Not Convinced.....

[benidict]

Well I believe I did answer your question. Ex.20:13Thou shalt not kill. tells us that we must not kill.
Luke1:41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
tells us that the entity whithin Elisabeth is a “babe” or a human being. So the bible alone tells us that we must not kill and I think that I can assume that it is talking about humans and it also tells us that the unborn are “babes” or human and therefore cannot be killed under pain of sin. 1Jn.3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

To me this is clear enough that abortion is not allowed and this can be gleaned exclusively from the bible. So, is that it. Is that all that you think is only taught in your tradition that you think is essential to our salvation?

no Richard. that is not an answer to my question. i asked a simple yes or no question. any Jewish scholar will tell you, that this verse has nothing to do with abortion. the bible is not clear at all on the issue. so lets try this again. and this is my last try. i will try to rephrase so you can understand the question. the bible does not address abortion, euthanasia, or assisted suicide. does a person who defends or practices these acts have a place in the world to come? again. its a simple YES or NO question Richard. these are three such practices condemned by tradition, that are not in the bible, that directly affect our salvation. all im looking for Richard is a yes, that people who practice or defend abortion, assisted suicide, or euthanasia, have a place in the world to come. or no. that you agree with Catholic tradition, which condemns such acts, and that if not repented of, can lead to a persons ultimate rejection by God? thanx in advance

 

[Mark01]

In the OP the question was asked Is the Bible alone sufficient? simieonhuff does not ask sufficient for what purpose. He states his belief in “sola scriptura” then answers the question on why there are so many differing denominations, by stating that it is a matter of misinterpretation. In doing so, invalidating the doctrine of “sola scriptura”.

If it where a true doctrine all would interpret the Bible in the same way through the guidance of the Holy Spirit without error, so therefore no differing denominations.

His second statement is, no where in the Bible does it say to venerate Mary but just a few words later he goes on to say that in the Bible she was honored.(but not worshiped). Veneration is the act of honoring Mary just as the Bible instructs us to do. Catholics do not worship Mary, we worship God and God alone, often times it is a lack of knowledge that causes misconceptions concerning theology.

There is a very high regard of Mary in Catholic doctrine, due to the fact that she is the mother of Jesus Christ our Savior and we venerate/ honor her as such. God chose Mary to bring forth the Incarnate Word, the Word made flesh, In honoring her we worship God and give Glory to God. In the Ten Commandments, God tells us to honor our mothers. When we honor Mary, mother of Jesus, mother of God; could anyone imagine that this does not please God? Does this not bring us closer to God?

Mary’s sinlessness is a defined Dogma of the Catholic Church and is not explicitly stated in the Bible. To give a full apology of this would take an enormous amount of time and space. To give a very brief synopsis of this I would just like to say, that there is enough biblical evidence for that defined Dogma and it is a part of Catholic theology.

A good place to start studying this is in the fact that God is all Holy and would never allow His Son to be touched by the effects of sin. For God placed enmity between the woman and the serpent. See Genesis 3:15. Mary was sinless because to be otherwise she would have to have cooperated with Satan, God did not allow this to happen.

Jesus said that the way to salvation is narrow and the number would be few, not all that say Lord, Lord will be saved. He left here on earth a guide to help us along the path and that guide is His Church.

The four biblical marks that describe His Church are:

1. His Church - Holy
   Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it: That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life: That he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
   (Ephesians 5:24-27)

Let us be glad and rejoice and give glory to him. For the marriage of the Lamb is come: and his wife hath prepared herself. And it is granted to her that she should clothe herself with fine linen, glittering and white. For the fine linen are the justifications of saints.
(Revelation 19:7-8)

1. Catholic (Universal)
   Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
   (Matthew 28:19-20)

And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book and to open the seals thereof: because thou wast slain and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation
(Revelation 5:9)

1. One (Unity)
   So we, being many, are one body in Christ; and every one members one of another:
   (Romans 12:5)

For we, being many, are one bread, one body: all that partake of one bread.
(1 Corinthians 10:17)

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink.
(1 Corinthians 12:13)

Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
(Ephesians 4:3-6)

1. Apostolic
   Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners: but you are fellow citizens with the saints and the domestics of God, Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: In whom all the building, being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.
   (Ephesians 2:19-22)

The Catholic Church historically meets these four Biblical traits.

