Not 'holy enough?'

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psalm139a

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I’ve been discerning a possible religious vocation for the past few months, and I have what I guess is a fairly common concern- the concern that I am not good enough. But for me, this is not a matter of humility. I’m sure most people around me would agree that I don’t exactly seem like the ideal candidate. For one thing, I can be pretty stubborn, and I don’t have that ‘holy aura’ that some people seem to have. I mean, I don’t go around saying, “God bless you” to everyone I meet, unlike my friend who is currently a seminarian.

So my real question is this: Is there some minimal level of holiness that is needed before pursuing a vocation? I go to daily Mass and regular confession, pray the rosary most days, spend time before the tabernacle regularly, and read ‘spiritual’ books (currently St. Faustina’s diary), but I still can’t honestly say that I love God above all else. But, more than anything, I WANT to love Him, and I desire a deep faith which I don’t yet have. So is it wrong for me to seriously consider joining an order, or should I give myself more time to build up my faith and fall in love with God? On the one hand, I see a religious vocation as a path that can help me to grow in my faith, but on the other hand, as I mentioned, I don’t know if I’ve met the minimum requirements to join an order.

I know it would be better to discuss these things with a spiritual director, but as it is, I don’t have one and don’t really know how to go about getting one.
 
I often think of St. Peter. Although I think my view of him has been tainted by the movie “Jesus of Nazareth,” he certainly wasn’t perfect. He went from denying that he even knew Christ to being crucified upside down because he said he wasn’t worthy of the same death as Jesus. If you truly do have a vocation, the Lord will give you all that you need.

Now I should probably go read the thread I made yesterday and take my own advice. :whistle:
 
No one is holy enough to be the bride of Christ. It’s a gift beyond imagining that for some reason, that I will never understand, He chooses to give to some women. If you desire with all of your heart to love the Lord above everything and ask Him to help you love Him more and more then He will grant that prayer request. I’ve often struggled with this as well and one of my friends said to me "Betsy, you don’t get to know why you. You just have to accept the gift and use it to bring others to Christ.
There is nothing anywhere that says “you have to be this holy to pursue a religious vocation.” So I would say pursue it! Start asking questions, email vocations directors of different orders, find blogs by women who are discerning and sisters, there are numerous sisters on facebook, look up websites, start finding out about it and if you can start talking to sisters in your area about it. One important thing to remember is that once you start looking into it doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen. I’ve heard of so many women who have been thinking about it but haven’t pursued it because they don’t want to make any commitments. The truth is that you don’t have to make a commitment to it until you join. Even if you are sure that it’s for you there is no shame in discerning to marriage. Sister Julie has a blog anunslife.org that has great info and a whole bunch of different links. I think that would be a great place to start. holyvocations.blogspot.com also has quite a list of links to orders websites.

You are in my thoughts, prayers and Masses.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
Are you holy enough to be married?

There is a perception out there that being called to a clerical or religious life is somehow “higher” that other callings. Not so. So I ask, are you holy enough to be married and raise children?

Of course, the answer is no; none of us are holy enough for anything. But I wouldn’t put a special pressure on yourself because you are discerning religious life. Go with your heart, test it out, and if you find you are called then to married life, please don’t think you were not holy enough for religious life!
 
By the sounds of it, you’re doing about as well as I was doing when I entered.
 
The response a wise confessor gave me when I asked him a similar question: “God does not called the qualified, He qualifies the called”. I truly understand your position, and I feel no holier now that when I first started discerning my own vocation. But, like you, I want to be holy, and I wish that I could say that I loved God above all things, including the talents He has lovingly given me, to love the Giver more than the gifts. I know, however, I’m not quite there yet, but with that bit of desire, and most especially with God’s help, I trust He can make it so.

To follow up even more with Betsy’s post, even after you’ve joined the novitiate, and even have gone through the postulancy, you can stop it there… you can stop until it is time to make the final vows. There is one woman I know who was in a convent for a little over a year, and eventually ended up not joining. However, she is grateful for her time in the convent, because she was given graces and many skills that have served her well in being a lay woman who has many, many responsibilities… gifts, that without, she feels she wouldn’t be able to do what she needs to do. So, even if you should live at a convent for awhile, and it doesn’t work out for you, it is not wasted time… God must have had you there for that time to learn, to grow, and to get further on the path to holiness.

