Not Convinced

[Neil_LA]

Hi

I have spent a good deal of my life investigating different religions and spiritual paths.

My experience has been that people who profess any of the various sects within Christianity are usually saying that they alone are the “truth” and everybody else is in error.

I’ve read the Bible a couple of times. I have no problem with Jesus or the fact that he died on the cross and rose from the dead. If he is God why would that be difficult for Him?

I’m just not convinced that the Christian faith is the “truth” to the exculsion of other religions.

I’ve read the Bhagavad Gita and other various Vedic scriptures and am convinced that they also contain “truth” and in many cases are clearer and more convincing than the Bible.

Why do people believe that the Bible, the Church and the Magestirium have the sole and exculsive possesion of “truth” and no other religions do?

Thank you

 

[Ignatius]

Hi

I have spent a good deal of my life investigating different religions and spiritual paths.

My experience has been that people who profess any of the various sects within Christianity are usually saying that they alone are the “truth” and everybody else is in error.

I’ve read the Bible a couple of times. I have no problem with Jesus or the fact that he died on the cross and rose from the dead. If he is God why would that be difficult for Him?

I’m just not convinced that the Christian faith is the “truth” to the exculsion of other religions.

I’ve read the Bhagavad Gita and other various Vedic scriptures and am convinced that they also contain “truth” and in many cases are clearer and more convincing than the Bible.

Why do people believe that the Bible, the Church and the Magestirium have the sole and exculsive possesion of “truth” and no other religions do?

Thank you

We don’t, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches. We believe that that are parts of the truth in many places. They aren’t necessarily false, just incomplete. We believe that the fullness of Truth is in The Catholic Church.

 

[AgnosTheist]

We believe that that are parts of the truth in many places.

half truths, right?

 

[Neil_LA]

“They aren’t necessarily false, just incomplete. We believe that the fullness of Truth is in The Catholic Church.”

How do you know that is the case?

 

[MH84]

How do you know that is the case?

That is part of the faith of being Catholic.

 

[Neil_LA]

That is part of the faith of being Catholic.

Um…that seems to be avoiding the question. How do you KNOW?

I believe that Hindu worship and faith is more meaningful and more of a direct way of talking with God than Catholic worship.

How can you convince me otherwise? Come on…If you REALLY know that the Catholic Chuch is the TRUTH you must have a reason. What is the reason that the Catholic Church is the Absolute Truth?

 

[living_water]

There is one word that separates Christianity from all other spiritual paths or religion- grace.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that the Church believes it possesses all truth to the exclusion of any truth in any other religion. In fact, the catechism states that other religions do possess some truth, but not the fullnesses of truth. The Church places itself in a superior position to other religions because it claims the only way for man to be reconciled with God. Understanding and reflecting on truth is one thing, but how to live in truth is another.

The first tenets of truth Christianity begins with is that there is one God omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, and that God alone is righteous, that He alone is holy. The second tenet is that the first man chose to sin, which separated that man from God, and therefore all men who are descended from him inherited the inability to see God while incarnated in human flesh. The third tenet is that God responded to man’s state of sin by giving the Law. The law is God’s standard, and allows man to see his own sinfulness when compared to God’s holiness revealed in the law.

The other major monotheistic religions accept the premise of one holy God, but teach that we are reconciled through the keeping of law. The Jewish tradition was to atone for sin through animal sacrifice. So, these traditions accept the requirement for morality and the consequences of sin, but teach that atonement is man-initiated.

Hinduism teaches the concept of karma, which philosophically is quite similar to the teaching that man is burdened with the consequences of their sins. The Hindu teaching is that we must suffer temporal consequences through re-birth and life experiences for our sins, and that is how we atone.

I am not aware of any major religion that does have at its core a teaching that morality and righteousness are required for communion with God. The differences between these other religions and Christianity is that only Christianity teaches that God Himself bridged the separation between God and man (which we experience as being here on earth and not being able to see God, He is invisible, we can’t prove his existence). God bridged this separation by becoming visible. He appeared in a form that we can see physically. He transcended everything in the physical world that we are bound to- the laws of physics, the certainty of death. He did this, and then He suffered the consequences of our sin by immersing Himself in the suffering that sin creates. This is the perfect atonement in Christianity that frees us from the heavy burden of the law (and karma). Other religions acknowledge the heavy burden, but not that God has lifted it for us if we can see with our spiritual eyes that He has come to earth to lift the burden.

In doing so, Christianity teaches we can become reconciled through God by seeing Him in His human form. We are separated from God, but still long for Him, and then we see Him in our own form, and we either respond to seeing God, (we respond to the Light) and accept His atonement, or follow a man-made path to atonement.