Scripture alone is not sufficient in all matters of faith and morals, we must also rely on The Church.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

no Richard. that is not an answer to my question. i asked a simple yes or no question. any Jewish scholar will tell you, that this verse has nothing to do with abortion. the bible is not clear at all on the issue. so lets try this again. and this is my last try. i will try to rephrase so you can understand the question. the bible does not address abortion, euthanasia, or assisted suicide. does a person who defends or practices these acts have a place in the world to come? again. its a simple YES or NO question Richard. these are three such practices condemned by tradition, that are not in the bible, that directly affect our salvation. all im looking for Richard is a yes, that people who practice or defend abortion, assisted suicide, or euthanasia, have a place in the world to come. or no. that you agree with Catholic tradition, which condemns such acts, and that if not repented of, can lead to a persons ultimate rejection by God? thanx in advance

I appreciate you trying to dumb your question down to match my limited capacity to understand it. But that pales in comparison to my appreciation that this is your last attempt to convey it.

Anyhow I did answer your question. The bible does condemn killing in Ex.20:13 and Luke 1:41tells us that the entity in the womb is a human (babe). I couldn’t give a hoot less what Jewish scholars think. Abortion is condemned in the bible. So, any other doctries that you think are exclusively in your tradition that you think are essential for our salvation?

 

[zach_dunn]

All scripture is the bible old and new testaments. I Know it is scripture through faith. I believe it is. Heb.11: 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. But this is off topic.

But how do you know how many books are in each testament, and which books they actually have in them? It’s not off topic, it has a direct affect on whether or not sola scriptura is true which is a topic that you’ve been discussing with many people.

 

[Nicea325]

All scripture is the bible old and new testaments. I Know it is scripture through faith. I believe it is. Heb.11: 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. But this is off topic.

Which begs the question:Where does Paul even mention the NT as being inspired in 2 Tim 3:16? Where does Paul even hint: All scripture includes the 27 NT books/letters.

Paul determined the NT was also inspired?

Just curious why you cannot provide historical evidence supporting such a claim?

But according to you I am playing games?

 

[Nicea325]

But how do you know how many books are in each testament, and which books they actually have in them? It’s not off topic, it has a direct affect on whether or not sola scriptura is true which is a topic that you’ve been discussing with many people.

Oh trust me,he will come up with all kinds of excuses not to answer. He has yet to answer my question(s).

Richard where does Paul even mention the NT as being inspired in 2 Tim 3:16? Where does Paul say: All scripture includes the 27 NT books/letters? Where do you get such an idea?

Paul determined the NT was inspired? Is that what you believe?

He has yet to provide a single shred of historical evidence proving the NT was complete before Paul died and let alone 27 NT even being canonized or considered inspired.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

In the OP the question was asked Is the Bible alone sufficient? simieonhuff does not ask sufficient for what purpose. He states his belief in “sola scriptura” then answers the question on why there are so many differing denominations, by stating that it is a matter of misinterpretation. In doing so, invalidating the doctrine of “sola scriptura”.

If it where a true doctrine all would interpret the Bible in the same way through the guidance of the Holy Spirit without error, so therefore no differing denominations.

Well, first of all sola scriptura is not a doctrine and it is not taught as such in the bible. It is however a principle, much like the Trinity, that atho not explicitely stated as SS, can be gleaned from it’s pages. Also you say "He states his belief in “sola scriptura” then answers the question on why there are so many differing denominations, by stating that it is a matter of misinterpretation. In doing so, invalidating the doctrine of “sola scriptura”.

This simply is not so. Because people misinterpret the truth does not mean that it is not the truth.

His second statement is, no where in the Bible does it say to venerate Mary but just a few words later he goes on to say that in the Bible she was honored.(but not worshiped). Veneration is the act of honoring Mary just as the Bible instructs us to do. Catholics do not worship Mary, we worship God and God alone, often times it is a lack of knowledge that causes misconceptions concerning theology.

You will have to show me the chapter and verse that instructs us to honor Mary. The only place I can find that that is even alluded to is Luke 1:48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Where Mary herself makes a simple statement that all generations would call her blessed and that of coarse is true, but it is not an instruction.

There is a very high regard of Mary in Catholic doctrine, due to the fact that she is the mother of Jesus Christ our Savior and we venerate/ honor her as such. God chose Mary to bring forth the Incarnate Word, the Word made flesh, In honoring her we worship God and give Glory to God. In the Ten Commandments, God tells us to honor our mothers. When we honor Mary, mother of Jesus, mother of God; could anyone imagine that this does not please God? Does this not bring us closer to God?

