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Nicea325
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And one at times cannot blame them due to the fact they were raised with the belief,the Bible alone is the final authority.In other words, their traditions have taught them differently.
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MartinJordan
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Apryl
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I’ve heard of these passages before, but I didn’t get Chapter and Verse
Isn’t it interesting how many of the scriptures you point to that ‘mean’ we aren’t to add to or remove from the Bible come from the Old Testament? So, if we take that literally… there could be no New Testament.
Not only that, taking scripture (in particular VERSES) as if they are isolated leads to ruin. One must consider the Chapter that is being read… the verses before and after what is quoted.
I’m just sayin’ …
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pablope
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The best thing is for you to get a copy and you can see for yourself. It is structured with numbered paragraphs, somewhat like a Bible, to make for easy referencing. Maybe, I will liken it to a study bible…with a commentary, with footnotes and biblical references.
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pablope
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Let me put it this way, the full understanding and full benefit is not clearly spelled out in the Bible. Salvation is a process…but how is that process? Confession…it is biblical…but the graces obtained are not understood, when practiced, it leads in the growth of one’s grace…it leads from a state of the primary grace to a unitive state of grace with Christ.
Is this what you are looking for? Is what you are looking, somewhat of a direct line to heaven?
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Richard_Kastner
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Ok, let’s stick with this one. You say “So I believe the bible and Sacred Tradition is needed.” Now I take this to mean that there are elements in the bible that are not in sacred tradition and there are elements in sacred tradition that are not found in the bible that we also need. Now I believe that all the information that we need is contained in the bible. I also believe in confession and communion. My belief, however is much different than the CC’s, but these doctrines can both be found in the bible. So if you believe that tradition and the bible are needed there must be something that you believe is found exclusively in your tradition that is not found in the bible that is essential to our salvation. What would that be?
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Richard_Kastner
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Acts2
10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Rom.1
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom.10
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Eph.1
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
2Tim.3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Notice 2Tim3:15 The scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation THROUGH FAITH which is in Christ Jesus. Doesn’t say anything about tradition.
There are many more that tell of the salvation found in Christ. Is this what you were looking for?
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Richard_Kastner
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You may not understand it pablope, but to me it is quite clear. See my last post.
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benidict
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is it also not written, “hold fast to the traditions, you have received from us. be it from word, or example.” this is just a snipit. i dont have my bible with me. im at work. however, what if i was in an area, where bibles were illegal? what if i could not own one? how could i then receive salvation if there is no bible? doesnt the BIBLE say also, that there is enough evidence in nature to know? not to mention for close to 300 years, the Church had NO new testament. how did thy ascertain the truth??? two words. APOSTOLIC TRADITON. and beyond that, ORAL TEACHING. most of the people who converted to Christianity were poor, and couldnt have afforded much less read a new testament even if it were in existence. they had to trust that their teachers were teaching them correctly, from the TRADITIONS AND TEACHINGS they had received. i really dont understand, how this is hard to understand. they didnt have barnes and noble, or zondervan christian bookstores back then. 
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regression
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An example would be the definition of the Trinity. That is not explicitly spelled out in the bible.
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Richard_Kastner
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Are you seriously saying that the doctrine of the trinity is not taught in the bible?
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regression
Guest
Where in the bible is the Trinity defined and spelled out?
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regression
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I guess I should be more clear… you can find the doctrine of the Trinity in the bible, but it is not clearly spelled out. The Church was able to define it.
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benidict
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not only is the doctrine of the Trinity not found in the bible, the word Trinity is not found. even after the Church fathers formulated this doctrine, it took several centuries to come to any concrete conclusions. Peace
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Richard_Kastner
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Ok, here we have two Catholics that are supposedly reflecting the infallible teachings of the CC and they cannot agree on whether or not this doctrine is taught in the bible. I would ask you both, do you think the doctrine of the Trinity, which is taught in the bible BTW, is necessary for our salvation. I mean could a person come to an acceptance of Jesus as Lord of their lives, be baptised, and be assured of eternal life if they remain faithful to Him and not be aware of the doctrine of the Trinity?not only is the doctrine of the Trinity not found in the bible, the word Trinity is not found. even after the Church fathers formulated this doctrine, it took several centuries to come to any concrete conclusions. Peace
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regression
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Well, I never claimed that I am infallible
. As far as if the if the doctrine of the Trinity is in the bible, I have not seen in the bible were it states the Trinity is made up of three Persons in one God. So you could say the Trinity is not in the bible.The bible does have references like when Jesus says “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father” which begin to elude to the Trinity (here talking about God and Jesus).
