Not eating meat on Fridays

[FrDavid96]

If one doesn’t do any act of penance on a Friday is this considered sinful, or is the “under pain of sin” gone from that?

I don’t think it would be considered sinful to simply not-do any particular act of penance on a Friday. It might be neglecting one’s spiritual well-being, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s an outright sin unless someone were to take this too far.

 

[revert_jen]

Why do you think the requirement was dropped?

My understanding is that it was left up to the bishop’s conferences to decide for each country whether it would be dropped. Unfortunately, I believe one reason that it was dropped was that Catholics wanted to be seen as just like everyone else, and the whole “no meat on Fridays” thing was something that made the Catholic minority stand out.

But the two better reasons already stated are that it makes no sense to require, say, a vegetarian to abstain from meat, and therefore having a more variable practice makes it more relevant to people. Also, allowing you to choose what the penance is, helps us (especially as we are in the minority) be able to have social engagements on Fridays without putting hosts and hostesses to extra trouble. That way, my penance is my penance, not my hostess’s penance.

Also, I’m not sure that I agree that, for example, not watching TV on Friday is not as good as abstaining from meat, as far as constraining your passions is concerned. For some people, giving up TV is a lot harder than giving up meat. I feel very fortunate not to be one of those people.

That is just my thoughts and what I have heard. I’m not sure what the official answer is.

–Jen

 

[jmcrae]

Also, I’m not sure that I agree that, for example, not watching TV on Friday is not as good as abstaining from meat, as far as constraining your passions is concerned. For some people, giving up TV is a lot harder than giving up meat. I feel very fortunate not to be one of those people.

It’s probably also better for your soul, considering what’s on TV these days.

 

[josephdaniel29]

For what purpose do the Orthodox fast? Is it not to discipline their bodies and join their sufferings to Christ on the Cross in reparation for sins?

I’ve certainly never heard that the purpose of fasting is to suffer. Quite simply restraint of the stomach is seen as the surest path to restraint of the passions. St Ignatius Brianchaninov said…

Wise temperance of the stomach is a door to all the virtues. Restrain the stomach, and you will enter Paradise. But if you please and pamper your stomach, you will hurl yourself over the precipice of bodily impurity, into the fire of wrath and fury, you will coarsen and darken your mind, and in this way you will ruin your powers of attention and self-control, your sobriety and vigilance.

I’m sure there are themes of penance and reparation in regards to Orthodox thought on fasting it’s just not nearly as dominant as it appears to be in Catholicism.

In Christ
Joe

 

[josephdaniel29]

But the two better reasons already stated are that it makes no sense to require, say, a vegetarian to abstain from meat, and therefore having a more variable practice makes it more relevant to people. Also, allowing you to choose what the penance is, helps us (especially as we are in the minority) be able to have social engagements on Fridays without putting hosts and hostesses to extra trouble. That way, my penance is my penance, not my hostess’s penance.

I guess considering that the Catholic Church does tend to approach things from a much more legalistic standpoint that does make sense. Every Orthodox priest I’ve ever known says that if you are offered meat on a fast day, out of love you should eat a little so as not to offend your host and then fast the next day. Also we get a blessing from our spiritual father for our fasting regimen so the vegetarian would make other arrangements with him. Are you required to get a blessing for whatever penance you decide to do?

In Christ
Joe

 

[Vico]

I know I’m going off topic but when was Pope John Paul II beatified? I thought the cause had only got as far as him being declared a Servant of God.

Sorry about that, I am wrong to use Blessed. I checked and found out that it did not happen as I thought on April 2, 2010. It is still in process because doctors are still analyzing a supposed miracle attributed to him (a French nun was allegedly cured from Parkinson’s through praying to Pope John Paul II).

 

[revert_jen]

I guess considering that the Catholic Church does tend to approach things from a much more legalistic standpoint that does make sense. Every Orthodox priest I’ve ever known says that if you are offered meat on a fast day, out of love you should eat a little so as not to offend your host and then fast the next day.