You say here "God chose Mary to bring forth the Incarnate Word, the Word made flesh, In honoring her we worship God and give Glory to God. How in the world do you figure this? How by honoring Mary, honor meaning a certain esteeming of her which is not worship as you say, how can that honor of her suddenly be translated into full blown worship of God?

Mary’s sinlessness is a defined Dogma of the Catholic Church and is not explicitly stated in the Bible. To give a full apology of this would take an enormous amount of time and space. To give a very brief synopsis of this I would just like to say, that there is enough biblical evidence for that defined Dogma and it is a part of Catholic theology.

Cite some of that biblical evidence Mark.

A good place to start studying this is in the fact that God is all Holy and would never allow His Son to be touched by the effects of sin.

Rom.8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Whose flesh was Jesus in the likeness of Mark?

Heb.4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

If the Holy Spirit would not allow Jesus to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” or sin. His sacrifice on the cross would be meaningless.

For God placed enmity between the woman and the serpent. See Genesis 3:15. Mary was sinless because to be otherwise she would have to have cooperated with Satan, God did not allow this to happen. the path and that guide is His Church.

Gen.3:15 is talking about God’s church. She did cooperate with Satan. Rom.3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

To say “God did not allow this to happen” would be to deny her of her free will and God would not do that.

Scripture alone is not sufficient in all matters of faith and morals, we must also rely on The Church.

What matters of faith and morals that we must have for our salvation are not contained in the bible, but are contained in the churches tradition?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

What matters of faith and morals that we must have for our salvation are not contained in the bible, but are contained in the churches tradition?

Here is an easy one (or two depending on how you look at it): The Canon and Infallibility of Scriptures. By definition, it would be unreasonable to reason this through Scriptures. You cannot use “ersatz” to define the essence of “ersatz”. Same with Scriptures, you cannot use Scriptures to define the essence of “ersatz”. How do you know that Scriptures is the Word of God (and therefore infallible)?

Here are a few others:
The Assumption of Mary
The Holy Trinity
The immorality of Stem Cell Research
The Incarnation (kind of)

 

[Richard_Kastner]

But how do you know how many books are in each testament, and which books they actually have in them? It’s not off topic, it has a direct affect on whether or not sola scriptura is true which is a topic that you’ve been discussing with many people.

I guess that I could read the contents if I was so inclined, but I pretty much have them memorized. I know you’ve got some point to all this so why don’t you spit it out.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

Gen.3:15 is talking about God’s church. She did cooperate with Satan. Rom.3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ugh… Jesus DID NOT SIN! Therefore, this COULD NOT mean that all humanity be all-inclusive. I can already hear it: “Jesus was God and therefore is excluded from this verse.” How easy for you to say considering you are rejecting that He is both Man AND God! These are inseparable. Yes, Paul somewhere else says that He knew no sin. Rigthly so… Romans 3:23 would be self-contradictory SINCE HE MADE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THAT CLAUSE INSIDE THAT VERSE! That statement stands on its own but with the totality of Scriptures, he COULD NOT have meant it to include ALL of humanity. I will argue this point. Although, it may take me a while because I have no computer.

It is a simple exercise of objectivity in reasoning.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Here is an easy one (or two depending on how you look at it): The Canon and Infallibility of Scriptures. By definition, it would be unreasonable to reason this through Scriptures. You cannot use “ersatz” to define the essence of “ersatz”. Same with Scriptures, you cannot use Scriptures to define the essence of “ersatz”. How do you know that Scriptures is the Word of God (and therefore infallible)?

I’m sorry I have no idea what ersatz means.

Here are a few others:
The Assumption of Mary
The Holy Trinity
The immorality of Stem Cell Research

These are not necessary for our salvation.

The Incarnation (kind of)

Are you saying the incarnation is not in the bible?

 

[BlueShadow123]

First I wanted to say that catholics don’t worship Mary. They just hold her in a very high position. This is why you see statues of her, or pictures. Mary is the mother of Jesus, and not God. The bible does state some references that Mary could very well be the ‘queen’ of heaven, but it does not say exactly. But then again, its the bible. There are many things it does not say ‘directly’. You’re right that Jesus said everybody is a sinner. They just believe Mary is an exception. This is because Jesus is perfect so one would automatically assume he could not have been born from someone with sin. So we can assume she was sinless, but then again the bible doesn’t actually say she was ‘sinless’. Some of the apostles say she was sinless, but I do not have proof of that. Its an assumption. It would be nice if there was more information about her, but there isn’t. So you can assume she is sinless, and that she did not have any other kids, and that shes queen of heaven, or whatever you want to believe, thats up to you. I just wanted you to know they do not worship Mary. They do pray to her and some carry around statues of her. I personally think it would be smart to go to God himself with your prayers than somebody else. Thats what I do, and he answers me everytime I need something, so obviously me going to God/Jesus himself apparently is just fine if he answers me.

