Not feeling guilty for IVF

[Rosalinda]

The original poster, hemberson has asked:
[sign]Is it ok to be ok with going against the church when I feel guilty for not feeling guilty?[/sign]

In other words, you no longer feel guilty. If at one time you felt guilty enough to seek healing in the sacrament of reconciliation in which you received absolution why should you still feel guilty? My goodness, that is precisely why Jesus is there, in the confessional, acting through his ministers to give all the prodigal sons and daughters healing and forgiveness.

What matters now is how resolved are you and your husband not to repeat this sin in the future? :juggle: This from the new Catholic Catechism.

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again." (Council of Trent, 1551)

[sign]“Cast away from you all your transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make to yourselves a new heart and a new spirit”.[/sign] Ezechial 18:31

Trust in Divine Mercy and be at peace.

 

[Seatuck]

OP…sorry you asked?

My suggestions:

1. Go to confession and talk to a priest about this.
2. Love your kid.
3. Don’t do it again.

Agree with this. Meditate before the Blessed Sacrament asking that you not be “led” again into sin.
“lead us not into temptation” is what I’m thinking about.

 

[KathleenElsie]

news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/couple-sues-fertility-clinic-for-wrong/20070322065109990002?ecid=RSS0001

Updated:2007-03-22 07:05:45
Couple Sues Fertility Clinic for Wrong Sperm
Lawsuit Says Baby Darker Than Either Parent

AP
NEW YORK (March 22) - After they saw a baby girl they had gone to a fertility clinic to conceive, her parents became convinced something was wrong, according to court papers.

The girl’s skin was darker than either parent’s, a judge wrote in allowing the parents to proceed with a lawsuit that claims the clinic botched the insemination of the wife’s eggs. The ruling was made public Wednesday.

“While we love Baby Jessica as our own, we are reminded of this terrible mistake each and every time we look at her; it is simply impossible to ignore,” state [Supreme Court](javascript: Justice Sheila Abdus-Salaam’s decision quoted parents Thomas and Nancy Andrews as saying.

“We are conscious of and distressed by this mistake each and every time we appear in public,” the judge quoted the Andrewses’ affidavit as saying.

Another reason to not use IVF.

 

[vera_dicere]

God can forgive anything if people ask for it. IVF can be exceptionally evil, especially when you start getting peopel who have 20 odd embryos created, screened, the defective ones weeded out, the unwanted ones destoryed or experiemented with, then it gets really nasty when too many embryos implant and we start talking selective termination.

Sometimes God can take a really nasty sin and give us a gift, to show us his love, mercy and compassion. I think you do, in some ways, feel guilt, why else post about it? I know of a Catholic family who did IVF the whole way, and they were tellng me about how they had 28 embies created, most were destoryed because they were found to be possibly Downs’ effected, then 7 were placed in the womb, and all 7 implanted. The couple went onto have a selective termination of at least 5, unforuntately, their attempts to play God back fired with tragic results, the abortions of the five caused them to loose all 7 children. They had desperately wanted children, and even though they had already screened and destoryed quite a few, God gave them 7, they decided 7 wasn’t the right number, so they ended up with 0,

IVF is a sin. Your child isn’t. God will forgive you for it. But about forgiveness, it isn’t an “A-OK” to go out and do it again. Concurrently, I think IVF takes the act of creation out of both the hands of the couple and God, and places the most vunlerable of human life in the hands of scientists.

 

[juno24]

I’m just curious, which is the truth here? In this current thread you state that you only fertilized 2 eggs, and so had no left over embryos, yet about a year and half ago you started a similar thread in which you stated that you had many left over embryos.

After many miscarriages, my husband and I went through IVF. We clearly understood the church’s teachings and for a while were against doing it, Over time, we can truly say we felt led to do it…we found a dr who was willing to work with our requests in regards to not destroying or freezing any embryos…we ended up fertilizing 2 and the result was one healthy baby. The problem is we dont feel guilty one bit as we feel at peace and feel God’s hand upon us the whole time. I know the church disagrees, but we felt led and felt after our prayers that theses doors were opening and to find the dr who worked with our desires. I look at our child and feel no regret and feel God’s hand was with us during this hard decision. Of course I ahve confessed for going against the church, but I dont feel guilty as I look at my child and know he was brought to us by the miracle of God working through science. Is it ok to be ok with going against the church when I feel guilty for not feeling guilty?

