Not a Catholic, needing help to witness FOR Catholicsm!

  • Thread starter Thread starter WiccanWoman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WiccanWoman

Guest
PART 1 OF 2

If this is the wrong place for this, Mods, please move my question to where it might better be seen/answered.

I need some (name removed by moderator)ut from knowledgeable Catholic folk who practice their religion, and who feel they are doing so in a proper fashion.

I know a family which consists of a man and woman who have two sons together, Pat and Joe. The wife has a daughter from a prior marriage (divorced; no annulment), and that daughter is in her early 20s. She has ADD, ADHD and ODD, and their relationship with her is not a healthy one. It involves a lot of anger and bitter words, and sometimes physical disrespect of the body and personal property.

The wife in ths couple is adopted. Her parents are deceased. She has no knowledge of her medical or geneological history. It was very important to her to have her own biological children in order to have someone who is “really related” to her.

The husband is one of 7 children, whose mother murdered his father by use of a shotgun. He is an ex-Marine. He left the Marines and became an attorney - partnering with an older brother, for whom he has little respect (which he regrets every day). During law school, he gained an enormous amount of weight. At peak, he weighed at least 425 pounds (only 5’6" tall). (NOTE - this is when I met him.)

The couple met and fell in love despite his weight, and they married, but not in the church. They continue to delay making the “proper” attempts to be able to do so because they have “too much to do” in their lives.

He claims Catholicism is the one true religion. He was baptized as an infant. He is knowledgeable and intelligent, and can discuss his faith with history, facts and wit, yet he does not attend church. He insists that all other religions are false, and sometimes uses disparaging remarks in a “lighthearted” way (i.e., calling someone a “cheap Jew” when they don’t want to buy lunch, telling an Evangelical Christian that they are going to go to Hell because they don’t have the sacraments, etc.).

His first-born son Pat attends public school as he is in special-ed (for autism, ADD, etc.). I respectfully suggest he has Asberger’s, as he displays most of the symptoms. Without going into the methods used, he father battled fiercely for Pat’s health, and so far, he is winning. After a few years of non-verbal communication, stimming, humming, etc., his son now displays brilliant intelligence and interaction with others, but he is not 100% “normal” for lack of a better word.

They had both of their sons baptized by a Judge who is a deacon (?) of the Catholic church. At least one of the sons was conceived via IVF (the younger one).

This gentleman - AND his elder brother with whom he has partnered in business - had weight-loss surgery. (His brother is taller, and weighed about 500 lbs. when we met.) They were able to bypass the rules of having to diet first, etc., by having a relative who is a prominent physician falsify records that they had attended psych. counseling, that food regulation didn’t help, etc. They both underwent a surgery called the Duodenal Bypass - duodenalswitch.com/procedure/procedure.html

This surgery “rearranges the small intestine to separate the flow of food from the flow of bile and pancreatic juices. This inhibits the absorption of calories and some nutrients. Further down the digestive tract, these divided intestinal paths are rejoined; food and digestive juices begin to mix, and limited fat absorption occurs in the common tract as the food continues on its path toward the large intestine.” They are required to take numerous vitamins and consume at least 6,000 calories a day in order not to LOSE weight.