There is many other things that catholics do/believe that protestants don’t agree with, but I really wanted to clear that Mary part up for you.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Ugh… Jesus DID NOT SIN! Therefore, this COULD NOT mean that all humanity be all-inclusive. I can already hear it: “Jesus was God and therefore is excluded from this verse.” How easy for you to say considering you are rejecting that He is both Man AND God! These are inseparable. Yes, Paul somewhere else says that He knew no sin. Rigthly so… Romans 3:23 would be self-contradictory SINCE HE MADE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THAT CLAUSE INSIDE THAT VERSE! That statement stands on its own but with the totality of Scriptures, he COULD NOT have meant it to include ALL of humanity. I will argue this point. Although, it may take me a while because I have no computer.

It is a simple exercise of objectivity in reasoning.

I guess you didn’t read the whole post Heb.4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Jesus is the only exception.

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by GreggAlvarez
Here is an easy one (or two depending on how you look at it): The Canon and Infallibility of Scriptures. By definition, it would be unreasonable to reason this through Scriptures. You cannot use “ersatz” to define the essence of “ersatz”. Same with Scriptures, you cannot use Scriptures to define the essence of “ersatz”. How do you know that Scriptures is the Word of God (and therefore infallible)?

I’m sorry I have no idea what ersatz means.

Quote:
Here are a few others:
The Assumption of Mary
The Holy Trinity
The immorality of Stem Cell Research

These are not necessary for our salvation

.

Neither is Sola Scriptura!

Quote:
The Incarnation (kind of)

Are you saying the incarnation is not in the bible?

And are you saying Sola Scriptura is in the Bible? Chapter and verses? And spare me 2 Tim 3:16 because Paul did not write it in defense of Sola Scriptura.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

First I wanted to say that catholics don’t worship Mary. They just hold her in a very high position. This is why you see statues of her, or pictures. Mary is the mother of Jesus, and not God. The bible does state some references that Mary could very well be the ‘queen’ of heaven, but it does not say exactly. But then again, its the bible. There are many things it does not say ‘directly’. You’re right that Jesus said everybody is a sinner. They just believe Mary is an exception. This is because Jesus is perfect so one would automatically assume he could not have been born from someone with sin. So we can assume she was sinless, but then again the bible doesn’t actually say she was ‘sinless’. Some of the apostles say she was sinless, but I do not have proof of that. Its an assumption. It would be nice if there was more information about her, but there isn’t. So you can assume she is sinless, and that she did not have any other kids, and that shes queen of heaven, or whatever you want to believe, thats up to you. I just wanted you to know they do not worship Mary. They do pray to her and some carry around statues of her. I personally think it would be smart to go to God himself with your prayers than somebody else. Thats what I do, and he answers me everytime I need something, so obviously me going to God/Jesus himself apparently is just fine if he answers me.

There is many other things that catholics do/believe that protestants don’t agree with, but I really wanted to clear that Mary part up for you.

Thanks BlueShadow123. I don’t agre with many of the things you say, but I really like your idea of going directly to God.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Thanks BlueShadow123. I don’t agre with many of the things you say, but I really like your idea of going directly to God.

What dont you agree with in my post?

 

[zach_dunn]

I guess that I could read the contents if I was so inclined, but I pretty much have them memorized. I know you’ve got some point to all this so why don’t you spit it out.

You catch on quick! Well here’s my point: it takes an extra-biblical authority to tell you what even constitutes Scripture. There is no “inspired table of contents” (as people like to say) that came with the Bible. If everything you believe comes from the Bible alone, you haven’t even got a Bible to work with.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

“Ersatz” was just an example. Its meaning here is irrelevant. My point was that using “ersatz” to define what it is would be unreasonable. (Ersatz is an adjective for an inferior substitute for something.)

Your Hebrews statement goes to prove my point that we cannot use other verses to create exceptions for other verses. Yes, Jesus did not sin. Nor did Mary. “All have sinned” does not contradict that doctrine. If it did, then Jesus’ sinlessness is contradictory. My point still stands.