Link to previous thread

hemberson:

Please help me out here…I am very blessed with 2 children we conceived with no problems. Since then, I have suffered multiple miscarriages and ectopics, resulting in the loss of many pregnancies. For the past few years, we have been told IVF is our only option. Knowing it was against the church, we didnt even think about it. This past year, after my last loss I realized that the only way we could even conceive would probably be through IVF. We so desire a big family…after prayer and much thought, we peacefully opted to attempt one round of minimal stimulation where they hoped to get a few eggs and we said we would implant 2. I knew deep down that we may have excess embryos, but wasnt too concerned, thinking that probably wouldnt happen and we wouldnt have to make that decision. I had no problem with the procedure, just didnt want to have leftover embryos. Well, we are midway through and it looks like we will ahev leftover embryos. I want to be excited and feel like God’s hand is upon us and yet I am fearing the worst as I will probably have embryos that I either need to donate to others, to science or dispose of, which I refuse to do. I cant turn back, but now I wonder what do I do? I am scared…and up until the other day I felt so peaceful and felt so many prayers. We go in for the transfer of 2 embryos on Sunday and I keep thinking these may be the new additions to the family…I am not upset we did this, I just thought for sure we wouldnt have so many embryos left. Please share thoughts, advice…

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](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=851774)

 

[wanner47]

I’m just curious, which is the truth here? In this current thread you state that you only fertilized 2 eggs, and so had no left over embryos, yet about a year and half ago you started a similar thread in which you stated that you had many left over embryos.

If you’d had multiple miscarriages, why would IVF be your “only” solution? For recurrent ectopics, perhaps, but IVF has the same miscarriage rate (perhaps higher) than naturally conceived pregnancies.

 

[houston1]

hemberson,

From your post, I have a hard time believing that you do not feel any guilt from what you have done. I believe you are seeking validation. As someone who has also done IVF (although in my case it was unsuccessful), I can completely empathize with you. The desire to have a baby is a tremendous and almost overwhelming. I am not certain whether you are culpable for your decision to do IVF. Only God knows for certain. However, what I will say is that the decision you chose was not God’s perfect will.

I am thankful that you went to confession for this. I also went to confession for my sin, and it *was *a sin, a grave one at that. I hope and pray for God’s mercy.

The good news is that God is *mercy * and he is waiting for us just like we are the prodigal son. You can decide to use your bad decision to create a good outcome by following God’s perfect will in the future.

I will pray for you. God bless.

 

[Katie1723]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

 

[Seatuck]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

What does this prove except that we are sinners. We will sometimes do anything not to share in the cross that God has provided for us to share with him. Sometimes it seems we “get” away with sin in this life. Having a baby through IVF is an excellent example. God will sometimes do wonderful things inspite of what we do. That’s not what we are supposed to be concerned about however. It’s the eternal life. Forgiveness only happens when we are repentant. That’s really the concern of this thread. We have a poster who has gone to confession with something that she is not repentant of. She has gone throught the motions and has no contrition. That’s what worries me. She feels guilty for not having had real repentance. She is confused most likely because she has the joyfulness of her child. I’m hoping she will condider careful discernment and work on the culpability of her actions and not the end result.

Unless that is not what the OP meant.Hopefully she will clarify.

 

[rayne89]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

I think you should only speak for yourself. I can not carry anymore children due to my health (I have one child) I could have easily chose to have a surrogate to carry a child, infact I’m certain my best friend would have done it for me. I wanted a big family to or at least a sibling for my daughter. I knew that was not an option because it goes against what the church teaches. Even if I had not been able to carry any I’m not going to create many in the hopes of having one or two allowing the rest to die and I’m not going to claim to Catholic and then knowingly spit in the face of one of the churches teachings regardless I what I want. If I was in the OP’s position and could carry children I would have sought to adopt a “snowflake baby”, a child already created and waiting in limbo. Don’t presume so many others would turn their backs on God’s will.

