Not Convinced

[Neil_LA]

God is Love, but we rejected his love. God loves us so much that he came down and died for us. God could have forgiven our sins without dying on the cross, but he did it to show how much he loved us and to lead us by example. He was showing us that if necessary, we must died for our each other or for our faith. He led us by example by allowing himself to be baptized to, though, as John the Baptist said, he did not need to be baptized. This is the embodiment of love, that God would live 33 years on this earth with all the inconvenience of living here especially back then, that he would even die for us. How much more loving could you get?

When did I reject God’s love? I always accept God’s love! How can you not?

Love of what? Devotion to God how? Well, that is exactly what the Catholic Church is all about. A child learns that to get to heaven we must know, love and serve God. How is this different? It is just that the Church teaches how we can best know, love and serve God.

How do you know that the Church teaches how we can best?

How can you look at the world and say that it is good? I sin daily, and I don’t do bad things, yes, I do believe that people need saving because we can’t do it ourselves.

Its bad because we belive that we are separate from God and each other.

Please don’t tell me that the 9-11 terrorists were westerners and please don’t tell me that you support their horrible acts. They were of Eastern decent and they did a horrible thing, they sinned.
People in the North, South, East and West sin and need salvation. That is why Christ came into the world. That is why we ask his mercy, that is why we pray for those who persecute us because we want them to be saved too.
I pray that this helps.

Islam is a WESTERN religion…Arabia is part of the Middle East and Islam has its roots in the very Abrahamic religion that you profess.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

You seem to be hung up on “the scandal of particularity”

God chose ONE people (The Hebrews) for his progressing revelation to most clearly work through

God incarnated ONCE as Jesus of Nazareth–a member of said Hebrews.

Moreover, God did this in history–in a definate time and place, under a verifiable historical cultural complex ("…crucified under Pontius Pilate…".

UNLIKE Krishna and the other avatars of Vedic belief (the circa date of 3500 BC for Krishna’s birth is so unverifiable, especially when the Mahabarata wasnt written down until circa 400 AD)

God may have sent “good dreams” to various peoples around the world at various times which may have prepared them for the actual ONE TIME event of the Incarnation–but human imagination tended to put local “spins” on this preparation.

“Christ is the “Great Myth” become historic fact”–JRR Tolkien

 

[Ahimsa]

Islam is a WESTERN religion…Arabia is part of the Middle East and Islam has its roots in the very Abrahamic religion that you profess.

Yeah, but Abraham came from Mesopotamia, which had deep connections with India and the Indus Valley. Don’t forget that Zoroastrianism (a cousin to the Vedic tradition) influenced Jewish ideas of bodily resurrection, angels, and messiah-ship.

The roots of the West can be found at the roots of the East.

 

[Margarite]

I’m still not convinced. I still believe that the Vedas are more authoritative than the Bible.

Why?

 

[Ahimsa]

UNLIKE Krishna and the other avatars of Vedic belief (the circa date of 3500 BC for Krishna’s birth is so unverifiable, especially when the Mahabarata wasnt written down until circa 400 AD)

Actually, the date of Krishna was probably, at the latest, around 1500 BCE, if not earlier. Krishna’s city of Dwarka might have been recently located, in a now-submerged locality off the coast of western India.

 

[mercygate]

Actually, the date of Krishna was probably, at the latest, around 1500 BCE, if not earlier. Krishna’s city of Dwarka might have been recently located, in a now-submerged locality off the coast of western India.

SIDEBAR QUESTION: How did he become blue?

 

[Ahimsa]

SIDEBAR QUESTION: How did he become blue?

The blueness represents two things. Blue symbolizes the blue sky, which represents the infinity of God, the open and spacious compassion of God for humans, and God’s ability to contain anything and yet remain the same (since the sky can contain all sorts of clouds, bad weather, and pollution, and yet it remains the sky).

Blue also represents Krishna’s skin color. “Krishna” means “dark, or black”, and the (dark) blueness of Krishna also represents Krishna’s dark-skinned quality.

 

[mercygate]

The blueness represents two things. Blue symbolizes the blue sky, which represents the infinity of God, the open and spacious compassion of God for humans, and God’s ability to contain anything and yet remain the same (since the sky can contain all sorts of clouds, bad weather, and pollution, and yet it remains the sky).

Blue also represents Krishna’s skin color. “Krishna” means “dark, or black”, and the (dark) blueness of Krishna also represents Krishna’s dark-skinned quality.

Cool. I have always understood that the graphic-ness of much Hindu iconography has much more to do with symbolism than with particularity. Siva, for example, does not REALLY have 8 arms. those arms reflect the poses of the hands in different gestures that have meaning if you know what they are.

Now, back to topic.

 

[Margarite]

When did I reject God’s love? I always accept God’s love! How can you not?

Oh, I am sorry, I forgot, Catholics believe that we inherit the sin of Adam and Eve, that it is because of that sin that we are so imperfect, that if Adam had not sinned, we would be living in paradise. God did not create us imperfect, but Adam chose for all his children and now we all sin and are surrounded by sin because of his choice.
How does your faith explain the evil in the world? If you believe in God do you believe that God created evil?