Also, I heard this quote that might be useful… “If Church is a hospital for sinners, then a monastery must be the ICU”.
 
Thanks for all the responses and the encouragement. It really does help.
datingtrappists said:
Also, I heard this quote that might be useful… “If Church is a hospital for sinners, then a monastery must be the ICU”.
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Love this quote! :rotfl:

Just to add to what I said originally, I guess I just feel like I’d be so far behind every other new member… not that it’s a competition, but I worry that I’d be so far behind that I might just get rejected upfront. I mean, I’ve been a practicing Catholic all my life but never really had a deep relationship with God. I want that, but it’s still a struggle to get myself to fully commit…

And I’m scared because I was recently accepted to dental school, and if I give that up, go to discern and find out the religious life isn’t for me, then I won’t have anywhere to go… Can’t do much with a ‘pre-dentistry’ degree. I could reapply to dental school, or go to grad school, I guess, but who would write me a recommendation when I’ve been out of school for a few years? The nuns??

I know I need to trust God with this, because He has my best interests in mind, but it’s still so hard… and I haven’t even told my parents anything, because I know they will be very, very upset, and I can’t deal with their opposition when I’m still unsure about this.
 
psalm139a said:
I go to daily Mass and regular confession, pray the rosary most days, spend time before the tabernacle regularly, and read ‘spiritual’ books (currently St. Faustina’s diary), but I still can’t honestly say that I love God above all else.
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I did just about what you are doing before entering seminary. St. Faustina’s diary is a great book - God is love and merciful.
 
No one is “good enough” to become a priest; if being holy is a requirement to become a priest, then there would be no priests ever to be ordained, since no one could possibly attain that mark. However, those who were called were not called because they led holy lives, but because Christ chose them, and they responded to that call. One must think very hard and reflect when one receives this call; it is not a light one, and most often it would also mean leaving behind many things for His sake.
 
Hey, if God is calling you to the religious life, that’s good enough for Him. If your vocation is to be part of the religious life, when you join, your faith and love in God will expand. There is no such thing, I believe, in God’s eyes something or someone “not good enough”. He cares and loves us all equally. Good luck in your vocation!🙂
 
I’m also discerning and also don’t feel holy enough… one reason is that I have a pretty bad past. Not like many of my Catholic friends.

I was praying about this yesterday… and then thought of the story in the Gospels about the woman with the perfume jar. People said she’s a sinner so she isn’t good enough to even touch Christ. But He accepted her worship and even said she loves Him more because of all her failures. (“He who was forgiven much, loves much”). If you feel unworthy, broken, not good enough, not holy… love God despite of that, and remember “blessed are the poor in spirit”. Remember how He loves us… and how He accepts anyone with a contrite heart, and only turns away the proud. If you remember your failings…that’s humbling! 👍 the Saints all considered themselves the greatest sinners…they didn’t feel qualified but kept on serving God cause they wanted to see His Kingdom come, to see Him glorified in all things…

yesterday, after I prayed about all this, I went to the living room and was walking past my dad’s opened Bible… and for some reason, I was curious what page it was opened at and looked… and right where I looked, I saw that exact passage about the “sinful woman”! I was so surprised! lol 🙂

and I guess God REALLY wanted me to believe this point because today at Mass, Father’s homily was about the way we should look at our past failings

Just keep on doing what you’re doing, go to Mass, Adoration, read spiritual books, pray the Rosary, and get a spiritual director if you can

God can be glorified in YOUR particular life situation and right where you are. He makes all things beautiful, in His time. Maybe this whole experience is to help you learn humility. But remember that there’s nothing that God can’t transform, redeem, and make whole. And that everyone has their own individual, unrepeatable call from God…don’t compare yourself with others or how they’re living, or acting. Just try to love God with all your heart and dont be overly concerned about appearances.