Where did you find the doctrine of the Trinity in the bible, if I may ask?
I don’t view salvation is a checklist of things I have to believe in, so I don’t know how to answer your last question. I believe we are saved through the grace of God and the Church is a witness to that. Through the Church, we are provided a means to help us, ie confession, the Eucharist, etc…
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benidict
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[QchUOTE=Richard Kastner;7363147]Ok, here we have two Catholics that are supposedly reflecting the infallible teachings of the CC and they cannot agree on whether or not this doctrine is taught in the bible. I would ask you both, do you think the doctrine of the Trinity, which is taught in the bible BTW, is necessary for our salvation. I mean could a person come to an acceptance of Jesus as Lord of their lives, be baptised, and be assured of eternal life if they remain faithful to Him and not be aware of the doctrine of the Trinity?then let me clarify. the bible alludes to the Triune God. but as my brother pointed out. it is not spelled out clearly. even among your own founders richard, there was a disagreement. E.G. white believed in the Trinity, where as, her husband did not. it is unclear enough from scripture, that going by scripture alone, a person CAN come to the conclusion that the Trinity is a false doctrine. i.e. the Jehovahs Witnesses, or that Jesus and the Father are two distinct personages. i.e. the Mormons. without tradition we would probably still not have a clear teaching of the Trinity. i really dont disagree with my brothers assesment. nor did i claim to teaching the infallible teachings of Rome into the mix. if im going to do so, i will quote from the Catechism. nice try though. Peace
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Roy5
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Just to represent another viewpoint that, I believe, is increasingly popular among both Catholics and Protestants in our time.
Code:
Catholic? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Pentecostal? I'm quite sure that God has little interest in our labels, and pays little attention to our different doctrines.
God examines the hearts. As I recall, when he comes - according to the gospel - he will divide the sheep from the goats (Matt. 25). One group will go to heaven, but not the other. Why? Nothing to do with dogma or church affiliation. Hungry, and you fed me, Naked and you clothed me. Sick and you visited me. Etc. "Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of the least of these ye have done it unto me."
The Gospel of our Lord! All the rest is secondary.
My suggestion is to 'think and let think' and live in mutual respect for the faith as truly practiced by one another. We are saved by grace and not by doctrine.
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benidict
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as i said no disagreement among regression and myself. however if i might add. if it were so clearly spelled out in the Bible, then how come the Jews did not believe it? how come they were so angered when Christ said before abraham was, I AM. claiming equality with God the Father. not to mention the first Christians did not even have a new testament. and had to rely on the o.t. even there, we can find allusions. but… if you read a Jewish commentary on these verses. and use a Jewish translation of the Tanakh you will see, that they dont see a Trinitarian concept at all, for example genises, where it is written, let us make man in our own image. the Jews dont see this as an allusion to a Triune Godhead. the Kabbalist? somewhat different view. which will follow later. the first Christians certainly were taught about the Trinity from the apostles. but where did the apostles get this doctrine. certainly not fromt he bible. peace
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benidict
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but my friend. you are teaching doctrine here. i think this line of thought would be from more of a unitarian universalist mindset. you cannot get away from doctrine. yes, what you are saying is going to play a huge part in our final destiny. but we are also taught by the apostles to abide in their teaching. what is teaching, but Doctrine? there is correct doctrine that is taught in the scriptures. and there is false. that is taught by the world. should i be able to have more than one wife? should i be able to live any which way i please? believe anything i choose, about Christ. how about the divinity of Christ? is that secondary. how about the succession of apostolic authority? secondary? very important questions my friend. the apostles taught doctrine, and Christ was not afraid to teach doctrine. should we be afraid to speak truth? peace
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