Legalistic is not a nice word. Shades of the Pharisees. You’ll get better responses from Catholics if you avoid it. I’m just sayin’.

My understanding is that it is only a sin if you fail to “substantially” perform the fast and/or abstinence, or if you fail to perform it on purpose. For example, if you forget it’s Friday and eat a little meat, it’s not a huge deal. But if you treat Friday like it’s any other day in Lent, it’s a much bigger deal. I may be remembering it wrong.

In general, I just tend not to go to (non-Catholic) people’s houses at times when food may be served on Fridays in Lent, and certainly I wouldn’t go to a meal at someone’s house on a fast day. Of course, we only have two of them a year, so it’s a lot easier on the social calendar.

Are you required to get a blessing for whatever penance you decide to do?

Nope. It’s between you and God, although the bishops’ conference provides several suggestions.

–Jen

 

[Adeodatus]

I don’t think it would be considered sinful to simply not-do any particular act of penance on a Friday. It might be neglecting one’s spiritual well-being, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s an outright sin unless someone were to take this too far.

Dear Father, would this not constitute the sin of acedia?

 

[Azurestone]

Dear Father, would this not constitute the sin of acedia?

No. Try not to find fault in all disagreement.

Sloth is the extreme passion. Not fasting is disregarding a recommended action for your own spiritual growth. You have to ask the question: Why am I doing this? Because someone told me to? You won’t get anything out of it that way.

You’re giving up something partly to teach yourself to how to say no. Therefore saying no to sin becomes easier. Remember, meat is only the minimum. Some people do much more.

Additionally, Jesus died on a Friday. So every Friday, you remember Him by your fast.

 

[FrDavid96]

Dear Father, would this not constitute the sin of acedia?

I think that’s taking it too far in the opposite direction to make such a broad statement. Yes, it could/might, but to say that it “constitutes the sin…” is a bit much.

 

[Cristiano]

I guess considering that the Catholic Church does tend to approach things from a much more legalistic standpoint that does make sense. Every Orthodox priest I’ve ever known says that if you are offered meat on a fast day, out of love you should eat a little so as not to offend your host and then fast the next day. Also we get a blessing from our spiritual father for our fasting regimen so the vegetarian would make other arrangements with him. Are you required to get a blessing for whatever penance you decide to do?

In Christ
Joe

Legalistic is not a nice word. Shades of the Pharisees. You’ll get better responses from Catholics if you avoid it. I’m just sayin’.
…

Legalistic is the correct word. A lot of Catholics use this term when describing different aspects of our rituals. Latin Catholics and Eastern Catholics often agree that the Latin Church uses more of a legalistic explanation for Her norms while the Eastern Catholic Churches use an approach based on mystery and spirituality. Legalistic is not a Pharisaic thing, it is just a cultural approach. The Latin Church grew on the cultural background of the Roman Empire which developed the present concept of legal systems, just look at the history of the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Catholic Church and the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[otjm]

If fish isn’t actually penitential to you

then you have never eaten dried-out, over-cooked fish sticks…

 

[Adeodatus]

then you have never eaten dried-out, over-cooked fish sticks…

Indeed. Although by that logic I suppose you could also make a steak penitential, like by cooking it so much that it doesn’t bleed when you cut into it. But that’s also a tragedy, so don’t do it!

 

[otjm]

Indeed. Although by that logic I suppose you could also make a steak penitential, like by cooking it so much that it doesn’t bleed when you cut into it. But that’s also a tragedy, so don’t do it!

Well, where I come from we know how to throw a fresh salmon or steelhead on the barbecue. But it was not until I entered the Army that I found out fish could actually be done in a none-penitential way. Go figure.

Having spent 13 months in Fort Hood, just out of Killeen, I got a view of Texans. They know beef.

But they don’t know squat about real fish (bass are for tournaments and fast boats, and not much else). Seared Ahi, alder smoked salmon, mushroom stuffing in steelhead, melt in your mouth trout along side the stream - there is more to life than just a steak. And that is not knocking steak! How do I like piece of cow? Done just enough that I don’t have to chase it down the street!