Some spiritual paths don’t emphasis man’s separation from God as much as the ability of man to become like God. This is essentially the same path as choosing to atone for your own sin through righteousness and karma. Christianity is the only path that says, man should not attempt to follow a path to become like God through His own will, but should accept God’s mercy, and become like God through grace.

 

[Rocky]

Either Christ is God or He isn’t. Since I believe the testimony that Jesus did die and did rise from the dead, and is now living, how can I reasonably believe that any other religion has the fullness of truth? And while I admire people of other religions who lead good lives, why would I not want to share the whole truth?

 

[Della]

“They aren’t necessarily false, just incomplete. We believe that the fullness of Truth is in The Catholic Church.”

How do you know that is the case?

Because of the Resurrection of Christ. As you pointed out, if Christ is God then this would not be hard for him. We believe Christ is God because of the Resurrection. And if Christ is God the Church he established and to which he gave the charisms of both infallibility and indestructibility would therefore have the right to claim to teach the fullness of the truth as Christ/God gave it to us. Does that help?

 

[tomarin]

I’m just not convinced that the Christian faith is the “truth” to the exculsion of other religions.

keep in mind also that most of the great world religions hold core beliefs that are contradictory to each other, making a position of religious relativism (if that is indeed what you are proposing or sympathetic to) problematic. to quote from page 14 of Michael Green’s book “But Don’t All Religions Lead to God?” (published by Baker Books in 2002):

*This sort of syncretism (blending the different religions together to create a composite picture of god) is very attractive, but it will not do. Why not?

First, because if you ask the actual worshipers within different faiths whether all religions are the same, you will get an emphatic denial. They know very well that Christians are different from Muslims and Hindus, and often they are so persuaded of the rightness of their own religion that they slaughter members of other religions or burn their mosques or churches … It is the academics sitting in their studies who write books saying that all religions are the same: the practitioners on the ground think differently.

Moreover, even the most cursory examination of the world religions will show that there is no way they can all be explained as the same. For one thing, they hold diametrically opposed views of what God is like. The divine in Hinduism is impersonal, though approached through countless deities and statues. The Muslim Allah is personal, with no subordinate deities and an absolute prohibition of idols or an other way of representing God. Buddhism is a religion without God, and without even a final existence. Christianity teaches that God both forgives a person and also offers supernatural aid. In Buddhism and Hinduism there is no forgiveness, only ruthless karma, and no supernatural aid.

And what, according to the different religions, is the goal of our lives? Where are we heading after this life on earth? The goal of all existence in Buddhism is nirvana, extinction or “the complete cessation of both desire and personality” - attained by the Buddha after no less than 547 births. Muslims look forward to a sensual paradise with wine, women and song. The goal of all existence in Christianity is to know God and enjoy Him forever in the company of His redeemed people. So, what the religions teach differs enormously.*

 

[MH84]

Um…that seems to be avoiding the question. How do you KNOW?

I believe that Hindu worship and faith is more meaningful and more of a direct way of talking with God than Catholic worship.

How can you convince me otherwise? Come on…If you REALLY know that the Catholic Chuch is the TRUTH you must have a reason. What is the reason that the Catholic Church is the Absolute Truth?

I was just telling you that as a Catholic, believing that it teaches the truth is part of the Church’s teaching.

In essence, Catholics believe what Jesus said in John 14:6:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

One could say then, that truth is a Person, not a philosophy. The problem I guess you are facing is determining which church is the voice of Christ.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Um…that seems to be avoiding the question. How do you KNOW?
…How can you convince me otherwise? Come on…If you REALLY know that the Catholic Chuch is the TRUTH you must have a reason. What is the reason that the Catholic Church is the Absolute Truth?

“Aut deus aut homo malus” (“Either God or a bad man”)

Who do YOU make Jesus of Nazareth to be???

 

[Neil_LA]

There is one word that separates Christianity from all other spiritual paths or religion- grace.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that the Church believes it possesses all truth to the exclusion of any truth in any other religion. In fact, the catechism states that other religions do possess some truth, but not the fullnesses of truth. The Church places itself in a superior position to other religions because it claims the only way for man to be reconciled with God. Understanding and reflecting on truth is one thing, but how to live in truth is another.

The first tenets of truth Christianity begins with is that there is one God omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, and that God alone is righteous, that He alone is holy. The second tenet is that the first man chose to sin, which separated that man from God, and therefore all men who are descended from him inherited the inability to see God while incarnated in human flesh. The third tenet is that God responded to man’s state of sin by giving the Law. The law is God’s standard, and allows man to see his own sinfulness when compared to God’s holiness revealed in the law.

The other major monotheistic religions accept the premise of one holy God, but teach that we are reconciled through the keeping of law. The Jewish tradition was to atone for sin through animal sacrifice. So, these traditions accept the requirement for morality and the consequences of sin, but teach that atonement is man-initiated.