God bless 🙂
 
One thing that I’ve been learning in my discernment is that the will and the nature will always be fighting each other no matter what. If you feel like you aren’t doing enough or don’t love God enough but your will is saying “yes Jesus I love you” then that’s so amazing and beautiful. I was just reading a few minutes ago in I Believe in Love that if you don’t feel close to God but trust Him anyway there is so many more graces because it is a pure act of will. Also I’ve learned that feelings don’t always matter. Sometimes it’s important to get past the feelings and hear what Jesus is speaking to your heart.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
psalm139a- First off Welcome to CAF. I’d like to share the following with you. I received this while I was on a weekend retreat at “The Sisters of the Presentation of Mary” I’ve also posted this on the Vocation on Feb.27/09/Fri. at 12:47 p.m.

“Excuses, Excuses”

Inevitably, somewhere along the line, people thinking about religious life come up with good reasons why they should not pursue and investigate this call to religious life. Fears set in, doubts set in, and there is always something that is holding them back.

Sometimes, the reasons one decides not to act on a religious vocation at the present time are good and certainly have to be considered. When these reasons surface, they need to be considered and sometimes may require that one’s personal plans be put to the side for the time being.

Yet, sometimes, they may be just “excuses.” Excuses that are “self” centered are something not God orientated. Excuses that flow from some fear I may have of responding to a call from God may be real but not worth considering. When do we know if our reasons for not considering a call from God are good reasons or just excuses.

Where can we get help? Well, a good spiritual director can help with this. Often time, we need to seek the guidance of others who may be better able to help us make this distinction. One important point to remember is that there is probably no “excuse” that has not been used before!

All the “excuses” we can think of probably were thought of and used before. God has heard them all! If you don’t believe me, check out scripture!

If you can identify with one of the popular excuses listed below; take a moment to investigate the Lord’s (name removed by moderator)ut to your concern (after all, God is the one calling). Although it is not David Letterman’s these can be seen as the Vocation Director’s “Top Ten List” of excuses given for not considering the possibility of being a religious. So, in descending order, the top ten listof excuses given for not entering religious life

#10 “I want to be happy.” Check out: Psalms 37:4; Matthew 5:1-2; John 10:10 and Mark 10:28-31

#9 “I’m afraid of being alone.” Check out: Exodus 3:4-22; Luke 1:28-31 and Matthew 28:20

#8 “I’m not smart enough.” Check out: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18 and Exodus 4:10-17

#7 “I am afraid of making a commitment.” Check out: Ruth 1:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 25:5-10

#6 “I want the good life.” Check out: Mark 10:17-31; John 10:10 and Matthew 13:44-46

#5 “I want to have a family.” Check out: Genesis 12:1-3; Matthew 12:46-50 and Mark 10:28-31

#4 “I’m not talented enough.” Check out: Luke 1:26-28

#3 “I’ve made mistakes; I’m a sinner.” Check out: John 21:15-23; Matthew 9:9-13 and Luke 7:36-50

#2 “I am afraid I will fail.” Check out: Exodus 14:10-31 and Luke 15.

And, the top excuse given for not considering the possibility of religious life is…

#1 “I am not holy enough.” Check out: Isaiah 6:1-9 and Luke 5:1-11

Although put in a humorous way, these “excuses” are real. They can be paralysing. They can make it impossible for us to go on with our life. They need to be reconciled. You can take comfort in the fact that they arise in the hearts and souls of everyone who considers a religious vocation You are not alone.

What do we do if we discover that they are not good reasons but just “excuses” for not considering religious life? Well, perhaps the prophets, disciples, and followers of Christ who had these same excuses can give us some direction. It is clear that all of them had to put their “self” aside and trust in God. Moses had to do it. Mary had to do it. All the apostles had to do it. God wants us to be happy in our lives. Happiness comes from trusting in God. Perhaps we need to do it.

ecclesia-ottawa.org/archi…x?DetailID=171
 
the purpose of embracing the vocation to which God is calling you is to become holy, to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in your sanctification through your work in life, so obviously already being holy is not a pre-requisite for following a vocation.
 
This past summer, I stayed at a convent for a week. One day for Mass, though I cannot remember the exact reading, there was a line that quoted God: “Come into my presence and be made holy”. The priest pointed out that that line, in fact did not say be holy and then come into my presence, but rather that by being in the presence of God, one is made holy, for holiness only comes from God, and the graces He pours out for us.

