Not enough non catholic here

[AbideWithMe]

Do you understand why we believe the Apostles believed and taught that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

Guanophore–

After nearly two years of reading the many lengthy threads on EENS that keep cropping up here, at this point all I understand is that Catholics strongly disagree with each other about this. It seems like a big mess to me; I’m kind of sick of the subject. I do understand how the CCC interprets the phrase “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

 

[guanophore]

Truthstalker—You make a very good point about nuances in another group’s beliefs being lost, whether it’s Catholic or non-Catholic nuances.

Sadly, though, I’ve seen numerous Catholics who are quite well-versed in other areas of Catholicism take the hard-line view of the meaning of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

Yes, I have seen this too, especially in the Traditional subforum. It is very sad indeed. They do not seem to be a bit concerned that their attitude contradicts what the Church believes and teaches.

Guanophore–

After nearly two years of reading the many lengthy threads on EENS that keep cropping up here, at this point all I understand is that Catholics strongly disagree with each other about this. It seems like a big mess to me; I’m kind of sick of the subject. I do understand how the CCC interprets the phrase “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

Ok, just wanted to make sure. The Apostles taught that there is only One Church, One Faith, One Body. So it stands to reason that all who are saved through connection with Christ as the Head will therefore become members of Him (His One Body, the Church). Since His is the only name under heaven by which we may be saved, there is no salvation outside of Him, and there is no connection with Him that does not also make a person a member of His Body.

Glad you understand the CCC on this.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, I just came across several posts along the lines of this again tonight. I will PM you for now, PR—they were in a thread wherein several posters were talking unkindly about a well-known Catholic person, and I don’t wish to draw attention to that misbegotten thread.

Edit: One post from a Catholic, on the thread I read tonight says “He* also has a very relativist perspective on salvation----meaning, you don’t have to be a Catholic to be saved.” For what it’s worth, with some hesitation, the poster was icononfire. * “He” being another Catholic who was being talked about in the thread.

I just read the posts.

There is NOTHING in there by any Catholic that states anything even close to "“praise God they have seen the light and are no longer heathen but are now saved”

I have been on the CAFs for a long time, and I have rarely seen any Catholic (except for the Traditionalists) say that a non-Catholic is destined for hell unless he converts.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I just read the posts.

There is NOTHING in there by any Catholic that states anything even close to "“praise God they have seen the light and are no longer heathen but are now saved”

I have been on the CAFs for a long time, and I have rarely seen any Catholic (except for the Traditionalists) say that a non-Catholic is destined for hell unless he converts.

PR–It’s post 53 in the John Michael Talbot thread in Popular Media. Icononfire foolishly calls JMT a well-intentioned heretic, with one of his so-called heresies being that “He is very relativistic–meaning, that you don’t have to be Catholic to be saved.” (I’m sorry to bring up such an uncharitable thread…with apologies to JMT, who is has been one of my favorite Christian musicians since I was in my mid-teens.)

Yes, I agree with your second paragraph…it’s usually from among the Traditionalists that I see Catholics saying a non-Catholic is destined for hell unless they convert. It’s certainly not all Traditionalists, by any means, but I’ve seen it so often that it can’t be just a few, either.

 

[vera_dicere]

Actually I would disagree, protestants are taught to avoid Catholics as much as they can, because “Catholics are evil”. The only time protestants really argue, is when you meet them up in the street, or attack their systems first. They do not really care much about about knowing Catholics or their culture, and will often refuse to join anything that is Catholic, even this forum.

Don’t cut my head off for this post, I’m speaking here based on my own experiences, and the ones of people I know. Of course, not all protestants are like that.

I’d agree with that. Especially from my real life experience. My protestant friends will often times get me to read Protestant books but will always flat out refuse to read anything that is written by a Catholic or Catholic in its nature.

Of course, online, as others have said, Catholic forum, probably majority Catholics. I do like the atheists here. They seem more charitable and well mannered then those on other forums I"ve visited.

 

[PRmerger]

PR–It’s post 53 in the John Michael Talbot thread in Popular Media.

The thread with iconfire discussing JMT only goes up to post #35.

 

[PRmerger]

I do like the atheists here. They seem more charitable and well mannered then those on other forums I"ve visited.

Yes. Some atheists here are top-notch people. I’d want them to have my back over some Christians any day.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, I agree with your second paragraph…it’s usually from among the Traditionalists that I see Catholics saying a non-Catholic is destined for hell unless they convert. It’s certainly not all Traditionalists, by any means, but I’ve seen it so often that it can’t be just a few, either.

Yeah, well…(my personal opinion here–not representing any Catholic teaching) I believe that Traditionalists ought not be considered Catholic. They have divorced themselves from the teachings of the Apostles and are, to borrow a phrase from Apologist Patrick Madrid, “More Catholic than the pope.”

 

[guanophore]

 PR--It's post 53 in the John Michael Talbot thread in Popular Media. Icononfire foolishly calls JMT a well-intentioned heretic, with one of his so-called heresies being that "He is very relativistic--meaning, that you don't have to be Catholic to be saved." (I'm sorry to bring up such an uncharitable thread....with apologies to JMT, who is has been one of my favorite Christian musicians since I was in my mid-teens.)

Oh I love JMT! He has been one of my favorites too for decades. Of course he is a very humble man, who has subjected his views to the Church and the Scripture. He will not judge the status of a soul, and leaves that determination up to God.

Yes, I agree with your second paragraph…it’s usually from among the Traditionalists that I see Catholics saying a non-Catholic is destined for hell unless they convert. It’s certainly not all Traditionalists, by any means, but I’ve seen it so often that it can’t be just a few, either.

Technically speaking, all of mankind is “destined for hell” until we are rescued and placed upon that narrow road by Jesus. Catholics have been taught to believe that we have the most accurate road signs and informational kiosks on that road, and that navigating the narrow road without these is even more difficult.

Matt 7:13-14

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Luke 13:23-25
23 And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’

The Aposltes taught that the Way was kept in custody by the Apostles and those appointed by them (Bishops, elders and deacons). Those disciples of the Apostles taught that the Church founded by Christ could be found gathered around the Bishop.

So from a Catholic point of view, it is not meant to be an exclusive perspective, but rather, focused on being included with the Way that was given once for all to the Church.

 

[AbideWithMe]

The thread with iconfire discussing JMT only goes up to post #35.

Oops, sorry–that should be post #23, not #53, by icononfire.

 

[Doghouse]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

I believe many Protestants come to their faith by socialization and culture as kids. So there is a comfort level in a familiar belief, which may not have any merit in terms of accuracy, validity, or authority.

It is difficult to participate on the errant side of this discussion, however, there are forums out there in the world with little or no moderation (or the case of the mods being as crazy as some of the participants) in which the vitriol and hatred of Catholics fly with reckless abandon.

…and one simply has to consider the justice and politeness of participating in that type of setting, in effect fanning and feeding the flames…