Nostalgic Catholics

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I am also one who was raised after Vatican II (born 1968) so nostalgia is not what it means to me. I had no idea the TLM existed until I visited my parents. WOW! I was blown away. It prompted me to take my faith more seriously and to learn about it. I found one that I could attend regularly and then realized there was so much more than the Mass. The priest gave sermons that were challenging, informative and inspiring. I discovered Eucharistic Adoration, something that was never mentioned at the church I attended before. Confession was more real to me because it was talked about frequently and because the penance was something that was substantive and meant to increase my prayer life and my devotion.
So while it was maybe the beauty of the Mass that got me in the door, it was every other thing that comes with it that keeps me there. I have found my home there and am so grateful to have the opportunity today that many Catholics were denied for so long. To those who kept going, I give you credit. I have not been to a TLM since I moved (2 weeks) and I cannot imagine having to go years. My hat is off to you!
I truely do not mean to offend. I look around the Ordinary Form and see really good people who are moved by the Mass and are doing great things in their families and in the world. It is just not for me.
 
Timothysis said:
The percentage of exclusive latin Mass goers is very, very small compared to those who attend the Ordinary Form.
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The percentage is very low because:
  1. Most Catholics have, up to recently, had no real knowledge of the TLM or access to one. The majority still don’t, I’d say.
  2. Most Catholics, post 1969, are, and were, non-voluntary attendees of the O.F. Its introduction wasn’t put to a vote and there was/is no other option available.
One can’t say, therefore, that Mass attendance numbers indicate popular support for the N.O.

**Conversely, there’s a deal of work involved in starting up or even attending a TLM, in many places, still. **
 
Layman said:
The percentage is very low because:
  1. Most Catholics have, up to recently, had no real knowledge of the TLM or access to one. The majority still don’t, I’d say.
  2. Most Catholics, post 1969, are, and were, non-voluntary attendees of the O.F. Its introduction wasn’t put to a vote and there was/is no other option available.
One can’t say, therefore, that Mass attendance numbers indicate popular support for the N.O.

**Conversely, there’s a deal of work involved in starting up or even attending a TLM, in many places, still. **
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I would agree. How the Mass is conducted is not up for a popular vote.
 
Layman said:
The percentage is very low because:
  1. Most Catholics have, up to recently, had no real knowledge of the TLM or access to one. The majority still don’t, I’d say.
  2. Most Catholics, post 1969, are, and were, non-voluntary attendees of the O.F. Its introduction wasn’t put to a vote and there was/is no other option available.
One can’t say, therefore, that Mass attendance numbers indicate popular support for the N.O.

**Conversely, there’s a deal of work involved in starting up or even attending a TLM, in many places, still. **
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I really agree with this.
Originally Posted by Timothysis
Society changed because the world changed due to the second World War. The economic society that was created after the second World War was directly linked to the causes of change in the 1960s. Picture a person born in 1929 and compare their life to someone born in 1949. It isn’t coincidental that the hippie generation, the ones who rebelled against everything, were post World War II babies. That, coupled with the rise of the mainstream media and a healthy economy in which people could obtain money with relative ease, created the environment in which the world was turned on its head. And don’t underestimate the effect that the Playboy culture had on society. It is all very much more complicated than blaming everything on Vatican II.
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I believe that looking at the ages of a number of people who were “aging Beatniks” or even older, there seems to be a real cultural thing from the 20’s, too. I think WWI had a super strong impact, too.
 
Tim, I do see your point on a lot of this. But where I’m going is that Vatican II didn’t cause these cultural changes, but did succumb to them in a bit, and same with the post-Vatican II Church in various ways. So rather than ride it out the Church enacted changes as a response to secular society and to the Protestants and atheists, etc. Why should we have been worried that the Church wouldn’t survive the plagues of modern society? She has done beautifully in the past. Why must we change ourselves to adjust to fit among the world’s worldly things? That’s what bothers me more.

