Not enough evidence sir

[PRmerger]

God,
Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is empirical.

That is arbitrary, sam. You could very well say, “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is philosophical.”

Or another random declaration could be, " “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is musical.”

Or, you could say, “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is clandestine.”

Or “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is voluminous.”

You simply chose “empirical” as an arbitrary criterion, but it doesn’t follow, at all, from your premise.

 

[PRmerger]

Please don’t assume things I never said,

My apologies! :tiphat:

I was talking about after death, AFTER knowing that the Christian god EXISTS, I would reject him for his characters as it’s mentioned in Holy books.

Then, if you reject him, after knowing that he exists, then God, being ever the gentleman, will not force you against your will to be with him.

Now, I have never, ever said this to anyone, as I feel that it is certainly above our paygrade to declare anyone to be in hell, but I daresay that IF you really do embrace this hypothetical, then there is no where else for you except to be in hell.

NB: I emphasize again that this is not for us to proclaim, and I can only proffer again that the qualifier here is those 2 little letters: I-F.

 

[PRmerger]

Talking about ego, you like the Character of the Catholic God, if it turns out after death that The Islamic god exists, would you accept or reject him?
If you reject him, would that be considered as “ego”?

Well, as Catholicism proclaims that we share belief in the One True God with Muslims, I suppose that I would say “Hello!”

 

[samiam1611]

That is arbitrary, sam. You could very well say, “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is philosophical.”

Or another random declaration could be, " “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is musical.”

Or, you could say, “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is clandestine.”

Or “Since there are so many contradictory religions and hoaxes and stuff out there, the only way to trust the evidence is if it is voluminous.”

You simply chose “empirical” as an arbitrary criterion, but it doesn’t follow, at all, from your premise.

I didn’t arbitrarily choose the word empirical lol. It’s the word the OP used!
But actually I just realized I said (again, just echoing the OP) that was the only way to know if something is true, but that’s not really what I think. I just think that it is the best way, for most circumstances. God could proven His existence empirically if He was so inclined, and since He hasn’t (with the arguable exception of those who personally knew Jesus or other physical manifestations of God), there is no compelling reason, for me, to believe.

 

[User124]

My apologies! :tiphat:

Then, if you reject him, after knowing that he exists, then God, being ever the gentleman, will not force you against your will to be with him.

Now, I have never, ever said this to anyone, as I feel that it is certainly above our paygrade to declare anyone to be in hell, but I daresay that IF you really do embrace this hypothetical, then there is no where else for you except to be in hell.

NB: I emphasize again that this is not for us to proclaim, and I can only proffer again that the qualifier here is those 2 little letters: I-F.

Well whatever! I prefer to live my life in a good way to myself and others without worrying about what comes after death when there is no evidence of after life, heaven, hell, resurrections or rebirth, these are only a part of claims, philosophical theories and imaginations. There is as well a lot of scientific and logical evidences to dismiss these things, and of course a lot of historical positions and facts to hold regarding the making-up of such mythologies, even before Christianity. I am afraid one day that the mummies return! not really.

Well, as Catholicism proclaims that we share belief in the One True God with Muslims, I suppose that I would say “Hello!”

That’s good, but I smell politics here, not the truth, read the Qu’ran whenever you can, and you’ll find out.

And btw you are still putting some conditions on that God.

 

[djames99]

I wasn’t making a theological expository on who speaks to saints.

I was simply giving an example of how you could speak to God, since you were positing questions as to how it could be done.

I could have been clearer,sorry.

 

[djames99]

I don’t understand why *you *get to denigrate your own kind but others can’t.

For instance?

 

[PRmerger]

I didn’t arbitrarily choose the word empirical lol. It’s the word the OP used!

That’s irrelevant, sam. Using “empirical” does not follow from your premise.

But actually I just realized I said (again, just echoing the OP) that was the only way to know if something is true, but that’s not really what I think. I just think that it is the best way, for most circumstances. God could proven His existence empirically if He was so inclined, and since He hasn’t (with the arguable exception of those who personally knew Jesus or other physical manifestations of God), there is no compelling reason, for me, to believe.

I find it curious that non-believers often posit that they want a “compelling reason” or “a good argument” for God’s existence. There is no singular argument or reason that could be compelling enough for most people. But taken in their entirety, there are a multitude of “compelling reasons” or “good arguments” that look very, very promising.

One reason by itself wouldn’t be convincing. But lots and lots of arguments that make you go ought to make a true seeker reconsider.

 

[PRmerger]

For instance?

This.

I think this is rather insensitive. I don’t see him dictating terms, but simply the theme of trying to understand the communication process. Not knowing what is being received or understood, he relates his attempts to do so. There is nothing disrespectful in his tone, in fact this is one more plea in a list of many in the past. This is in my book prayer material.

And this.

Folks, why are we so ready to denigrate our own kind? I don’t understand this. .

 

[PRmerger]

That’s good, but I smell politics here, not the truth, read the Qu’ran whenever you can, and you’ll find out

You are proposing that the Catholic Church changed her position towards Islam because of politics?