Hinduism teaches the concept of karma, which philosophically is quite similar to the teaching that man is burdened with the consequences of their sins. The Hindu teaching is that we must suffer temporal consequences through re-birth and life experiences for our sins, and that is how we atone.

I am not aware of any major religion that does have at its core a teaching that morality and righteousness are required for communion with God. The differences between these other religions and Christianity is that only Christianity teaches that God Himself bridged the separation between God and man (which we experience as being here on earth and not being able to see God, He is invisible, we can’t prove his existence). God bridged this separation by becoming visible. He appeared in a form that we can see physically. He transcended everything in the physical world that we are bound to- the laws of physics, the certainty of death. He did this, and then He suffered the consequences of our sin by immersing Himself in the suffering that sin creates. This is the perfect atonement in Christianity that frees us from the heavy burden of the law (and karma). Other religions acknowledge the heavy burden, but not that God has lifted it for us if we can see with our spiritual eyes that He has come to earth to lift the burden.

In doing so, Christianity teaches we can become reconciled through God by seeing Him in His human form. We are separated from God, but still long for Him, and then we see Him in our own form, and we either respond to seeing God, (we respond to the Light) and accept His atonement, or follow a man-made path to atonement.

Some spiritual paths don’t emphasis man’s separation from God as much as the ability of man to become like God. This is essentially the same path as choosing to atone for your own sin through righteousness and karma. Christianity is the only path that says, man should not attempt to follow a path to become like God through His own will, but should accept God’s mercy, and become like God through grace.

Jesus wasn’t the only time that God came to Earth. The Vedic tradition says that God has incarnated Himself many times.

How do we know that Jesus is the only incarnation and the other incarnations are untrue?

How do we know that we are separated from God. Maybe that’s just a false perception. Saints and mystics of ALL religions say that we can talk to God face to face.

Just because the Bible teaches that humans have been separated from God…How do we KNOW that is true?

 

[MH84]

Because of the Resurrection of Christ. As you pointed out, if Christ is God then this would not be hard for him. We believe Christ is God because of the Resurrection. And if Christ is God the Church he established and to which he gave the charisms of both infallibility and indestructibility would therefore have the right to claim to teach the fullness of the truth as Christ/God gave it to us. Does that help?

I don’t necessarily agree with this. Technically, Christ did not have to be God to be raised from the dead.

When Peter said that “But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him” (Acts 2:24), that doesnt prove that Peter was claiming that Jesus was God.

 

[AgnosTheist]

How do you know that is the case?

because catholic teachings have things in common with other religons. for example

belief in the trinity = same with protestants.

belief in one god = same with islam.

belief in the old testament = same with judaism

belief in the bible = same with mormons

using grave images = same with hindus.

 

[Margarite]

The first thing seems to be believing that Christ is God. If you believe that, then it is only logical to be Catholic. If you must first be convinced of Christ’s divinity, well, please tell us so we know where to focus our arguments.

 

[Neil_LA]

I’m not debating that Jesus Christ is God incarnated on earth.

My question is: Why believe that Jesus is the ONLY incarnation of God when the evidence points to others?

 

[MH84]

The first thing seems to be believing that Christ is God. If you believe that, then it is only logical to be Catholic. If you must first be convinced of Christ’s divinity, well, please tell us so we know where to focus our arguments.

Great advice, Margarite.

Actually, first one must believe that what is written in the bible is the inerrant truth. Without this, how does one prove that Christ is God?

 

[living_water]

Jesus wasn’t the only time that God came to Earth. The Vedic tradition says that God has incarnated Himself many times.

How do we know that Jesus is the only incarnation and the other incarnations are untrue?

Did those incarnations atone for sin, or teach that man must suffer the consequences of his sin through karma?

Because He rose from the dead, and transformed His disciples from cursing, denying cowards into martyrs when they encountered His fully resurrected Person.

Because He said, “my sheep hear my voice”. He is Light, and all Christians are those who have responded, Yes, my spirit says, this is indeed the Light. That is true faith, and nobody will ever be able to provide a sufficient reasonable explanation for you. God has revealed primarily to our souls, and cannot be reached through the human intellect alone.

Just because the Bible teaches that humans have been separated from God…How do we KNOW that is true?

You can prove to yourself that you are separated by God simply by reflecting on the fact that you are questioning Who He Is. If you KNEW God, you would not question if you were separated from Him. We cannot see God, therefore we are separated from Him. We cannot prove his existence. Therefore, we are separated from Him.

 

[tomarin]

Just because the Bible teaches that humans have been separated from God…How do we KNOW that is true?

actually, this is a pretty easy question to address. how do we know that the world is a messed up place? simply by opening up any newspaper and reading, or by watching the parade of horrors and misery on the nightly television news. how else to explain the 9/11 attacks if not that it is evidence that evil exists in the world in a way that is very real and active.