PART 2 TO FOLLOW…
 
PART 2 OF 2

He is thrilled. I see what this man eats on a daily basis, and how he eats it as well. He constantly tells people he meets that his “fat boy surgery” is a miracle, and it enables him to eat all he wants as often as he wants. When he meets folks who are heavy, he asks “Why don’t you have the surgery?” If they advise him that they are working out or dieting, he responds that such behaviors are a waste of valuable time and effort, that science gave him the real answer. Effectively, he laughs at them as he eats his two double-cheeseburgers, french fries, onion rings and cake for lunch… and is still laughing two hours later when the Mr. Softee truck comes around, and he orders his double-vanilla cone dipped in chocolate sprinkles… before he heads home to have dinner… dessert… and a pre-bedtime snack. He wakes up in the morning, hungry and ready for breakfast… all… over… again. It’s as if food is his life. He makes cruel sport of his wife who is not by any means “fat.” He says such things to her as “keep talking, keeeep taaaalking (while moving his fingers in the air)” when she tries to discuss topics he wants no part of, and he’ll call up the stairs, saying “Hey! I don’t I hear you on that treadmill!” (- which he bought her as a birthday gift!!!). He even suggested that she eat enormously to become morbidly obese so her insurance would cover the surgery and she could “get the body of Adriana Lima” (a model he admires) and they could get their private life back in order. (She ignores him.) No lie, they must spend thousands of dollars on food that goes right into his mouth… and then half an hour later, right out his other end. Is this not gluttony? Is food not fuel? A tool to be enjoyed but respected? Aren’t we all as citizens of the Planet Earth supposed to be stewards and not abusers of resources? (As a Pagan/Wiccan, this concept his means a great deal to me. NOTE: he does not recycle. Says it’s a waste of time and energy. He outright says he doesn’t care what happens after he dies because his soul will be fine, and he’ll be leaving the planet behind for someone else to worry about. I mean, he has CHILDREN! Won’t they be that “someone else?”)

When he and I talk - and we do so deeply, and often, and about many subjects including theology, philosophy, religion, etc., for hours at a time - I sometimes respectfully suggest that maybe he is not leading a very “Catholic” life… and maybe that is what he needs after all. He just shakes his head. He’s got it made as far as he is concerned just because he “is” Catholic. But is he happy? Content? No. He admits to me that he is neither, and that he has been neither since he was a Marine… and that if it wasn’t for his sons, he would just walk away from everything because he misses being alone and unmolested (not sexually). He can’t stand going home after work to have domestic demands made upon him by his family. He says he loves his sons, but that he regrets having them, and he regrets getting married altogether. He says it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. This makes me so sad. He means a lot to me. He is a real friend.

If his Catholicism is that important to him, then why isn’t he running to it? It should be part of his joy and his strength!

Please, may I have some (name removed by moderator)ut here? What can I say to counsel him? I really do think he is suffering, and because of that, his family suffers as well.

Namaste.
 
St. Paul tells us to say something once or twice, then leave it alone. So, just encourage
him to return to the Sacraments he preaches so much. We Catholics need the Sacraments
to live.
 
I didn’t read all of the details as I don’t think they are important for me to know. I get the gist. He is not a joyful, happy Catholic. Sinning tends to wear us down and it separates us from the source of our joy, Jesus. Try to remember that the Church is not a home for saints, it is a hospital for sinners. He needs prayer, he needs encouragement. Pray for your friend. . Teach him this simple prayer, “Lord, increase my faith.”

If he is not, at the least, going to mass, it’s no wonder that he is nominally Catholic. Our souls are like plants, if they are not shown the sun/son, fed and watered, they will wither and die.

I’ll pray for your friend.
 
Different people are on different paths in their journey towards God. I remember in my 20s loving my religion yet being too lazy to go to church. Looking back, it makes absolutely no sense but on the other hand, at the time it did make sense in my mind.

I do not know why he does not go but my advice is to pray for him. However, I do need say I find it odd that you went into so much detail about what he eats. Honestly, it would have sufficed to say ‘He has bad eating habits’. But the level of detail you went into shows you pay a LOT of attention to his eating habits. I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt you were ‘way too much in his face’. People who feel like that will rebel against any help offered. I would let go of what he eats, I would let go of how he lives his life and just encourage him to believe in himself

Angie
 
Anglewannabe said:
Honestly, it would have sufficed to say ‘He has bad eating habits’. But the level of detail you went into shows you pay a LOT of attention to his eating habits. I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt you were ‘way too much in his face’. People who feel like that will rebel against any help offered. I would let go of what he eats, I would let go of how he lives his life and just encourage him to believe in himself

Angie
Click to expand...
I felt it needed the detail especially because it seems to be part of the issue, in that he is the one who speaks of it almost daily. Also, I thought it is related to an actual “sin” (gluttony?) and “bad eating habits” is not.

He does not “rebel” against help in the least, but thinks he’s fine. That is what is so sad. But many thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂

PS - I pay attention because most days, he eats in my office. He is my boss as well as my friend. :o
 
I’ve never heard of any weight loss surgery that allows a person to eat whatever he wants - & 6000 calories, at that!