About the Protestant-ness, I couldn’t really explain this myself, but I have heard it said among family and on the forum. I’d wager that it comes from the altar facing the people, or from the music… But that’s just my guess.

And yes, I agree that Vatican II does show consistent teaching, it’s just the effects afterwards and the changes after V-II that made more of a mark. I guess I didn’t fully say that.

And with the youth longing for more tradition… well at least in my area there are a bunch of liberal Catholic Churches, where we come out of them with poor theology and a poor understanding of our faith. For example I had to explain to my mom that indulgences aren’t a corrupt by-product of the evil medieval church, they’re still around and still as good as ever. And same for my little sister. Also I see it among my Catholic friends at school and at youth group, there’s that cafeteria catholic-ness there, but they keep going because they know there’s more to the Church than what they know. So we drag each other to adoration and confession, learn what to say to defend our faith(even have to teach 17 year old Catholics about the real prescence :eek:), and basically have to re-educate our parents and older family members along the way, who give us the basic faith but haven’t got anything to back it up, and have been twisted around in their opinions by modern society. 😦 And yes, I wasn’t around before Vatican II or even in the 80s:eek: but this is from my own personal experience.

God Bless 🙂
Ljubim
 
ljubim said:
Tim, I do see your point on a lot of this. But where I’m going is that Vatican II didn’t cause these cultural changes, but did succumb to them in a bit, and same with the post-Vatican II Church in various ways. So rather than ride it out the Church enacted changes as a response to secular society and to the Protestants and atheists, etc. Why should we have been worried that the Church wouldn’t survive the plagues of modern society? She has done beautifully in the past. Why must we change ourselves to adjust to fit among the world’s worldly things? That’s what bothers me more.

About the Protestant-ness, I couldn’t really explain this myself, but I have heard it said among family and on the forum. I’d wager that it comes from the altar facing the people, or from the music… But that’s just my guess.

And yes, I agree that Vatican II does show consistent teaching, it’s just the effects afterwards and the changes after V-II that made more of a mark. I guess I didn’t fully say that.

And with the youth longing for more tradition… well at least in my area there are a bunch of liberal Catholic Churches, where we come out of them with poor theology and a poor understanding of our faith. For example I had to explain to my mom that indulgences aren’t a corrupt by-product of the evil medieval church, they’re still around and still as good as ever. And same for my little sister. Also I see it among my Catholic friends at school and at youth group, there’s that cafeteria catholic-ness there, but they keep going because they know there’s more to the Church than what they know. So we drag each other to adoration and confession, learn what to say to defend our faith(even have to teach 17 year old Catholics about the real prescence :eek:), and basically have to re-educate our parents and older family members along the way, who give us the basic faith but haven’t got anything to back it up, and have been twisted around in their opinions by modern society. 😦 And yes, I wasn’t around before Vatican II or even in the 80s:eek: but this is from my own personal experience.

God Bless 🙂
Ljubim
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That’s similar to what I’ve seen. I think in the post VII Church advantage was taken (maliciously or not at all) of the seeming documents of VII. Then terrible catechesis began, too.
 
Timothysis said:
Society changed because the world changed due to the second World War. The economic society that was created after the second World War was directly linked to the causes of change in the 1960s. Picture a person born in 1929 and compare their life to someone born in 1949. It isn’t coincidental that the hippie generation, the ones who rebelled against everything, were post World War II babies. That, coupled with the rise of the mainstream media and a healthy economy in which people could obtain money with relative ease, created the environment in which the world was turned on its head. And don’t underestimate the effect that the Playboy culture had on society. It is all very much more complicated than blaming everything on Vatican II.

The percentage of exclusive latin Mass goers is very, very small compared to those who attend the Ordinary Form. It will be interesting to see if those who do attend out of curiosities sake will stay with it exclusively.
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I’ll just name one very well known person that advocated and advanced the movement of the 60s Timothy Leary. Guess when he was born 1920. The founding fathers of the hippie movement were not those born in the 40’s.