All true doctrine is necessary for salvation in ways we have not yet seen. There are no doctrines that can be left out of the picture. Some maybe are needed more than others. Who knows? But they are necessary. Anyway, I thought the Trinity one was pretty obvious for salvation. “God is love”. Look at the whole discourse on love in 1 John. That should help with how the Trinity is needed for our salvation. The Assumption of Mary shows how much love Mary had for God (among other things). Stem Cell Research is less important but it also important to learn the dignity of life in morality. What not to do is also important in the Christian life.

You said “faith and morals”. I gave you faith and morals. They are needed whether or not you can se the correlation.

And no… “The Incarnation” is NOT in the Bible. Just like “the Trinity” is not. We certainly believe them though.

Anyway, how do you know Scriptures are infallible?

 

[GreggAlvarez]

BlueShadow, this is not towards you. I thank you for your kind words and understanding tone in your post. This is just for those who fail to respect us which you are not in this category.

About the whole “praying to God” thing… Awesome! So do we. I fail to see why we do not pray directly to God when asking someone in Heaven to pray for us. God hears our prayers whether or not we say His Name in the prayer. Do you really think He cares if we ask our friends in Heaven who are perfected and glorify Him always? Do you think He minds us asking those HE HIMSELF perfected? Do you think He wants to keep our friends (Mary, Queen of Heaven, the angels, the saints and martyrs) in Heaven from helping us? Does He not hear our prayers regardless of who we are asking? In prayers in service where I play trumpet, I always hear after prayer, “We ask this through Christ, our Lord” or “In His name, we pray”. Rightly so. So, what does it matter whose name we say in Heaven? All prayer is through Christ, the One Mediator anyway. AND those prayers (which do not use God’s Name) are helpful. What does that say about its truth?
Or are we just kidding ourselves and we only think they work? (The atheist retort)

If you want to pray to God and only ask God for help, then fine. Nobody is criticizing that. But we do that also in every single prayer whether we pray to Mary, Saint Joseph or whoever. I am glad that you need nor want help from your brothers and sisters who have gone before you, but forgive us for asking for help from our perfected friends who are there in Heaven for us anyway as a cloud of witnesses (this sounds familiar). They are there for us anyway. We are Catholic and used to being hated, so I think it is wise that we seek help from above because it is all “through Him, with Him and in Him” anyway. I think it is a silly accusation especially when no thought-process is involved. He hears everyone’s prayers, not just the ones that say “Father”, “Christ”, “Lord”, “Holy Spirit”, “God”.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

“Ersatz” was just an example. Its meaning here is irrelevant. My point was that using “ersatz” to define what it is would be unreasonable. (Ersatz is an adjective for an inferior substitute for something.)

Your Hebrews statement goes to prove my point that we cannot use other verses to create exceptions for other verses. Yes, Jesus did not sin. Nor did Mary. “All have sinned” does not contradict that doctrine. If it did, then Jesus’ sinlessness is contradictory. My point still stands.

So, if I’m reading you right, once a statement is made ie. Rom.3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; it cannot be amended in any way ie.Heb.4:15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. There is a couple of problems with this thinking. 1) The bible does say that “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” and it also says “For we have not an high priest…but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” In order to follow your reasoning we have to say that one or both of these statements is false. Are you prepared to call God a liar? 2) While Rom.3:23 makes an amendment for Jesus I cannot find anyplace where the same can be said for Mary. So the assumption that she is sinless is unwarranted.

All true doctrine is necessary for salvation in ways we have not yet seen.

Prove it.

There are no doctrines that can be left out of the picture. Some maybe are needed more than others. Who knows? But they are necessary. Anyway, I thought the Trinity one was pretty obvious for salvation. “God is love”. Look at the whole discourse on love in 1 John. That should help with how the Trinity is needed for our salvation. The Assumption of Mary shows how much love Mary had for God (among other things). Stem Cell Research is less important but it also important to learn the dignity of life in morality. What not to do is also important in the Christian life.

This is all conjecture on your part. None of those doctrine that you posted are essential for our salvation Here is what is.
Acts4
10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rom.1
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom.10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph.1
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

There are of coarse others, but you get the idea.

You said “faith and morals”. I gave you faith and morals. They are needed whether or not you can se the correlation.

Not sure what you mean here.

And no… “The Incarnation” is NOT in the Bible. Just like “the Trinity” is not. We certainly believe them though.

What in the world are the Gospels about if not the incarnation of Jesus?

Anyway, how do you know Scriptures are infallible?

Are you saying their not?