 

[fix]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

But the Catholic answer is the answer from Christ. If we claim to love God why do we want to disobey Him?

 

[hasikelee]

Quote by Fix:That fertilized eggs do not implant, or that spontaneous abortions occur, is morally different from actively choosing to engage in an illicit act with knowledge such an act will have that outcome.

It is like folks who justify direct abortion by reasoning it happens often spontaneously in nature so it must be ok to have one

.

This is the crux of the argument that is being downplayed in why it is considered grave sin by the Church.

IVF is a process that chooses to take conception outside of the womb to risk the lives of numerous pre-born children and the life of the mother. It has a high rate of non-implantation and miscarriage.

What is the difference between IVF and babies naturally dying during the process of pregnancy?

That is like asking: what is the difference between shooting a baby and naturally dying through the process of growing up?

What is the difference between partial birth infanticide and a stillborn?

What is the difference between starving grandma and her naturally dying?

Oh, it’s all about the choices. To the OP: maybe you feel a tug and guilt because of this choice. You recognize that your desire was fulfilled. You have the baby you wanted. But your other baby isn’t here and that was your choice.

Women who have lost children through their own choice can suffer from a wide range of trials, and one of them is definitely guilt. Other symptoms include PTSD, depression, substance abuse, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, eating disorders, preoccupation with the choice, inability to maintain relationships, recurring nightmares and more.

Help is available. Rachel’s Vineyard is one of the best. Check them out for more information.

 

[st_lucy]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

I find this a little offensive. There are quite a bit of us who are suffering from exactly the same thing the op did, and even when I was away from my faith I didn’t think it was right. If you feel you are called to have children maybe it is only through adoption. It is a very selfish thing to do IVF due to the fact that you are willing to create and than kill. In adoption you are giving a child that is already here a chance in a loving home.

So no I don’t think everyone feels that they would do this.

 

[lizaanne]

I find this a little offensive. There are quite a bit of us who are suffering from exactly the same thing the op did, and even when I was away from my faith I didn’t think it was right. If you feel you are called to have children maybe it is only through adoption. It is a very selfish thing to do IVF due to the fact that you are willing to create and than kill. In adoption you are giving a child that is already here a chance in a loving home.

So no I don’t think everyone feels that they would do this.

I have to very strongly agree with this. As I stated earlier in the thread:

I was infertile for 11 years before totally giving up and coming to terms with God’s will that I will be childless. Because I realized that to go against His will is to live contrary to my Faith and my Church, and my God.

So to say that “many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.” is clearly not true or even accurate.

~Liza

 

[KathleenElsie]

I read through the previous posts and it sounds like we have a giant cat fight going on.
Personally, I was fortunate to have 2 children the “normal”(for lack of a better word) way. But had I not been able to, I would have done anything to make that happen. And I would venture to say that many of us here who have given the “Catholic” answer, would have done exactly the same.

Kathy

I can answer for myself. My husband and I had two natural children and many many problems that led to a hysterectomy to save my life. We raised seven children God gave us them all. Adoption and fostering are loving ways to add to a family and is just as God given as birthing.

So no I would not have availed myself of the “new technology” to produce life and then kill it.

 

[juno24]

If you’d had multiple miscarriages, why would IVF be your “only” solution? For recurrent ectopics, perhaps, but IVF has the same miscarriage rate (perhaps higher) than naturally conceived pregnancies.

I’m not sure why you’re addressing this to me, as I’m not the OP, but I was wondering the same thing.

I’m also still wondering why she started a similar thread over a year and a half ago (in which she did not participate beyond the first post), stating that she had multiple “left-over” embryos, and now states she didn’t have any.

Just curious.

 

[hemberson]

First let me say as the OP, I am quite disgusted at some of these postings…the catfights and things that were said to each other. I understand everyone has strong opinions which is why people like me want to post to be held accountable and hear what others have to say. I am thrilled to know that some of you out there are so self righteous…

People post hear again for various reasons…I was expecting to hear various views and thoughts…my ultimate question was about doing something against the church’s teachings…feeling bad about that, but feeling guilty for being ok with that…Some of you need to sit back and hear yourselves speak (or write I should day)…the bickering between each other. For those who appear to be self righteous, what a hypocrite you are. I can imagine the posts I will receive but worry not, I am signing off this board and will find another forum that at leasts treats each other with respect…whether you support their question or not…at least respect the individual that is coming forward. Please voice your thoughts but must you start fighting with each other and take this post to another level?