Generally, they have to eat tiny meals.

Sounds like he’s in denial of a lot of things. 😦
 
Bonnie said:
I’ve never heard of any weight loss surgery that allows a person to eat whatever he wants - & 6000 calories, at that!
Generally, they have to eat tiny meals.
Sounds like he’s in denial of a lot of things. 😦
Click to expand...
My best friend had that surgery several years ago – this guy is way off the mark.

Frankly, the way you say he talks to his wife and to other people, I’m surprised you consider him a friend. I couldn’t. You’ve told him what you think, he’s not listening; all that’s left is to pray for him. And for his family.
 
You say he thinks he has it all together because he is Catholic, but being Catholic is about a lot more than a title.

Encourage him to return to mass and the sacraments.

If he has not gone to mass in years he probably has not gone to confession either and the only thing that can separate us from the love of God is ourselves. We can turn away and live in our sins. Active participation on the sacraments helps realign our souls with Christ.

Perhaps you can kindly share these verses with him that I believe sum up our struggle and goal well.

Galations 5:13-18

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”** 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.**
 
Perhaps asking your friend to explain to you different aspects about Catholic precepts might get him thinking. Something like, “I’d like to know more about why the Catholic Church says it is a mortal sin for Catholics to miss mass. Why is that? Is that true under all circumstances, like if you’re sick? That doesn’t seem right. What is a mortal sin anyway? How does that differ from other kinds of sins? What other kinds are there, anyway?” It seems like he takes pride in knowledge, so maybe these questions will lead him to learn about the reasons so he can give you the answers, and lead him the live more fully what he claims to be.

Maybe you’ve tried this already. You seem very intelligent and logical, just judging from your posts here. If so, great minds think alike 😃
 
WiccanWoman said:
I felt it needed the detail especially because it seems to be part of the issue, in that he is the one who speaks of it almost daily. Also, I thought it is related to an actual “sin” (gluttony?) and “bad eating habits” is not.

He does not “rebel” against help in the least, but thinks he’s fine. That is what is so sad. But many thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂

PS - I pay attention because most days, he eats in my office. He is my boss as well as my friend. :o
Click to expand...
Have you tried looking into addictive behaviour? Some people are willing to give up everything in life as long as they get to keep their vice. This could also be why he avoids his religion, because all he hears when he goes to church is that “gluttony is a sin” and feels like they will take away his “one thing” that gets him through life.
 
“He claims Catholicism is the one true religion.” But he refuses to follow her precepts, to live as a true Catholic.

“If his Catholicism is that important to him, then why isn’t he running to it?”

Because he knows that he will have to seek an annulment. Without one, he is committing adultery.

Because he knows that he will have to repent using IVF. First, they conceived outside of the sex act (which is wrong); second, most embryos conceived in a dish die, and that’s abortion. (That doesn’t mean he has to reject his child that was conceived that way.)

Because he knows he will be told that, unless he returns to the Sacraments, he is denying that the Church is the surest way to heaven.

And his acceptance of IVF makes me think that he is probably OK with artificial birth control. For a reasoned argument for the Church’s point of view, go here and scroll down to “Contraception Contribution?” and read to the end. (Who knows, maybe it will get you to think seriously about birth control!. It helped me. Of course, when I began to come into the Church, it was because I kept finding her right about things, so I decided to trust that she was right about that, also. This article just helped me make the jump.)

And you can call him on this one: “…telling an Evangelical Christian that they are going to go to Hell because they don’t have the sacraments, etc).” He’s got a lot of nerve saying that, because he doesn’t have the sacraments either, except Baptism and maybe Confirmation. If he acted (or planned to act) as he does now at the time of his Confirmation, he doesn’t even have that.

Hope this helps.

P.S. If you want to know more, for yourself, please PM me.
:blessyou:
 
Ruthie
Tiber Swim Team '06

That’s a great signature! :extrahappy:
 
Perhaps he realizes, that by becoming an active Catholic again, more will be expected of him, and he will more often hear (generally, homilies and such) how things he has chosen/likes to do/whatever are wrong.