This is just a very rough idea of that homily, and I wish that I had it taped or something, but I hope I’ve been able to express enough of the idea for you.
 
puzzleannie said:
the purpose of embracing the vocation to which God is calling you is to become holy, to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in your sanctification through your work in life, so obviously already being holy is not a pre-requisite for following a vocation.
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This is something I’ve actually thought about. I know that our vocation is meant to be the path by which we will seek to become holy- same for both married people and religious. But I guess I have just always had this deeply ingrained belief (which I’m trying to overcome) that religious life is only for people who are already super-holy. I’m guessing I’m not the only one, because I keep imagining the looks on people’s faces when I tell them that I think God is calling me to be a sister or a nun- and the looks of utter shock. I guess a lot of people around me see religious life as a destination rather than as a path, and their attitudes have rubbed off on me. But I’m hoping to be able to change that.

Here’s a quote I once saw on a Dominican website that seems relevant:

"He is not calling you because you deserve to be called or because you want to be called, but because he sees what you can become if you give yourself to him completely and entirely. All the great prophets made excuses as to why they were not worthy. And God’s angel, sent to call, accepted the truth of their statements. But he still persisted in calling!

So true…

I want to trust God completely, but I know deep down that I don’t. I’m still terrified, even when I think that yes, he does want only what’s best for me, and he knows better than anyone what that is. I think (and hope) it will just take time… though I’m guessing it will always be a struggle.
 
datingtrappists said:
This past summer, I stayed at a convent for a week. One day for Mass, though I cannot remember the exact reading, there was a line that quoted God: “Come into my presence and be made holy”. The priest pointed out that that line, in fact did not say be holy and then come into my presence, but rather that by being in the presence of God, one is made holy, for holiness only comes from God, and the graces He pours out for us.

This is just a very rough idea of that homily, and I wish that I had it taped or something, but I hope I’ve been able to express enough of the idea for you.
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Thanks for sharing these words. So true.

I have noticed that as I’ve been trying to discern my vocation, I’ve started seeing things in completely different ways, so that they take on a new significance. Before, I wouldn’t have really related that priest’s quote to religious life, but now it seems entirely relevant.

Something in particular that I keep thinking about is during the pentitential rite at Mass, when the priest says, “He came to call sinners; Christ have mercy.” I mean, the words of the penitential rite aren’t the same at every Mass, but I have heard this exact phrase probably thousands of time. But once I started trying to discern my vocation, it took on a whole new meaning and for the first time actually seemed relevant to… me! He came to call me! I guess before I always thought it basically referred to Jesus calling tax collectors, prostitutes, etc. to follow him. I never applied it to myself, and I definitely never applied it to a religious vocation. But, again, now it seems entirely relevant.

And sometimes I wonder if my hypersensitivity to looking for vocational significance (for lack of a better term) in pretty much anything religiously related is itself a sign of a vocation. That is, is the search for signs a sign of a vocation? I mean, probably not by itself, but coupled with other, more significant signs like a very strong desire for it?

Also, I just want to take the time to say a big THANK YOU to everyone for your support and prayers. 🙂
 
psalm139a said:
Here’s a quote I once saw on a Dominican website that seems relevant:

"He is not calling you because you deserve to be called or because you want to be called, but because he sees what you can become if you give yourself to him completely and entirely. All the great prophets made excuses as to why they were not worthy. And God’s angel, sent to call, accepted the truth of their statements. But he still persisted in calling!