Regarding the TLM, considering the massive oppression that the mass experienced for 40 years there is no wonder that the vast majority attend the OF. It’s only been 2 years since the MP, a tiny amount of time given the the over 40 years of suppression that the TLM experienced.
 
Cider said:
I’ll just name one very well known person that advocated and advanced the movement of the 60s Timothy Leary. Guess when he was born 1920. The founding fathers of the hippie movement were not those born in the 40’s.

Regarding the TLM, considering the massive oppression that the mass experienced for 40 years there is no wonder that the vast majority attend the OF. It’s only been 2 years since the MP, a tiny amount of time given the the over 40 years of suppression that the TLM experienced.
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:yup: all the most liberal priest and bishops I know about were born in the 20s and early 30s
 
brigid12 said:
I really agree with this.

I believe that looking at the ages of a number of people who were “aging Beatniks” or even older, there seems to be a real cultural thing from the 20’s, too. I think WWI had a super strong impact, too.
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Yes, brigid, I agree with you 100%. A type of malaise descended over so many in France, Germany and the other combatant nations during and after the war. It was here that we see so many ideologies change and previous convictions tossed out of the window. Four emperors fell from their thrones; imagine the impact that had on simple people who were brought up believing that their kings ruled by God’s grace and desire. It is said that the 20th century didn’t start until 1914 and I think that a strong case can be made for that. The sad thing is, just look at the changes that came just 20 years later.
 
brigid12 said:
:yup: all the most liberal priest and bishops I know about were born in the 20s and early 30s
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It’s also interesting to note that all of the “liberal” and “modernists” priests and bishops of the Vatican II council were all raised, educated and ordained in the latin Mass.
 
ljubim said:
Why should we have been worried that the Church wouldn’t survive the plagues of modern society? She has done beautifully in the past.
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You have obviously never read a history of the Church. There have been many terrible times for the Church and terrible men who bore the title “pope.” I, personally, do not think that the “crisis” of today is any worse than those of past times and is probably much less that some of the things that have happened in the past.
 
Originally Posted by Eucharisted
Dear tradionalist Catholics,
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Throughout the Church’s history, she has had many terms for a Catholic in line with the teachings of his Mother and Teacher. To give but a short list of these terms, they were “orthodox”, “traditional,” and “faithful.” Here on CAF, the term traditional takes on a new world. It means “to practice ancient or forgotten devotions, to enjoy ancient church architecture and artwork, to long for the days of the First Vatican Council, and/or to be weary of what’s new”. QUOTE]
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Why am I not surprised to find yet another baiting post on the forum that is dedicated to discussing “Traditional Catholic Sprirtuality”? Eucharisted, it’s obvious that you have no clue about what Traditional Catholics want & who they are. If you did, you’d have no need to hunt for absurd reasons like “nostalgia”.

You are out of touch with modern Catholicism, yet claim to know why more & MORE of the faithful are pursuing it. You seem to have no idea what young Catholics want, so I believe that puts you in what I have defined as “over-the-hill white-haired hippies of the
60’s” category.Your days are on the way out & my advice to you is to quit hanging on to the past…do some reading & learn what is ahead for your Church &…instead of worrying so much about the “wrong” that others do…fix the problems within you.

[SIGN]nytimes.com/2009/08/11/us/11nun.html?_r=1

New Nuns and Priests Seen Opting for Tradition:
A new study of Roman Catholic nuns and priests in the United States shows that an aging, predominantly white generation is being succeeded by a smaller group of more racially and ethnically diverse recruits who are attracted to the religious orders that practice traditional prayer rituals and wear habits.

The study found that the graying of American nuns and priests was even more pronounced than many Catholics had realized. Ninety-one percent of nuns and 75 percent of priests are 60 or older, and most of the rest are at least 50. [/SIGN]

[SIGN]
newliturgicalmovement.org/
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
**Solemn Mass in the Carmelite Rite, Aylesford, **
by Shawn Tribe

Thanks to some of the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance in Great Britain and Ireland, I was recently able to acquire an archival recording from 1960 of a Solemn Mass according to the Carmelite rite at Aylesford Priory in England. The recording shows the Mass in its entirety. (Notice that this is called the NEW liturgical movement!) [/SIGN]

[SIGN]And here in the states: encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-170359748.html
Byline: Kristi Moore, **THE WASHINGTON TIMES **

Roman Catholic churches nationwide are rushing to accommodate a surge in demand for the traditional Latin Mass, which is drawing a surprising new crowd: young people.

