Not comfortable with planned "debate"

[Lutheranteach]

It was all I hoped it would not be.

 

[emeraldcoast]

It was all I hoped it would not be.

You need to fill us in, Lutheranteach!

Merry Christmas!

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

The priest where I am teaching wants me to debate with the Director of Religious Studies for the school in front of the 8th grade. I am to take the atheist position. She will argue Catholicism. This exercise is meant to make the 8th graders consider their faith in greater depth and to be able to defend it. I’ve expressed over and over how uncomfortable I am with this idea. Why am I so reluctant? Two reasons: 1) I think, unless I purposely tank this thing, that it’s going to make a at least a few of our 8th graders doubt their faith. 2) In meeting with the Director a number of times and having some very long conversation; I truly believe I will win this debate easily. In expressing those concerns to the priest he said: “Perhaps it would be a good thing to have our Director humbled.” I suspect I’m in the middle of some small feud between the two. How can I get out of this?

I would say, why not have rehearsed questions and answers? Or since the goal is meant to make the students consider their faith in greater depth and defend it, why not let them provide the questions? It could help them ask questions that they have always wanted to ask, but have not had the courage to ask.

Please don’t be afraid about “tanking” this thing. There is nothing to tank. Keep the goal in mind by remembering your audience - 8th graders. Ask the questions you think they may have or questions their friends may have asked them.

Also keep in mind - this is not a real debate so there is nothing to win. It’s a mock debate.

My last word of advice would be to pray. Ask the Lord to help you and the Director to focus on the needs of the kids and not to win a mock debate.

 

[Zooey]

I’m not an expert, but perhaps you could say something like “I’m sorry Father, but I cannot in good faith deny Christ, not even for an academic debate.”

There’s always the simple “I’ve changed my mind.”

best wishes,
David

I would simply tell the principal that it is opposed to your sense of Christian charity to beat the religious ed teacher in a religion debate, as that calls into question her ability to teach. Further, you are afraid that if you do it correctly, you might lead others to doubt their faith in Christ.

It is one thing to commit sin, it is another to help someone else.

That is how I would approach it.

If this is meant to be a learning experience, but not challenge the Faith of immature 8th graders, i would strongly suggest a “mock debate.”

You would present the atheist arguments, but in order to ensure the students were not confused or harmed by your adversary’s weakness, allow him or her to hear your arguments ahead of time & prepare a strong apologetic defense!

If it truly the Priest’s wish to provide some humility to the DRS, then agree to debate him or her in front of the faculty only.

Never agree to do anything that would harm the fragile Faith of these young students, our society & media already does that 24/7 everyday!! They need to hear the Truth of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ defended eloquently & with intellectual passion!!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

As a teacher of debate, I can honestly say the truth is often the victim in a competitive debate. There are many things that influence the outcome (especially in the minds of the audience), which include presentation, evidence, and reasoning, I think a more valued debate would be between 8th graders on the same subject (although it would be SO much better if you had a resolution that each side could defend). Then they are on relative equal wits and presentation skill set. Afterwards a “teacher” can use the debate as a springboard for truth, logic, fallacies, and a wide variety applications.

Debates are like sauage making, a lot of nasty things go into it that makes you question whether you like the final product. (although everything is compared to sausage making).

to all the above.

 

[Lutheranteach]

The debate, scored by the 25 8th graders, the priest, and two additional jr. high teachers ended the way I thought it would, only worse. A 25-3 win with two students and one teacher saying she won. 23 students a teacher and the priest said I won. I think the Director made little effort, and was made sure of it later in the day.

I did meet with the Director for maybe all of a minute just beforehand and let her know that none of this was my idea and none of it was personal. Her only response was “I know. This has been coming for some time now. It’s all right. Just do what he’s asking.”

I also talked with her for a good while after school. She is resigning her position and has had plans to do so for a while. Apparently, she has lost faith in what she is teaching due to some personal issues.(she did not want to discuss them…but I have my suspicions) and this was arranged as a “test” for her to see if she still had any desire to teach the faith. She says she plans to not just leave teaching but to formally leave the Catholic Church. I was shocked to say the least and did not push the issue other than to say she’s free to call or talk to me anytime although I am not sure my voice does her much good at the moment.

My concerns with the 8th graders are a mixed bag. I have a couple of natural born skeptics who are probably now a little more skeptical. But I do have one young lady who seemed rather devout who now seems quite shaken —*perhaps that isn’t a bad thing in the long run. Time will tell, but right now her world just got more complicated than ever before and she is a bit upset.

I expressed some concern with the students to Father K. He said: “Sometimes we need to tear poorly built walls down to the foundation in order to soundly build them back up. This is step one.”

The man obviously has his plan and his agenda but does not share much of it with anyone

 

[ralphinal]

The debate, scored by the 25 8th graders, the priest, and two additional jr. high teachers ended the way I thought it would, only worse. A 25-3 win with two students and one teacher saying she won. 23 students a teacher and the priest said I won. I think the Director made little effort, and was made sure of it later in the day.

I did meet with the Director for maybe all of a minute just beforehand and let her know that none of this was my idea and none of it was personal. Her only response was “I know. This has been coming for some time now. It’s all right. Just do what he’s asking.”

I also talked with her for a good while after school. She is resigning her position and has had plans to do so for a while. Apparently, she has lost faith in what she is teaching due to some personal issues.(she did not want to discuss them…but I have my suspicions) and this was arranged as a “test” for her to see if she still had any desire to teach the faith. She says she plans to not just leave teaching but to formally leave the Catholic Church. I was shocked to say the least and did not push the issue other than to say she’s free to call or talk to me anytime although I am not sure my voice does her much good at the moment.

My concerns with the 8th graders are a mixed bag. I have a couple of natural born skeptics who are probably now a little more skeptical. But I do have one young lady who seemed rather devout who now seems quite shaken —*perhaps that isn’t a bad thing in the long run. Time will tell, but right now her world just got more complicated than ever before and she is a bit upset.

I expressed some concern with the students to Father K. He said: “Sometimes we need to tear poorly built walls down to the foundation in order to soundly build them back up. This is step one.”

The man obviously has his plan and his agenda but does not share much of it with anyone

What I would suggest, and it is not much good, is to get the students to look at each point that you raised, then address how to properly answer it.

 

[emeraldcoast]

What I would suggest, and it is not much good, is to get the students to look at each point that you raised, then address how to properly answer it.

Great idea, Ralph!

Merry Christmas!

 

[JRKH]

What I would suggest, and it is not much good, is to get the students to look at each point that you raised, then address how to properly answer it.

I second the notion of this being a good idea.

Peace
James