Not all non-Catholics are full blown Protestants

[Traveller1534]

I was a cradle Catholic up until three years ago in which I and my wife and son converted to the Episcopal church. I would have to say that to call us Protestants and lump us together with the likes of Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah’s Witnesses would be illogical andmean spirited. We too consider ourselves catholic because we maintain the creeds, the eucharist and ancient tradition along with all 7 (not just 2) sacrements. We too have sacremental confession, make the sign of the cross, baptize infants and proclaim the eucharist to be the REAL PRESENCE of Jesus Christ. I don’t believe that you would find those CATHOLIC qualities and quantities in a Pentecostal church.

Traveller 1534ad

 

[Sabda]

The Episcopal church came from the Angelican Church of England which was started by King Henry VIII when the pope refused to allow him to divorce his wife Catherine of Aargon. King Henry VIII left the beliefs pretty much intact except for replacing himself as head of the church. All this happened during the time of the Reformation. So yes, your Protestant.

 

[Traveller1534]

The Episcopal church came from the Angelican Church of England which was started by King Henry VIII when the pope refused to allow him to divorce his wife Catherine of Aargon. King Henry VIII left the beliefs pretty much intact except for replacing himself as head of the church. All this happened during the time of the Reformation. So yes, your Protestant.

And you are wrong. The Reformation began because the Catholic church was abusing people and justifying it because they maintained that they were solely the Church of Christ. King Henry’s divorce form the King of Spain’s daughter was a product of it. Thomas Cranmer was actually the first Archbishop of Canterbury after the split from Rome. The Archbishop is still the head of the Anglican communion today. The Anglican church is protestant in the fact that it split from Rome but also Catholic in how it has maintained the Liturgy and style of worship along with the 7 sacrements.

 

[Rawb]

First off, you’re not in the same group with Jehovah’s Witnesses because you are a Christian, and they are not.

Second: Do you accept the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, as the the head of Christ’s Church and hold him to be infallible on matters of faith and morals when addressing the whole church and speaking from his position as Peter’s successor?

 

[Traveller1534]

I do not accept the pope on these things but that doesn’t make me not Catholic, it only makes me not Roman Catholic. Catholic means universal, it doesn’t mean only one single denomination is correct on all matters of faith.

 

[Contarini]

And you are wrong. The Reformation began because the Catholic church was abusing people and justifying it because they maintained that they were solely the Church of Christ. King Henry’s divorce form the King of Spain’s daughter was a product of it. Thomas Cranmer was actually the first Archbishop of Canterbury after the split from Rome. The Archbishop is still the head of the Anglican communion today. The Anglican church is protestant in the fact that it split from Rome but also Catholic in how it has maintained the Liturgy and style of worship along with the 7 sacrements.

But the 39 Articles explicitly teach that there are only two sacraments in the strict sense.

How Henry’s divorce/annulment resulted from the Catholic church abusing people is beyond me.

Sure, there was corruption and abuse in the Church–there always is. Start down that road and you have schism without end.

Edwin

 

[Rawb]

I do not accept the pope

Protestant.

You are part of the Catholic church in the sense that your Baptism makes you a part of the Catholic church. If you do not accept the head of the Church, however, you are not fully Catholic. If you only want aknowledgement for being part of the universal aspect of the church, then say you are baptised and we recognize that statement as such. Or just say your are part of the universal church. I’m sorry but as long as you protest the authority of the pope, you are protestant.

 

[mark_a]

The Anglican church is protestant in the fact that it split from Rome but also Catholic in how it has maintained the Liturgy and style of worship along with the 7 sacrements.

How y’all doing in maintaining the Catholic moral teachings?

 

[Sabda]

And you are wrong. The Reformation began because the Catholic church was abusing people and justifying it because they maintained that they were solely the Church of Christ.

Where there are people there will ALWAYS BE SIN!!! Are you sinless? Do you claim perfection? The claim the Church makes about being the Church that Christ started had nothing to do with the Reformation. The Reformation came about because of people sinning, pure and simple. Even some of the Refomers admitted the Church was started by Christ and that the Scriptures came out of the Church.

King Henry’s divorce form the King of Spain’s daughter was a product of it.

King Henry’s divorce was the Church’s fault??? The Church was telling King Henry that he could not divorce his wife. Are you aware that he wanted to divorce her for another woman? You see no problem with that?

Thomas Cranmer was actually the first Archbishop of Canterbury after the split from Rome. The Archbishop is still the head of the Anglican communion today. The Anglican church is protestant in the fact that it split from Rome but also Catholic in how it has maintained the Liturgy and style of worship along with the 7 sacrements

Maintaining the Liturgy and style does not make one Catholic. It’s in the beliefs that make one Catholic.

You were original complaining about lumping all non-Catholic Christians as Protestant but in the above quote you admit that you are?

 

[GKC]

But the 39 Articles explicitly teach that there are only two sacraments in the strict sense.

How Henry’s divorce/annulment resulted from the Catholic church abusing people is beyond me.

