Not going to Church=mortal sin?

[coolcatholicguy]

Last weekend my family went on vacation, but we found a Church. My mom, my grandma (grandpa deceased), and I went to Church there. My little brothers (ages 11 and 7) didn’t want to go, so we let them stay. My dad went golfing on Saturday and Sunday and said “The Lord will give me a free pass this weekend.”

Was it a mortal sin for my brothers or my dad not to go to Church?
Was it a sin of my grandma, mom, and I not to make them go to Church?

 

[1ke]

Was it a mortal sin for my brothers or my dad not to go to Church?

Yes. If your 7 year old brother has not yet received Reconciliation and First Holy Communion, he is technically not yet obligated to attend Mass. But, certainly should not be indulged on a techincality as such a young age.

Was it a sin of my grandma, mom, and I not to make them go to Church?

Your parents have the obligation to see that they attend Mass and that you and your brothers do. You are not responsible, as you are not in authority in the family.

You are not culpable for the sins of your parents. Your father is culpable for his own choice, and your mother and father are responsible for their laxness regarding your siblings.

 

[Musicadmirer]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2181
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

 

[coolcatholicguy]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2181
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

I don’t think my brothers know about that teaching, and I think my parents know that you are required to, but I don’t think they understand fully that missing ONE Sunday is a grave sin.

Also, it’s not like my mom completely neglected my brothers not going to Church, she just didn’t make a big fuss about it.

Was it a mortal sin for my mom or grandmother to not make my siblings go to Church?
Was it a mortal sin for my brothers to not go if they don’t understand the teaching about the obligation?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think you’ve had the answers.

To miss Mass for the reasons that your father did (wanting to golf and saying "the Lord will give me a pass) would be objective mortal sin (because it is grave matter, as noted in the Catechism teaching cited above) HOWEVER: If your father lacked full knowledge or free will, the three conditions necessary for mortal sin (grave matter, full knowledge and free will) would not be met; therefore it would not necessarily be a mortal sin.

If your 7 year old brother has not yet received first communion and first reconcilliation, same thing: IF he did not have full knowledge and SINCE he is so young that he could not go on his own, the conditions for mortal sin would not be met. Ditto for the 11 year old.

SINCE your mother and grandparents SHOULD HAVE known that this was a grave matter and had your brothers attend, they are culpable to a degree but because they apparently DID NOT know, the conditions for mortal sin are not met.

As adult Christians, parents and grandparents should not only be aware of the teachings of the Church, they should make every possible effort to obey those teachings and to instruct their children to obey the teachings as well. If they are not educating themselves and have amassed incorrect ideas, they are culpable in that the correct teachings are READILY AVAILABLE to any person.

However, YOU now have the knowledge. YOU can point them to the relevant catechism passage. YOU can talk to the priest (and have him ‘verify’ the teaching).

And from then on if your father and mother say, “Yeah I know the teaching but I’m not gonna do it” they WILL be in mortal sin. However, as your brothers are minors they will not be in mortal sin if their parents do not take them to Mass until they are old enough to go on their own.

Of course you are not asking the questions in order to judge your parents. We know that. You are doing this out of concern for ALL your family living their Catholic Christian lives to the full, with the total correctness that they should, which is praiseworthy. And you will still honor your parents as your parents even if and when they make terrible decisions. You can gently point out the correct decision but you may not treat them with anything other than the utmost respect, of course.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Yes. If your 7 year old brother has not yet received Reconciliation and First Holy Communion, he is technically not yet obligated to attend Mass. But, certainly should not be indulged on a techincality as such a young age.

Your parents have the obligation to see that they attend Mass and that you and your brothers do. You are not responsible, as you are not in authority in the family.

You are not culpable for the sins of your parents. Your father is culpable for his own choice, and your mother and father are responsible for their laxness regarding your siblings.

My son has had both first reconciliation and first communion, but I was told by his DRE he is under no obligation to attend mass and is not fully a Catholic until confirmation. Until then, he has no obligation. Is this incorrect?

 

[1ke]

My son has had both first reconciliation and first communion, but I was told by his DRE he is under no obligation to attend mass and is not fully a Catholic until confirmation. Until then, he has no obligation. Is this incorrect?

Yes, it is incorrect.

As I have stated before in previous threads, your DRE needs to be fired based on the fact that she is completely incompetent.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

My son has had both first reconciliation and first communion, but I was told by his DRE he is under no obligation to attend mass and is not fully a Catholic until confirmation. Until then, he has no obligation. Is this incorrect?

Yes, it is incorrect. Poor Lutheranteach–as if you didn’t have ENOUGH trouble trying to meet the obligations of your Catholic family, to have somebody give you incorrect teaching is awful.

Confirmation is a CONFIRMING of the graces received at Baptism and a completion BUT the child himself is fully a Catholic NOW.