Since July, when a decree from Pope Benedict XVI lifted decades-old restrictions on celebrating the Tridentine Mass, seven churches in the Washington metropolitan area have added the liturgy to their weekly Sunday schedules.

“I love the Latin Mass,” said Audrey Kunkel, 20, of Cincinnati. “It"s amazing to think that I"m attending the same Mass that has formed so many generations of Catholics, so many of our saints”.[/SIGN]

My advice to you is the same that I gave myself in the late 60’s…you can be an agent of change…or…a victim of change, but not both. I became an agent of change & embraced the Novus Ordo as long as I could. It took me about 10 yrs., to realize that the “New Church” was not working. So, the current movement is toward Traditional Catholicism. If, in 10 years we see that it’s not working…well, I’ll talk to you then.
 
CradleCath said:
Why am I not surprised to find yet another baiting post on the forum that is dedicated to discussing “Traditional Catholic Sprirtuality”? Eucharisted, it’s obvious that you have no clue about what Traditional Catholics want & who they are. If you did, you’d have no need to hunt for absurd reasons like “nostalgia”.

You are out of touch with modern Catholicism, yet claim to know why more & MORE of the faithful are pursuing it. You seem to have no idea what young Catholics want, so I believe that puts you in what I have defined as “over-the-hill white-haired hippies of the 60’s” category.Your days are on the way out & my advice to you is to quit hanging on to the past…do some reading & learn what is ahead for your Church &…instead of worrying so much about the “wrong” that others do…fix the problems within you.
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“Over-the-hill white-haired hippies of the 60’s category”

http://artofthemix.net/uploadimages/124286_old_hippie_very_old_hippies_1.jpg

"We’re nostalgic for the 60’s".
 
Ultima_Ratio said:
“Over-the-hill white-haired hippies of the 60’s category”

http://artofthemix.net/uploadimages/124286_old_hippie_very_old_hippies_1.jpg

"We’re nostalgic for the 60’s".
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LOVE IT!!, Ultima. It’s perfect except that the women always wear a scarf around their silver-blue hair that looks like this:

coveryourhair.com/tie-backs.html

That doesn’t look bad on the young girl wearing it in the photo, but picture it with silver-blue hair hanging down & a wrinkled neck.
 
CradleCath said:
LOVE IT!!, Ultima. It’s perfect except that the women always wear a scarf around their silver-blue hair that looks like this:

coveryourhair.com/tie-backs.html

That doesn’t look bad on the young girl wearing it in the photo, but picture it with silver-blue hair hanging down & a wrinkled neck.
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Perfect!

You won’t believe it, I located a younger picture of the old guy shown in the other picture I posted. This was taken as he was leaving a Novus Ordo mass in 1973.

http://www.bangitout.com/uploads/34haight-hippie.jpg

"I just Luv this new Mass, man. The Novus Ordo rocks!"
 