Sure, there was corruption and abuse in the Church–there always is. Start down that road and you have schism without end.

Edwin

Aw, Edwin, I don’t want to have to do the 39 Articles again.

GKC

 

[GKC]

How y’all doing in maintaining the Catholic moral teachings?

Some Anglicans are doing moderately ok.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[GKC]

Where there are people there will ALWAYS BE SIN!!! Are you sinless? Do you claim perfection? The claim the Church makes about being the Church that Christ started had nothing to do with the Reformation. The Reformation came about because of people sinning, pure and simple. Even some of the Refomers admitted the Church was started by Christ and that the Scriptures came out of the Church.

King Henry’s divorce was the Church’s fault??? The Church was telling King Henry that he could not divorce his wife. Are you aware that he wanted to divorce her for another woman? You see no problem with that?

Maintaining the Liturgy and style does not make one Catholic. It’s in the beliefs that make one Catholic.

You were original complaining about lumping all non-Catholic Christians as Protestant but in the above quote you admit that you are?

And I’m not going to do the history of the annulment/impediment/dispensation system, as it was operating in the 16th century. Part of it is in the “Henry VIII Train Wreck” thread. Even I get exhausted, eventually.

GKC

 

[Contarini]

Aw, Edwin, I don’t want to have to do the 39 Articles again.

GKC

When Anglo-Catholics make generalizations about Anglicanism, I will bring up the Articles, because they served for centuries as a statement of what Anglicans believe. I’m quite aware that they do not function that way today.

But Anglicans in the late 16th century were quite sure that they were Protestants, and that the Articles expressed their particular way of being Protestant.

Edwin

 

[GKC]

When Anglo-Catholics make generalizations about Anglicanism, I will bring up the Articles, because they served for centuries as a statement of what Anglicans believe. I’m quite aware that they do not function that way today.

But Anglicans in the late 16th century were quite sure that they were Protestants, and that the Articles expressed their particular way of being Protestant.

Edwin

The Articles expressed Elizabeth’s peculiar way of running a Church.

And you may be aware, but lots of other folks are not. I keep getting them thrust at me as a form of definitive Confession. As you know.

BTW, what Anglo-Catholic is posting in this thread?

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[Contarini]

The Articles expressed Elizabeth’s peculiar way of running a Church.

And you may be aware, but lots of other folks are not. I keep getting them thrust at me as a form of definitive Confession. As you know.

BTW, what Anglo-Catholic is posting in this thread?

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

I don’t think Traveller is a real Anglo-Catholic (not in the sense you are). But he’s striking the Anglo-Catholic pose and claiming that Anglicanism holds to all 7 sacraments. That’s an Anglo-Catholic argument. One of the reasons I bothered citing the Articles is that I don’t think he’s thought through his position very carefully–he sounds very AC at times and very Protestant at others. I know what you think of the Articles and wouldn’t cite them against you!

Edwin

 

[GKC]

I don’t think Traveller is a real Anglo-Catholic (not in the sense you are). But he’s striking the Anglo-Catholic pose and claiming that Anglicanism holds to all 7 sacraments. That’s an Anglo-Catholic argument. One of the reasons I bothered citing the Articles is that I don’t think he’s thought through his position very carefully–he sounds very AC at times and very Protestant at others. I know what you think of the Articles and wouldn’t cite them against you!

Edwin

Fair enough.

And I’m not sure just what flavor Traveller might be, myself. Does seem to be some contradictory notes in the tune.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[Efrain]

I was a cradle Catholic up until three years ago in which I and my wife and son converted to the Episcopal church. I would have to say that to call us Protestants and lump us together with the likes of Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah’s Witnesses would be illogical andmean spirited. We too consider ourselves catholic because we maintain the creeds, the eucharist and ancient tradition along with all 7 (not just 2) sacrements. We too have sacremental confession, make the sign of the cross, baptize infants and proclaim the eucharist to be the REAL PRESENCE of Jesus Christ. I don’t believe that you would find those CATHOLIC qualities and quantities in a Pentecostal church.

Traveller 1534ad

Is your church apostolic?

 

[forthefaith77]

To an outsider Anglicanism does seem to be the closet to the Roman Catholic Church. What happened to the very blunt and out of blue news reports about and reunited church with Catholics? It seems impossible to reunite the catholic church with baptists, lutherans or most protestants exepct the COE.

 

[GKC]

Is your church apostolic?

I’ll answer.

Anglicans say yes, *Apostolicae Curae *says no.

GKC

 

[Montalban]

And you are wrong. The Reformation began because the Catholic church was abusing people and justifying it because they maintained that they were solely the Church of Christ. King Henry’s divorce form the King of Spain’s daughter was a product of it.

How was this a Catholic abuse given that divorce was not possible in the Catholic church?

Thomas Cranmer was actually the first Archbishop of Canterbury after the split from Rome. The Archbishop is still the head of the Anglican communion today. The Anglican church is protestant in the fact that it split from Rome but also Catholic in how it has maintained the Liturgy and style of worship along with the 7 sacrements.

So you agree that your church is Protestant