Can you proffer some evidence of the position of the CC prior to this Catechism that has changed?

And btw you are still putting some conditions on that God.

How so?

 

[PRmerger]

Well whatever!

Fair enough.

I just don’t want you to be proclaiming to others, based on this thread, “Catholics have told me that I am going to hell!”

Because that wouldn’t be a true statement.

I find it offensive when Catholics tell people who’s going to hell and who’s saved.

 

[Al_Moritz]

That’s good, but I smell politics here, not the truth, read the Qu’ran whenever you can, and you’ll find out.

False. The identity of the Islamic God with the Christian God is purely given by basic philosophical considerations.

 

[User124]

False. The identity of the Islamic God with the Christian God is purely given by basic philosophical considerations.

Is being called " the God of Abraham " enough for giving both of these god’s characters same identity?

Well, as Catholicism proclaims that we share belief in the One True God with Muslims, I suppose that I would say “Hello!”

The “same beliefs” you share with Muslims are based on the Old testament, if the Muslim God exists as it is in the Qu’ran, it means that most of the New testament beliefs are dismissed and denied, which constitute the core of Christianity and Catholicism including the divinity, death, resurrection of Jesus and his salvation plan.
Let us not to forget that Qu’ran and the prophecy of Mohammed which constitute the basics of Islam are dismissed by Christians as well.
That’s even without mentioning in details the differences in God’s characters and laws in both religions.

Fair enough.

I just don’t want you to be proclaiming to others, based on this thread, “Catholics have told me that I am going to hell!”

Because that wouldn’t be a true statement.

I find it offensive when Catholics tell people who’s going to hell and who’s saved.

I never heard a Catholic saying I’m going to Hell and I know you didn’t say so, if it happens that a Catholic say such a thing, it would be against the Catholic teachings.

 

[djames99]

This.

And this.

I assume a boardroom like problem solving environment where heads try to come up with a solution. Intent and motive plays a part.

 

[PRmerger]

I assume a boardroom like problem solving environment where heads try to come up with a solution. Intent and motive plays a part.

There you go.

So if you could please extend that paradigm to Catholics on this forum, rather than to yourself only.

 

[PRmerger]

I never heard a Catholic saying I’m going to Hell and I know you didn’t say so, if it happens that a Catholic say such a thing, it would be against the Catholic teachings.

 

[PRmerger]

Is being called " the God of Abraham " enough for giving both of these god’s characters same identity?

The Muslims share belief in the One True God. In that we are joined to them as brethren.

The “same beliefs” you share with Muslims are based on the Old testament, if the Muslim God exists as it is in the Qu’ran, it means that most of the New testament beliefs are dismissed and denied, which constitute the core of Christianity and Catholicism including the divinity, death, resurrection of Jesus and his salvation plan.
Let us not to forget that Qu’ran and the prophecy of Mohammed which constitute the basics of Islam are dismissed by Christians as well.
That’s even without mentioning in details the differences in God’s characters and laws in both religions.

To the degree that Islam separates itself from the truths of Christianity is the degree that they have departed from the Truth.

No Catholic here is proclaiming that Islam = Christianity.

 

[da_nolo]

I’ve been pondering Bertrand Russells response to the question he was asked… “What if you’re wrong and God does exist. What are you going to say to Him?” To which Russell replied… “You didn’t provide enough evidence sir!”. I’ve been pondering several hypothetical follow up questions to that response which God… (Provided of course that He does exist, and is Jesus which we Catholics believe) could potentially ask.

The first hypothetical follow up question is: Who told you that empirical evidence was the only way I could be found?
To which you say?

The second hypothetical question is: You had as much evidence as people who found the evidence sufficient to seek me, love me, and serve me… Why did you choose to reject me when others found the available evidence sufficient for belief?
To which you say?

I know! I know!

whats the point?

think about it. at the end of the day - for however clever-minded or however much of a smart mouth you are:

1. you might be disrespectful which in the long hull leads away from “love thy neighbor” and “love thy enemy”. not only is this violation towards various things Jesus said, but is included w/ “thou shall not kill”.
2. due to the above and possibly other reasons, it clouds your head. you’re now focus on getting at the man, instead of allowing the man understand you. this can lead to wrath or some other sins quite possibly.
3. doesn’t sound like this guy is going to change his mind simply because you *zing *him. among friends its funny - but for a non-believer or someone as much of a jerk as this guy may be, his opinion won’t change.

sometimes we have to step back, away from cynical ideals and people. instead, try focusing on other things that may help society/serve God. keep our heads clear.

 

[User124]

The Muslims share belief in the One True God. In that we are joined to them as brethren.

Maybe!

No but you are proclaiming that the Muslim God = th Christian God.

 

[djames99]

There you go.

So if you could please extend that paradigm to Catholics on this forum, rather than to yourself only.

So now we resort to special pleading in this vindictive ad hominal spiral. My contribution stands on it’s own merits inadequate and imperfect as it may be, neither are you required to respond to my posts.