He may not be ready to change from his current lifestyle yet.

Some things you mention are troubling; some really have no incompatibilities with being Catholic at all.
 
Aggies08 said:
Some things you mention are troubling; some really have no incompatibilities with being Catholic at all.
Click to expand...
Actually, most of them DO have incompatibilities with Catholicism. Some examples:
  1. Gluttony. 100% this man is committing gluttony. He’s eating to excess, and I am very surprised that there is any surgery out there that would require him to eat 6000 calories/day. Generally, your average man needs about 2500 calories/day and your average woman needs about 2000. When you consider that one gram of fat contains 3500 calories, he should effectively be putting on a pound a day with a diet of 6000 calories.
  2. IVF. This is indeed incompatible with Church teaching. Children are a gift from God; consequently you do not have a RIGHT to have children just because you want them. IVF does not require the couple to be unitive (i.e. through the marital act) in order to have children. Consequently, they are conceived through a scientist putting a sperm and egg together in a petri dish - where’s the gift of self in that? (However, the PP is right - this does not mean that he can reject his child who was born from that procedure. My stepdaughter was the product of an imprudent decision made by my husband and his ex-wife. We both love her very much even though she was conceived out of wedlock and born in a marriage that was later declared invalid. It’s possible she may have been the only good thing that came out of that relationship, just as his son might be the only good thing that came out of that procedure.)
  3. Treatment of his wife. The Church teaches that the head of the woman is the man, and the head of the man is Christ. This does not mean that the woman is supposed to lie down and be a doormat, rather it means that she is to respect her husband’s position as head and spiritual priest of the family. She is to submit to him as the Church submits to Christ. At the same time, he is required to love her as Christ loves the Church. He is required to pour out his life for her sake, as Christ poured Himself out to death on the Cross. If he refuses to do this, he’ll have to answer to HIS head - Christ Himself.
  4. Judging others unjustly. While we are expected to evangelize, that does not mean that you go around telling people they’re going to hell. You don’t have the right to do that because you don’t know what’s in their hearts. “Evangelization” means doing the work of God and demonstrating by your actions your faith. You only speak of it in situations where it is appropriate to do so, such as to engage in respectful dialogue with others or if you’re specifically asked about it. Otherwise, you work for the conversion of sinners through prayer and sacrifice.
  5. Not practicing his faith. He is required to keep the chief precepts of the Church. This means he is to attend Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation, confess his mortal sins (sins that destroy sanctifying grace in our souls) at least once a year, receive Holy Communion at least during the Easter season, fast and abstain on appointed days (abstain from meat on every Friday during Lent and as directed by his local bishop, add fasting to this on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday), respect Church law concerning marriage, and contribute to the support of pastors. (Incidentally there is not much involved in them getting an annulment. My husband had to go through one, and all he had to do was fill out some forms, give them to his priest, add an extra document that the tribunal requested, and go in ONCE for an interview. That was it. I think we probably spent almost as much time and energy checking the mail for the responses as he did on the actual work 🙂 The rest is handled by the tribunal. It isn’t even a formal “court case” - most of the actual communication is done in writing. If he’s worried about cost, they can get expensive, but no one is ever turned away based solely on their ability to pay. Something can usually be worked out.) After the annulment is completed, he and his wife can have their marriage convalidated through a simple Church ceremony, or they can see the priest and fill out the forms required for a radical sanation, which requires only paperwork.
  6. Poor stewardship. It sounds as if the vast majority of his practices are based around poor stewardship. While the recycling is not specifically mandated by Catholic teaching (to the best of my knowledge), we ARE required to practice good stewardship. The earth does not belong to us; it is a gift that is given to us and we are required to act as stewards, or caretakers, of it. He is demonstrating poor stewardship with regards to his eating habits, his wife, and his family.
I think what it really boils down to is that this man does not want to accept the fact that life requires two things: sacrifice and suffering. This does not mean that we go out of our way to suffer, but rather that we sacrifice ourselves for the sake of God and others and we endure suffering as a consequence of that sacrifice.
 
You’re right. Pardon me, I meant to say one POUND of fat. One GRAM of fat does, indeed, have mine calories.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top