So true…

I want to trust God completely, but I know deep down that I don’t. I’m still terrified, even when I think that yes, he does want only what’s best for me, and he knows better than anyone what that is. I think (and hope) it will just take time… though I’m guessing it will always be a struggle.
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Wow! I needed that quote! Can I ask what website that is from? I can’t even tell you how often I’ve wondered “why me?”
In response to being afraid, it will probably always be a struggle. One thing that has kept coming up in my life since retreat is that your nature not a part of your will. Your will can be completely united to God’s will and more often then not your feelings will be rebelling against what ever His will is. Sister Mary Dominic told me on retreat that Saint Thomas said “Sometimes it takes a really long time for the emotions (the nature ) to catch up with the head (the will)” A few days after that I was reading I Believe in Love by Father d’Elbee which is based on the teachings of Saint Therese the Little Flower and there was a whole two pages on how the nature and the will are almost always at odds with each other. The important thing is to make sure that you make an act of the will to do what ever the Lord’s will is in your life and not be ruled by your emotions. It’s very hard to be joyful and peaceful in the midst of all the emotions but Father d’Elbee said that that joy and peace means so much more to the Lord because it’s only and act of will. He also said that if you are un-peaceful you need to offer with peace to the Lord your un-peacefulness. If you are upset you need to offer with joy to the Lord your sadness. Etc. I think you get the idea. It’s so much easier said then done but if you ask Him to help you He will and it will be easier. With God anything is possible.
Don’t forget to “thank God ahead of time” for what ever He is calling you to.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
GilChrist77 said:
Wow! I needed that quote! Can I ask what website that is from? I can’t even tell you how often I’ve wondered “why me?”
In response to being afraid, it will probably always be a struggle. One thing that has kept coming up in my life since retreat is that your nature not a part of your will. Your will can be completely united to God’s will and more often then not your feelings will be rebelling against what ever His will is. Sister Mary Dominic told me on retreat that Saint Thomas said “Sometimes it takes a really long time for the emotions (the nature ) to catch up with the head (the will)” A few days after that I was reading I Believe in Love by Father d’Elbee which is based on the teachings of Saint Therese the Little Flower and there was a whole two pages on how the nature and the will are almost always at odds with each other. The important thing is to make sure that you make an act of the will to do what ever the Lord’s will is in your life and not be ruled by your emotions. It’s very hard to be joyful and peaceful in the midst of all the emotions but Father d’Elbee said that that joy and peace means so much more to the Lord because it’s only and act of will. He also said that if you are un-peaceful you need to offer with peace to the Lord your un-peacefulness. If you are upset you need to offer with joy to the Lord your sadness. Etc. I think you get the idea. It’s so much easier said then done but if you ask Him to help you He will and it will be easier. With God anything is possible.
Don’t forget to “thank God ahead of time” for what ever He is calling you to.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
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Here’s the website:
dominicans-tt.org/signsvoc.htm

And I’ll be sure to check out that book you mention. It sounds like it describes a lot of what I’m going through, too. It always amazes me that when I think I’m alone, all I have to do is log onto these forums or read vocation stories on various websites, and I see that countless people have struggled with the exact same issues, have had the same thoughts and fears, etc. It just makes it a little easier. 🙂
 
psalm139a said:
I’ve been discerning a possible religious vocation for the past few months, and I have what I guess is a fairly common concern- the concern that I am not good enough. But for me, this is not a matter of humility. I’m sure most people around me would agree that I don’t exactly seem like the ideal candidate. For one thing, I can be pretty stubborn, and I don’t have that ‘holy aura’ that some people seem to have. I mean, I don’t go around saying, “God bless you” to everyone I meet, unlike my friend who is currently a seminarian.

So my real question is this: Is there some minimal level of holiness that is needed before pursuing a vocation? I go to daily Mass and regular confession, pray the rosary most days, spend time before the tabernacle regularly, and read ‘spiritual’ books (currently St. Faustina’s diary), but I still can’t honestly say that I love God above all else. But, more than anything, I WANT to love Him, and I desire a deep faith which I don’t yet have. So is it wrong for me to seriously consider joining an order, or should I give myself more time to build up my faith and fall in love with God? On the one hand, I see a religious vocation as a path that can help me to grow in my faith, but on the other hand, as I mentioned, I don’t know if I’ve met the minimum requirements to join an order.

I know it would be better to discuss these things with a spiritual director, but as it is, I don’t have one and don’t really know how to go about getting one.
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You didn’t mention if you were male or female. So I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume your a man. I would start with talking with your parish priest who could recommend a good seminary. Don’t worry about your stubborness. God will use that to his advantage. Father Corapi doesn’t have a holy aura, but boy is he powerful. Look at who Jesus picked for his circle. A tax collector, a zealot, a denier, a backstabber, and the rest all except for one were cowards that abandoned him. If you can conquer the sinful nature of the flesh, that’s more than half the battle. We need more priests. The seminary will tell you if you got what it takes.
 
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