Not catholic, not protestant

[AquinasXVI]

Alfie:

Please quote me where in your King James Bible did Jesus say to the apostles to put together books and that will be all you need for salvation? If that is the foundation of Sola Scriptura-then Jesus has to say it somewhere.

Looking forward to your reply.

in XT.

 

[Sherlock]

Alfie:

Well, I certainly can understand why you left the Lutheran church. What exactly drew you to the Catholic religion… Tradition? There is more to being a Christian than Tradition. Being sorry for your sins is the key to being a Christian and not man-made religion. I realise that the Lutherans are way too liberal but you could have found a Bible believing church like the Baptist or Penacostal. You have everthing you need to know to be a Christian just by reading your King James Bible. Why make things so complicated? Have you actually read a Bible?

Baptists and “Penacostals” are man-made religions. They are simply offshoots from earlier Protestant groups.

 

[Alfie]

AquinasXVI:

Alfie:

Please quote me where in your King James Bible did Jesus say to the apostles to put together books and that will be all you need for salvation? If that is the foundation of Sola Scriptura-then Jesus has to say it somewhere.

Looking forward to your reply.

in XT.

All scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There was always a Jewish prophet alive during the time each book of the Bible was written. There weren’t any Jewish prophets alive during the time that the apocrypha was written… therefore the apocrypha is false.

Revelations 22:18 and 22:19 God warns people not to add or detract from the Bible.

 

[Alfie]

Sherlock:

Baptists and “Penacostals” are man-made religions. They are simply offshoots from earlier Protestant groups.

Most Protestant denominations have more things in common with each other than differences. Whether Baptist, Penacostal, Methodist,etc… they all believe you must be born again. Protestants usually disagree with each other over minor points that are not key to salvation.

Jehovah Witness and Mormon religions are not Protestant they are cults.

 

[captaincoog]

Alfie, thanks for your contribution to the discussion. May I add a word of encouragement?

Please try to find out a little more about the CC and what it teaches before you try to disprove it. Remember the command “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”? I think you need to be a little careful about what you say.

It seems to me, (and I may well be wrong) that you’ve heard or read a bunch of stuff about the CC that you believe to be true, but is not. I am not sure if your posts sound as though you have arrived at your conclusions yourself, and that you have come here to try to trump the Catholics with some stumping comments.
I can assure you, they have all been well and truly answered thoroughly both here and elsewhere.

I left the Baptist church, after leaving the AOG, when I relaised that though there were many sincere and good people there, they could not teach what the Bible said with absolute certainty they were right. The Catholic church can and does.

Who do think had St pauls letter to the Romans before the Protestants got hold of it? None but the CC and the Orthodox churches in the East. With fifteen centuries in their sole guardianship, why didn’t they destroy all copies of it. It is supposed to be the antithesis of Catholicism, right? Justification by faith alone, no? No one else was around - they could have burned every hand made copy, and no protestant would hav ever been the wiser. But no, when interpreted properly, it is pure Catholic teaching, and had been for fifteen centuries before the reformation.

St Peter warns of men twisting scripture to THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION! Tell me, who is more qualified to give the proper understanding of a book of the Bible - the Church who had the book and the person who wrote it in their company from the very beginning, or someone twenty centuries later with a high school ed? I am not trying to get into a fight, but to help you begin to think things through more clearly.

The OP is sincerely searching for the truth, and has come to one of the best places to help him on his journey.

Alfie, please do some homework on church history before you make any more of these comments and claims. It doesn’t help your cause.

 

[deb1]

Alfie:

Most Protestant denominations have more things in common with each other than differences. Whether Baptist, Penacostal, Methodist,etc… they all believe you must be born again. Protestants usually disagree with each other over minor points that are not key to salvation.

Jehovah Witness and Mormon religions are not Protestant they are cults.

Could you supply me with a list of Protestant denomination that believe the correct manner about salvation etc. I have heard many protestants say this but when you begin to ask questions the list of acceptable denominations get more narrow. Lutherans for example, in a previous post you seemed to not have a great deal of trust in Lutherans.

Also, I don’t like to call Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons cults. I don’t neccessarily consider them Christians but I think that a cult is more about mind control and dominance, not beliefs that are different then ours.

 

[deb1]

Alfie:

You need to get yourself a King James Bible. The first book of the Bible you should read is Romans which is located in the New Testament. The book of Romans will tell you everything you need to know on how to be saved.

I am coming from a KJV only, Independent Baptist church. I have read the bible and still try and read it everyday. It is partially the bible that has led me to the Catholic church.

Why not pick one of the Gospels, the works on the life of Jesus, to tell people what to do to be saved?

 

[mercygate]

Alfie:

Most Protestants that convert to the Catholic religion are more interested in ritual than a relationship with God.

