Not “Scandalous” change my mind

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kneedy93

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  1. “Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try in all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved” CCC 2478, SE 22
Unfavorable and baseless speculation into the actions of other people is sinful behavior.

Scenario:
A young adult male and female enter a house together at 4:00 PM and don’t leave the house until 9:00 AM the next morning. The neighbor speculates that they have been unchaste.

As observers this is all we know about the situation but there is a world of speculation we can make. Are the young man and woman guilty of scandal? I contend that they are not.
 
I haven’t said anywhere that it was, if that is how you interpreted my post perhaps you should ask me to clarify. I am saying that the sin of scandal is being attributed to the man and the woman but I am asking someone to demonstrate how their behavior is scandalous.
 
Yes, please do tell us what the sin of scandal in this situation is, rather than just providing a negative.
 
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
 
F_Marturana said:
2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
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The very first part of this thread is a catechism quote. It would be in good spirit, charitable and reasonable to assume I know what the catechism says about scandal.
 
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kneedy93 said:
A young adult male and female enter a house together at 4:00 PM and don’t leave the house until 9:00 AM the next morning.
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Assuming that you’re referring to a Boyfriend and Girlfriend, it’s imprudent and “possibly” a near occasion of sin.
 
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Could you give a bit more information, how young? Who else is in the house? Are they related? etc
 
kneedy93 said:
The very first part of this thread is a catechism quote. It would be in good spirit, charitable and reasonable to assume I know what the catechism says about scandal.
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You should have quoted that passage as well, in order to narrow down your question. Your original question was broad. Now it is clearer.
 
GiftofMercy said:
Could you give a bit more information, how young? Who else is in the house? Are they related? etc
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The additional unknown information is part of my point. I’ve frequently heard the claim by other Catholic individuals that these scenarios are scandalous, so the individuals are guilty of scandal because they might assume the individuals are having sex. I am suggesting that without definite knowledge of what those individuals did or did not do, the speculations of those observers are not the responsibility of the party being observed. The reason being there are so many conceivable situations, such as them being related, or some other situations and even then, how is that better? Incest is something that occurs. With today’s culture there are also many mixed families and these families cohabit, is it scandalous for a widows children to cohabit with her husbands children, or for people with kids to adopt? Is the guilt not that of the peer for speculating some evil is being done, whether or not they are correct?
 
Beryllos said:
You should have quoted that passage as well, in order to narrow down your question. Your original question was broad. Now it is clearer.
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I gave a particular scenario and my opinion. There are plenty of implicit things that I could have mentioned and chose not to for the sake of being concise. Would you like to try to change my mind or criticize my methodology?
 
kneedy93 said:
The additional unknown information is part of my point. I’ve frequently heard the claim by other Catholic individuals that these scenarios are scandalous, so the individuals are guilty of scandal because they might assume the individuals are having sex. I am suggesting that without definite knowledge of what those individuals did or did not do, the speculations of those observers are not the responsibility of the party being observed. The reason being there are so many conceivable situations, such as them being related, or some other situations and even then, how is that better? Incest is something that occurs. With today’s culture there are also many mixed families and these families cohabit, is it scandalous for a widows children to cohabit with her husbands children, or for people with kids to adopt? Is the guilt not that of the peer for speculating some evil is being done, whether or not they are correct?
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I think you are referring to gossip. Look up what Pope Francis says about gossip.

Apart from that it is impossible to answer your question without more detail.
 
GiftofMercy said:
I think you are referring to gossip. Look up what Pope Francis says about gossip.

Apart from that it is impossible to answer your question without more detail.
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Respectfully, I am not referring to gossip. I am challenging the idea that if someone sees a young man and woman spend the night together in a house that that young man and woman have sinned because of the scandal they have caused.

You are being polite and charitable so for the sake of this conversation being fruitful let’s advance our knowledge of the scenario.

The young man and woman are engaged, they have had sex before but grew in faith together and are practicing chastity. They are tempted sometimes but work together to strengthen each other in resolve when one is feeling weak. They are spending the night because they moved a long distance from each other and want to spend time together before the marriage/ before relocating to the same city before marriage is complete. There will be other adults present at some times when they are together and they will not be sharing a bed.

What sins would any of you propose they may be guilty of? I am expecting some people to say near ocassion of sin but again, I don’t agree.
 
Depends on how many people know about the situation – including younger siblings.
 
kneedy93 said:
I am challenging the idea that if someone sees a young man and woman spend the night together in a house that that young man and woman have sinned because of the scandal they have caused.
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Some will think that, and some will not. You cannot control what everyone thinks.
 
I think that a young man and woman would do well to protect their reputations and good names. Why not sleep somewhere else, not under the same roof? Especially because cohabiting is so common in our society in various forms, I think these young people could assume that’s what any observer might think. I think a serious Christian would try harder to not give the impression that they are sleeping with their boyfriend / girlfriend.
 
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Loud-living-dogma said:
I think that a young man and woman would do well to protect their reputations and good names. Why not sleep somewhere else, not under the same roof? Especially because cohabiting is so common in our society in various forms, I think these young people could assume that’s what any observer might think. I think a serious Christian would try harder to not give the impression that they are sleeping with their boyfriend / girlfriend.
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The two people moved to separate states after becoming engaged. They are seeking parishes that will allow them to marry in six months. He will be moving to the same city as her in three months. The planned visit is for a week before school starts. In the three months between living in the same city they will probably see each other two other times, one other time will be for a week and it will be in Ukraine.
 
Everyone should attribute the best possible intention to the persons involved (a teaching of St. Ignantius of Loyola), and, unless there is some connection to the couple, they should mind their own business.

Christ our True God knows everything we do,
Deacon Christopher
 
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