In fact, in order to receive confirmation he should be in a state of grace. And how is he to be in a state of grace when he is missing Mass regularly (a mortal sin?)

I do not want to breach forum rules or to make you uncomfortable, but from previous posts on these and other subjects I have the terrible feeling that your DRE ( I am sure a most worthy person) has somehow managed to amass incorrect teaching which he/she (with the utmost sincerity) thinks are true. They are not.

Here is the relevant canon law citation regarding the obligation to attend Mass. You will see that it is binding on those over 7–that is, who normally at that age attain the ‘age of reason’ and who customarily receive First Communion and First Eucharist. Your DRE is wrong.

Although young children are welcome at Mass, the obligation to attend does not bind those under seven years old. The Church law that obligates Catholics to go to Mass is canon 1247:
On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass. Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs that hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.This law does not expressly state an age at which the faithful become obliged to follow it, but canon 11 tells us:
Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.Since canon 1247 does not expressly provide otherwise, it binds only those who have completed seven years of age and who also meet the other requirements mentioned in canon 11.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I feel terrible about this, Lutheranteach. I do not want to cause you or your family pain but it would be worse pain to have them receiving incorrect teachings as ‘truth’. And while I’m sure your DRE has a degree in religious education (and I of course do not), I am afraid that either she has expressed herself very badly and been misunderstood, or she has made an egregious error.

Your child, who has now received first communion and first reconciliation at the age of 7, is a full-fledged Catholic who has the responsibilities of all Catholics. One of those is to follow the precepts of the Church which include the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday unless there is a grave reason that he cannot do so. As you see in the citation I provided, this obligation binds those Catholics over the age of 7. It is not ‘optional’ until they become confirmed!!!

 

[Lutheranteach]

Well…I’m sure mass will go on without him, because he’s not going to be there consistently for a number of reasons (mostly baseball tournaments at the moment) and hasn’t been since school ended for the year. As for his DRE, there was no miscommunication on this issue. I made my position and thoughts on this crystal clear, and she fully understood them, repeated them back to me, and said there was no issue. So whether incompetent, or lying, who knows, but there was no misunderstanding what was said. She also makes it clear that in her opinion, our son is NOT Catholic.

I’ve never met a sweeter woman whom I’ve disliked more.

 

[tafan]

If people don’t understand why it is so serious to miss mass, they don’t understand what they are missing. This is a big deal.

 

[jmcrae]

My son has had both first reconciliation and first communion, but I was told by his DRE he is under no obligation to attend mass and is not fully a Catholic until confirmation. Until then, he has no obligation. Is this incorrect?

Yes, this is absolutely incorrect, although it is a common misunderstanding - I’ve had kids tell me that they didn’t want to be Confirmed because they didn’t want to be required to go to Mass - I just tell them, I have some bad news for you - if you are Catholic then you should have been coming to Mass since you were seven, if not earlier. ^0_o

Actually, every baptized Catholic who has reached the age of reason, regardless of what other Sacraments he or she may have received, is obliged to attend Mass on Sundays and on Holy Days of Obligation, barring a serious reason (illness in the family, etc.)

It’s also very common for kids to miss Mass in favour of sports - I have no idea what we do about that one.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well…I’m sure mass will go on without him, because he’s not going to be there consistently for a number of reasons (mostly baseball tournaments at the moment) and hasn’t been since school ended for the year. As for his DRE, there was no miscommunication on this issue. I made my position and thoughts on this crystal clear, and she fully understood them, repeated them back to me, and said there was no issue. So whether incompetent, or lying, who knows, but there was no misunderstanding what was said. She also makes it clear that in her opinion, our son is NOT Catholic.

I’ve never met a sweeter woman whom I’ve disliked more.

Well, you’re not alone. From what you have said I do not ‘like’ her (though I love her as a Christian) and I personally think that if she is telling you such obvious incorrect teachings and passing them off as truths (not to mention the HEINOUSLY WRONG VIEW she has of your son and his status as a Catholic) she should definitely be fired.

OTOH your wife (she is Catholic, yes?) should be insisting that your son go to Mass with her every week. If there are tournaments that interfere with every single Sunday Mass then by God the two of them should be going on SATURDAY. There is no excuse for any Catholic to miss Mass due to ‘sports’ or the idea that it is ‘optional’ only until confirmation or other CRAZINESS that some DRE has dreamed up. Your poor, poor family!

 

[jmcrae]

Well…I’m sure mass will go on without him, because he’s not going to be there consistently for a number of reasons (mostly baseball tournaments at the moment) and hasn’t been since school ended for the year.

Is there a Mass at another parish nearby at a time that would be more convenient for him to attend, say, later in the evening, or early in the morning?