You can’t be serious. Where did you get this information?
The Catholic religion is very beautiful and mystical but that is not what gets you to heaven. It is a personal relationship with Jesus. What is “mystical” if not a personal relationship with Jesus?

First you must aknowledge that you are a sinner and repent of your sins. You must be sincere in your repentence and turn away from those sins. The only way you can truly repent of your sins is if the Holy Spirit is convicting you of sin. Your conviction will be unbearable. If you are truly sorry for your sins the next step is to ask God to forgive you.

Catholics understand all of that perfectly and do it all the time; and we bring it to the God-breathed Sacrament of Confession, where we hear the sweet words of absolution and receive our Lord’s mercy in a deeply personal way. Don’t knock it if you have never experienced it.

Anyone here will be glad to point you in the direction of learning what the Catholic faith is REALLY about. It couldn’t hurt if you were to make some effort at understanding the Catholic faith before mounting these tired old canards against it. I am sure that you are not even aware that the stuff you say about Catholicism is so far off the mark as to be irresponsible.

 

[deb1]

Alfie:

Well, I certainly can understand why you left the Lutheran church. What exactly drew you to the Catholic religion… Tradition? There is more to being a Christian than Tradition.?

You seem to believe that traditions is a dirty word. Yet, unless you are creating your SUnday service from scratch every single week then you are engaging in traditions. Meeting on Wednesday is a tradition, having youth groups is a tradition, a wedding ring and even the wedding ceremony is a tradition. There are nothing wrong with these traditions but they are still traditions.

 

[mercygate]

Alfie:

All scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There was always a Jewish prophet alive during the time each book of the Bible was written. There weren’t any Jewish prophets alive during the time that the apocrypha was written… therefore the apocrypha is false.

Revelations 22:18 and 22:19 God warns people not to add or detract from the Bible.

So, you haven’t answered AquinasXVI’s question: where in the Bible does it list the table of contents? And since the table of contents wasn’t compiled until nearly 400 years after Revelation was written, the verses you cite can refer only to Revelation. (Not “Revelations” – this sort of thing makes one blush for your challenge to mylo: “Have you actually read a Bible?”)

I would be interested in knowing more about the prophets associated with the non-prophetic parts of the OT canon.

 

[awfulthings9]

Alfie:

You need to get yourself a King James Bible. The first book of the Bible you should read is Romans which is located in the New Testament. The book of Romans will tell you everything you need to know on how to be saved.

Wow! You mean that, even though God inspired ALL those books in the Bible, everything you need to know is in Romans??? I guess Luther was right - James really is an epistle of straw. How cool that all I really need to read to get to heaven is one little book. I can carry it around in my pocket and throw the rest away. And, of course, I would only want to use the KJ Bible, which after all, was the one that dropped out of heaven 2000 years ago. If it was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me!

 

[AnAtheist]

Alfie:

All scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There was always a Jewish prophet alive during the time each book of the Bible was written. There weren’t any Jewish prophets alive during the time that the apocrypha was written… therefore the apocrypha is false.

What Jewish prophet was alive, when the NT was written?

 

[AquinasXVI]

Alfie:

Thanks for your reply. But your quotes from Revelation doesn’t satisfy as justification for Sola Scriptura. Again, if you believe that the bible alone is the way Christ intended it, then he would have said it in plain language that can be found in the 4 gospels. Please quote me from there that he mandated any of the disciples to write and compile the definitive book. That’s all I’m asking.

From what I read, Jesus tells us to believe that the new covenant is the eating of his body and drinking of his blood. Which many rejected. He insists on this “tradition” for he said “do this in memory of me.” The Holy Mass is the fulfillment of his request.

in XT.

 

[djrakowski]

Alfie:

Most Protestants that convert to the Catholic religion are more interested in ritual than a relationship with God.

Alfie, I’m a convert-in-process, and I can say with absolute certainty that the ritual aspect of Catholicism wouldn’t have attracted me if the Church didn’t proclaim the fullness of Christian truth. Additionally, the church could be as unstructured and unritualistic as most of the mega-church evangelical congregations, but if it proclaimed the fullness of truth, I would still be there. This assertion of yours is just completely incorrect.

 

[djrakowski]

Alfie:

All scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. There was always a Jewish prophet alive during the time each book of the Bible was written. There weren’t any Jewish prophets alive during the time that the apocrypha was written… therefore the apocrypha is false.

Where is the original copy of the King James Bible that included a divinely inspired table of contents that gives you absolute assurance regarding what belongs in the Bible? If such a table of contents doesn’t exist, then how do you know that you have the complete divine revelation between the covers of your King James Bible?

 

[djrakowski]

Alfie:

Most Protestant denominations have more things in common with each other than differences. Whether Baptist, Penacostal, Methodist,etc… they all believe you must be born again. Protestants usually disagree with each other over minor points that are not key to salvation.