John_Grudzien said:
Your story above could’ve been written by me except that I didn’t have the guts you did and just quit going after ten years of burlap banners(with felt doves and pithy sayings, not scripture, cut out in felt letters) and dust laden organs. I would from time to time attend a NO Mass, usually on one of Our Lady’s feast days and usually ended up leaving after a tuneful, one your feet glass goblet Consecration, my very heart laying in broken shards (at the foot of the Sanctuary where the altar rail used to be) thinking that is this experimentation is ALL we could give to the One Who died for us?
Nostalgia Indeed!!! That’s something I reserve for old cars, old rock n’ roll and old movies, not the very core of my Faith!
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Great post. I was a bit more gullible & waited & hoped for 10 yrs… thinking it was going to get better. Sometime in the late 70’s I realized that this Church with no nuns, a Mass that celebrates mankind, & priests that asked to be called by their first name as they sang “Blowin’ in the wind” was IT!!! It didn’t get better & it wouldn’t get any better. In fact, it got worse. From that day on, I had to force myself to get up on Sun. & go to Mass. Would the priest bring props to use as he strolled up & down the aisle giving the “homily”, Would I be receiving the Eucharist from the woman up the street who smoked up a storm playing cards in my Mother’s club?? Would I be “regaled” once again with 50 year old Liturgical “dancers” as they performed the “dance of the great flood”??
I usually made it, but more & more I began to miss Mass for reasons that would never have kept me away before. Still, each Sun. I tried & most times I made it.

Last Sunday, on my way to the TLM., the engine light came on in my car & I had to turn back & missed Mass. I was heartsick, especially when I learned that it was just a faulty light & I could have gone on to the Traditional Mass at 12:30PM…the last Mass of the weekend. Not a great hour to go to Mass, but, since it’s the only Traditional Mass within 70 miles, I don’t care.

Now, these people come onto the Traditional Catholic forum & try to deduce why I’m fed up with the post-Vatican II Church?? Why I attend the TLM?? They do not know me, they won’t learn from me or anyone like myself. If they didn’t think that they knew so much already, they could learn much about their faith from people like you, me, Brotherholf, Layman & others like us.

As it is, they’ve chased so many Traditional Catholics off these forums. I remember “Dustin’s Dad”, “Paul F” & several others who had so much to offer, but gave up & left CA. Such a shame.
 
“Nostalgic” implies that the traditional ways are preferred purely for sentimental reasons. It is a lot more than that.

Traditionalism is more like a counter-reformation against banal and irreverent changes made by Catholics who used Vatican II as an excuse to replace the established way of doing things for something else, simply because something else was out of the established way of doing things. It is a counter-reformation against times that confused irreverence for intimacy and rejection of excellence for acceptance of frail humanity.

Traditionalism is a reaction against, yes, but a reaction against changes that were made no matter how banal they were, no matter what poor or non-existent scholarship they rested on, no matter how aesthetically impoverished they were, no matter how much they ignored the rich layers of meaning behind the established structure, no matter how ill-concieved they were, simply because the changes were changes.

Just like a great many changes whose infancy was rooted in the 60s and early 70s, he Church has seen many changes made for reasons as adolescent as those who were preaching “Never trust anyone over 30” at the time. Traditionalism is a reclamation of that which has withstood the test of time. Does the new sometimes get rejected by this counter-reformation as automatically as the New Age accepts it? Yes. Does nostalgia sometimes creep in? Absolutely. But that does not mean that traditionalism is nothing more than rejecting the new and plunging into sentimental approval of all things past. That is a trivialization of it. I think it misses the charism of the traditional-minded Catholic entirely.

So sorry, even though I don’t think one has to be a traditional Catholic to be a good Catholic, “Nostaligic Catholic” does not cut it.
 
Timothysis said:
So it would appear that one of the hallmarks of a “Traditionalist” Catholic is to return insult with insult…:rolleyes:
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Actually, one of the “hallmarks” of a Traditionalist Catholic is that we are quite used to taking abuse. I’ve been called an SSPXer, I’ve been told by a priest younger than my children to “get with it” as the USSCB would see to it that the TLM is never resurrected, etc. etc., ETC. Usually, it rolls off of my back. So…you might realize that, since this baiting thread with it’s absurd reason for Traditional Spirituality did NOT roll off my back…it is beyond the pale.

As one poster remarked I might be nostalgic for a REAL Chocolate Soda, $1.00 a gallon gasoline or movies without cussing & nudity. My Catholic faith, the faith that Christ, Himself gave us, No.
 
Dunno if this has been said already but can you be truly nostalgic for something you never had?

I was baptised in the old rite (huzzah!) but that’s about it.
 
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