 

[lizaanne]

Well…I’m sure mass will go on without him, because he’s not going to be there consistently for a number of reasons (mostly baseball tournaments at the moment) …

Really. Baseball tournaments are more important the state of your son’s eternal soul?

Wow.


You need to find a way to make this right. It is your responsibility to do so.

~Liza

 

[jmcrae]

As for his DRE, there was no miscommunication on this issue.

For what it’s worth, you can’t get a dispensation to miss Mass from a lay person - it has to be from the priest or the Bishop. So, even if she told you that your son isn’t required to attend Mass, it’s not her call to make - she had no authority to give your son permission to miss Mass - she could only have been giving her personal opinion on the matter (and probably was not thinking that you were taking her opinion as an official dispensation from the Church).

 

[1ke]

OTOH your wife (she is Catholic, yes?) should be insisting that your son go to Mass with her every week. If there are tournaments that interfere with every single Sunday Mass then by God the two of them should be going on SATURDAY. There is no excuse for any Catholic to miss Mass due to ‘sports’ or the idea that it is ‘optional’ only until confirmation or other CRAZINESS that some DRE has dreamed up. Your poor, poor family!

Wife is a self-proclaimd cafeteria Catholic who is married invalidly to Lutheranteach (lack of form) with no remorse and no intention of convalidating. Wife thinks the kid can be both Lutheran and Catholic, pick and choose, go or not go, same for herself… she goes to the Lutheran church and takes communion, etc.

In addition to stating that the kid doesn’t have to go to Mass the DRE has also stated it is OK for the kid to go to the Lutheran church, receive Lutheran FHC and Confirmation as well as Catholic FHC and Confirmation, and a variety of other completely untrue statements. This Catholic school hired Lutheranteach as its religion teacher instead of a Catholic. No offense to Lutheranteach, who I’m sure is a good teacher as far as teachers go, but this parish and associated school are beyond messed up. There aren’t even words.

We told Lutheranteach what the DRE told him was not true, and gave the appropriate canons in canon law, suggested taking it up the ladder at the diocese, etc, but he chose to ignore these posts and proceed with Catholic FHC confident that this did not bind his child to the Catholic Church in any way.

 

[catholicharlot]

Your father is the father of lies; you have continued to ban me for reasons that have not been in violation of your rules - see john Janning and you do not bann thoses for the same reasons you chose to ban me. This makes you a hypocrite and a liar and the Word of God says people such as yourself and the religious cult you belong to and defend will be in hell.

Unless you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus you will be damned and you are one of the greatest offenders and don’t fool yourself with your self- righteousness which I have known.

You cannot stop me from coming here you can only guess, which often times you are wrong. i have been accused of being a variety of people I never was.

But I will continue to be back as i have access to more IP addresses than you can ever imagine. You will have to block out an entire region of the US to stop me. So game on; and i am going to recruit more to do the same and you won’t be able to stop us for the light is greater than your darkness. REPENT before it is too late for your soul’s sake and believe me I am correct when i say you are heading for hell if you were to die to night.

Tim, Joe, John, Beth, Angel, Christin, Hank, Marty Etc etc I will eat your resources till you are so underfunded you will not exist and your satanic teachings will be destroyed – you have made it personal now!!

 

[lizaanne]

That is beyond sad. And quite pitiful.

I will pray for this family - especially the children who are going to be messed up beyond belief (pardon the pun) if someone doesn’t get off the fence and make some decisions.

~Liza

 

[Lutheranteach]

Wife is a self-proclaimd cafeteria Catholic who is married invalidly to Lutheranteach (lack of form) with no remorse and no intention of convalidating. Wife thinks the kid can be both Lutheran and Catholic, pick and choose, go or not go, same for herself… she goes to the Lutheran church and takes communion, etc.

In addition to stating that the kid doesn’t have to go to Mass the DRE has also stated it is OK for the kid to go to the Lutheran church, receive Lutheran FHC and Confirmation as well as Catholic FHC and Confirmation, and a variety of other completely untrue statements. This Catholic school hired Lutheranteach as its religion teacher instead of a Catholic. No offense to Lutheranteach, who I’m sure is a good teacher as far as teachers go, but this parish and associated school are beyond messed up. There aren’t even words.

We told Lutheranteach what the DRE told him was not true, and gave the appropriate canons in canon law, suggested taking it up the ladder at the diocese, etc, but he chose to ignore these posts and proceed with Catholic FHC confident that this did not bind his child to the Catholic Church in any way.

I’m it’s English teacher and the 8th grade homeroom teacher. So, I teach one group religion class…and as I’ve indicated many times I recuse myself from the classroom when I feel neither in agreement or competent to teach the religion subject matter. I have written letters to both my wife’s parish priest and the diocese regarding FHC and the entire situation including my concerns and the concerns repeated by many of you. To date, I have not received word one from either.