Where in the Bible does it say there are essential and non-essential doctrines? If such a delineation does not exist in the Bible, where is it derived?

 

[Kay_Cee]

allischalmers:

Hello:
This is my first post and first thread. Just so that you know I am not a Catholic nor a Protestant but I am a believer. I have been looking for a church and have talking to protestant friend about it. he belongs to one of these mega churches. I have told he that I was considering a Catholic Church because I think that the inside of the CCatholic Churches looks more like what a church should look look like than what protestant churches do.
Then he tells me this; Have you ever noticed that the Catholic church is always in the news compared to protestant churches. When ever some thing happenes in Roman like the Popes speaks on Easter or Christmas the news always makes a big deal about it. And when the Pope died and they elected a new Pope that you heard about on th news.
He says you know why? I say no! Well He says that the devil owns that world. That God lost the deed to the world when Adam sinned and Satan now has it. that is how satan could offer Jesus all the kingdoms when Jesus fasted for forty days. Then he says that the Catholic church is the church of Satans world and that he uses the news to premote his church.

would you believe that?

Peace
Allischalmers

Let’s see what happens when we apply your friend’s “reasoning” to the Bible.

The Bible is the biggest best-seller in the history *of the world. *It has been translated into more languages than any other book *in the world. *More copies of it have been printed than of any other book in the world.

Therefore, by your friend’s “reasoning,” the Bible must be Satan’s book.

Surely you can see the flaw in this.

BTW, my mother was once in the same position as you: looking for the correct church. She found it by reading the Bible, especially Matthew 16:18. Her reasoning was that Jesus founded a church, and that’s the one she should belong to, not one founded by other men.

 

[Sherlock]

Alfie:

Most Protestant denominations have more things in common with each other than differences. Whether Baptist, Penacostal, Methodist,etc… they all believe you must be born again. Protestants usually disagree with each other over minor points that are not key to salvation.

Jehovah Witness and Mormon religions are not Protestant they are cults.

More in common with each other than differences? My dear Alfie, I was a Protestant for a while, and I know that claim doesn’t hold up whatsoever. Just look at Baptism: this is NOT an unimportant item, but one that is a key to salvation. Lutherans see it that way; Baptists don’t. The requirement that you be “born again” is NOT as uniform as you imply, but is understood very differently. I could go to a Lutheran or Episcopalian church and find a very different (and conflicting) notion of being “born again” then I got from the Baptist non-denom churches I went to.

 

[forthright]

djrakowski:

Where is the original copy of the King James Bible that included a divinely inspired table of contents that gives you absolute assurance regarding what belongs in the Bible? If such a table of contents doesn’t exist, then how do you know that you have the complete divine revelation between the covers of your King James Bible?

There’s an original copy at the Chicago Library that contains the deuterocanonical books.

 

[Subrosa]

Hello allischalmers -

allischalmers:

Hello:
This is my first post and first thread. Just so that you know I am not a Catholic nor a Protestant but I am a believer.

Congratulations for your spiritual seeking and also for coming here to these forums. Your questions can and will be answered here by sincere people.

I have been looking for a church and have talking to protestant friend about it. he belongs to one of these mega churches. I have told he that I was considering a Catholic Church because I think that the inside of the CCatholic Churches looks more like what a church should look look like than what protestant churches do.

If you read Acts 2:46, you will see the origin of the Catholic Church building, the Temple. Remember that the Temple was very ornate (1 Kings 6). Our present Pope wrote about the developement of the Christian church building from the original Jewish places of worship…adoremus.org/0202artliturgy.html

Then he tells me this; Have you ever noticed that the Catholic church is always in the news compared to protestant churches. When ever some thing happenes in Roman like the Popes speaks on Easter or Christmas the news always makes a big deal about it. And when the Pope died and they elected a new Pope that you heard about on th news.
He says you know why? I say no! Well He says that the devil owns that world. That God lost the deed to the world when Adam sinned and Satan now has it. that is how satan could offer Jesus all the kingdoms when Jesus fasted for forty days. Then he says that the Catholic church is the church of Satans world and that he uses the news to premote his church.

We in the Catholic Church know that our ministers are not perfect, indeed they know that they, themselves are sinners. It is the understanding of the Catholic faith that the Church is perfect, but made up of sinners. This is because it is the Holy Spirit that is the guide and teacher of our faith. Because of this, the Catholic Church does not demean or belittle other faiths. We are taught to love them as our neighbors.

Are the Evangelists are without sin?

Have you heard of:

Jim Bakker? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

Jimmy Swaggard?
time-proxy.yaga.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,966933,00.html

Jim Jones?
owlnet.rice.edu/~reli291/Jonestown/Jonestown.html

These evangelists are not people I would want to associate with. The Pope, on the other hand, is someone I am proud to say I am in allegiance with.

I hope and pray your experiences on these forums bring you to God and His proper place in your life.

Subrosa