just because I found out his is a FreeMason.

The book “Secret” is a total different story. I Google searched it and read some excerpt.
It is terrible, simply new age stuff. It says it doesn’t matter what your religion is… One can stop right there. Stay far away from it.

The difference is one is God centered, the other is totally self centered and without God.

I haven’t read the book “The Power of Positive Thinking.” Can anyone tell me if, besides using the word God in his writings, if he mentions Jesus at all?

 

[distracted]

ISays there Peale was a Scottish Rite Freemason (33°).

If the Church takes such a strong stance against Masons, I’d find it hard to read any books written by a Mason, especially by a Mason of 33Deg.
My conscience would bother me.

A person is automatically ex-communicated from the Catholic C. for joining the Masons. I’ve done research on the Masons and - long story short - attaining the higher degrees requires renouncing Christianity. They “mourn” the day Chrstianity entered the world (part of a ceremony they go through…). Thanks for the info on NV Peale… i never knew…

 

[InLight247]

I haven’t read the book “The Power of Positive Thinking.” Can anyone tell me if, besides using the word God in his writings, if he mentions Jesus at all?

My book self is not very organized. After some digging, I found a book “Discovering the Power of Positive Thinking” by Peale, still not the original “The Power of Positive Thinking”, but should be similar.

In this book, there are Bible quotes in front of many chapters, both from Old and New Testament. The words of Jesus from Gospels were quoted all over. Most of the time, the quotes are used along with the Bible book’s name, chapter and verses without specifically mentioned “Jesus”. But “Jesus”, “Jesus Christ” and “Christ” did appear in different parts of the book. For example, “If you will unload this burden, and give it to Jesus Christ, He will clean out your mind, forgive you…” (page 139) I am just flipping it over to answer your question without re-reading it.

You have a good point about “Jesus”. Many New Age stuff talks about God but not Jesus. It could be deceiving and misleading.

 

[Dorothy]

My book self is not very organized. After some digging, I found a book “Discovering the Power of Positive Thinking” by Peale, still not the original “The Power of Positive Thinking”, but should be similar.

In this book, there are Bible quotes in front of many chapters, both from Old and New Testament. The words of Jesus from Gospels were quoted all over. Most of the time, the quotes are used along with the Bible book’s name, chapter and verses without specifically mentioned “Jesus”. But “Jesus”, “Jesus Christ” and “Christ” did appear in different parts of the book. For example, “If you will unload this burden, and give it to Jesus Christ, He will clean out your mind, forgive you…” (page 139) I am just flipping it over to answer your question without re-reading it.

You have a good point about “Jesus”. Many New Age stuff talks about God but not Jesus. It could be deceiving and misleading.

Thank you for your response. I was wondering about that because at one time a friend gave me a booklet that for every day it had a Bible quote on the top of the page, and then a short reflection. I didn’t have it for long when it was pointed out by a priest that that particular booklet was not from a Catholic source. (I should have checked). And, indeed, Jesus was not mentioned in the reflections.

Since then I have a similar booklet that is from a Catholic source, and the reflections were quite different! They totally focused on Jesus and how we should be following him. The other booklet was more sentimentality and “self-help” .