How do you know that the Church teaches how we can best?

Christ is God, God is Truth,Truth started a Church of truth where truth could be learned, the Catholic Church can be directly traced to Christ and the apostles, so if you believe that Christ started a Church, you should logically believe that he started the Catholic Church and that it teaches the Truth.

Its bad because we belive that we are separate from God and each other.

Are you saying that if I simply believe that I am not separated from God by sin, that it is so? I believe that sin kills the soul, and when we are spiritually dead, God is still with us, but we are refusing to accept him. Mortal sin is deadly to the soul, but venial sin simply weakens our soul so that it is easier to sin again and then easier to commit a mortal sin. We must strengthen ourselves against temptation so that we can become pleasing to God. It is like a child who is naughty, the parents will forgive and love the child no matter what they do, but the parents like and expect the child to repent and ask for forgiveness and the child should also try to make it up.

Islam is a WESTERN religion…Arabia is part of the Middle East and Islam has its roots in the very Abrahamic religion that you profess.

Oh, most westerners even consider Judaism an eastern religion. Ok, well, is Budism the only “Eastern” religion? Are there any others? How do you think of the Dali Lama?

I won’t be able to respond until tomorrow, so have a great day.

 

[Neil_LA]

Krishna is beautiful an posseses all opulences.
I don’t see anything beautiful about Jesus.

I’m not denying Jesus is God, but I’m not denying Krishna is God either.

 

[living_water]

Krishna is beautiful an posseses all opulences.
I don’t see anything beautiful about Jesus.

I’m not denying Jesus is God, but I’m not denying Krishna is God either.

And that is because… he was crucified? Why was he crucified, but the beautiful Krishna who teaches the path to God is wisdom not crucified?

 

[Ahimsa]

Krishna is beautiful an posseses all opulences.
I don’t see anything beautiful about Jesus.

I’m not denying Jesus is God, but I’m not denying Krishna is God either.

You don’t see anything beautiful about an Avatar?

 

[mercygate]

You don’t see anything beautiful about an Avatar?

We have a somewhat different theology/experience of that. We call 'em “Saints.”

 

[inJESUS]

Krishna is beautiful an posseses all opulences.
I don’t see anything beautiful about Jesus.

I’m not denying Jesus is God, but I’m not denying Krishna is God either.

you believe they are the same God or 2 differents gods? if you believe they are 1 God, did they teach the same? if not, do you believe in many gods?

 

[Neil_LA]

you believe they are the same God or 2 differents gods? if you believe they are 1 God, did they teach the same? if not, do you believe in many gods?

If they are the same ONE GOD, why would they need to teach the exact same thing?

Maybe God comes to different people in different times and teaches different things.

But no…I believe their message was essentially the same.

“Be devoted to God, Love your neighbour and you will attain me.”

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

It seems that your faith isn’t very firm.

My faith is firm. But i have learned that many things that are false can be surrounded with just enough truth that a person can be lead to false teaching with out realizing it. the proof of that can be seen in the many cults that have formed around the world.

As the prayer the “Our Father” says lead us not into temptation.
Without the Guidance of the Church we have nothing to keep us from wondering astray.

 

[inJESUS]

If they are the same ONE GOD, why would they need to teach the exact same thing?

Maybe God comes to different people in different times and teaches different things.

But no…I believe their message was essentially the same.

“Be devoted to God, Love your neighbour and you will attain me.”

if i tell you Be devoted to God, Love your neighbour and you will attain me, does it mean God told me to tell you so or could it be me telling you what i heard from others? you will understand if i am speaking the word of God if i do not contradict what others said about God because both cannot be correct.

Why would God tell a buddhist : attein enlightnment through your own efforts , yet the same God tells a Christian “you are nothing without me”? do you think this is the same God who gives opposite teachings : self-reliance v/s reliance only on God?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

That seems to be taking things with blind faith…just because someone told you so. Who is your authority? Why do you place them in that position?

Why would God appear only to one nation on Earth - only at one time?

That seems to limit that which is unlimited…

Not blind faith,but on faith. Christ Holy Catholic and Apostolic church.
Because Jesus Christ gave the Church that position and Authority.

God Choose the people and the way to reveal himself. who am I to question the vehicle that God has chosen.

 

[thecoach]

We don’t, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches. We believe that that are parts of the truth in many places. They aren’t necessarily false, just incomplete. We believe that the fullness of Truth is in The Catholic Church.

According to Pope Benedict, your statement is not accurate.

 

[mercygate]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatius forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
We don’t, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches. We believe that that are parts of the truth in many places. They aren’t necessarily false, just incomplete. We believe that the fullness of Truth is in The Catholic Church.

According to Pope Benedict, your statement is not accurate.

Um. Ignatius is correct. The Church acknowledges truth wherever it is found, even if only in part. Check the Catechism.