As for Juno 24…WOW…you are something pulling up an email from over a year ago questioning me about that? My My My…I dont even need to dignify that with a response, but to put you in your place, at the time, I had someone very close to me that was going through a very very very similar experience with IVF at the exact same time. She was in my family… Our situations were extremely similar and we shared extremely similar thoughts…she wanted to post but didnt have the ability too, so I posted for her through me. As for why she only posted once, how dare you? There was a reason why she didnt have me post again and thats not for you to question. Please examine yourself and your finger pointing…you know when you point, there are 3 fingers pointing at you…you ought to be ashamed. So please be careful to not assume…you know what that makes you dont you?

Best wishes to you all and I do appreciate everyone taking time to respond…
Henrietta
UK

 

[gvogt4]

First let me say as the OP, I am quite disgusted at some of these postings…the catfights and things that were said to each other. I understand everyone has strong opinions which is why people like me want to post to be held accountable and hear what others have to say.

Best wishes to you all and I do appreciate everyone taking time to respond…
Henrietta
UK

Dear Henrietta,

Take a deep breath. Well, I know you said you were leaving, but I’m posting while I see you’re still looking around. Most (if not all) of those posting here are very serious about their (our) Faith. I think it’s safe to say that each has had a unique journey and has been influenced by many different factors. These types of (spirited) debate have been going on for 2000 years. The topic you posted involves what most would consider very serious (both the IVF and the proper formation of conscience). I would think that you will not find this topic any less heated in another forum.
I understand it can be discouraging for Christians to “take it to that level” but in a way, I’m glad (even when we disagree) that my fellow Catholics are so passionate about their beliefs. Much better than being luke warm. My only real concern is for those outside of the Faith that may not see it this way. I’d hate to think someone in search of the Truth was run off. <Perhaps we should think about these things, still be passionate and confrontational, without being nasty or personal.>

Regardless, you stated that you posted to be held accountable and get other opinions.
(1) We will all be held accountable, but not by CAF
(2) You made a decision to stand apart from the Catholic Church. The Church does not, nor will not condone the IVF. I would not have made the same choice, but I am not your judge, nor am I judging you.
(3) I understand you said you don’t feel guilty, but may I gently point out that you must be feeling some “urgings” otherwise if you are really interested in what anyone else thinks. Please continue to pray about this.
(4) Please also understand that the Church also says that we should not make these things public. (Not judging, just informing.) I
(5) f you do ask this question in another forum, might I suggest simply stating that you made a decision to stand apart from the Church on one of her teachings, and now you don’t feel guilty about it.
(6) However, the best remedy would be to have an open and honest private discussion with a good priest.

I sincerely pray that you will continue to seek God’s Will for you in proceeding (and that you follow that Will.)

 

[juno24]

As for Juno 24…WOW…you are something pulling up an email from over a year ago questioning me about that? My My My…I dont even need to dignify that with a response, but to put you in your place, at the time, I had someone very close to me that was going through a very very very similar experience with IVF at the exact same time. She was in my family… Our situations were extremely similar and we shared extremely similar thoughts…she wanted to post but didnt have the ability too, so I posted for her through me. As for why she only posted once, how dare you? There was a reason why she didnt have me post again and thats not for you to question. Please examine yourself and your finger pointing…you know when you point, there are 3 fingers pointing at you…you ought to be ashamed. So please be careful to not assume…you know what that makes you dont you?

Best wishes to you all and I do appreciate everyone taking time to respond…
Henrietta
UK

Call me an A** all you want. I look at people’s profiles to see where they are coming from and saw you had posted one other time on the same exact topic. I was curious why the complete discrepency in your stories. You lied, you got caught. Deal with it yourself.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Notice:

Thank you for all who have partiocipated. This thread is now closed.