Not In the Bible Purgatory

[fnr]

Of course you can use this information! No permission necessary. Those are God’s words, not mine!

Here’s the Wikipedia entry on “epiousios” : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiousios

You will routinely see Protestant sites that translate it as “for the morrow,” but the literal meaning supports the Catholic perspective:
“epi” – across/beyond/on top of
“ousia” – substance/essence (as in homoousia, the words we translate as “consubstantial” in the Creed" from “homo” = same and “ousia” = substance)

Here’s another Catholic article on the topic:
catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=50420

I have seen the following reference to a Scott Hahn work on the topic:
Hahn, Scott, Understanding “Our Father”: Biblical Reflections on the Lord’s Prayer, (Steubenville, OH: Emmaus Road Publishing, 2002), p.46.

Lastly, an online Greek Bible can be found here: greekbible.com/

 

[Kmon23]

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2837 “Daily” (epiousios) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. Taken in a temporal sense, this word is a pedagogical repetition of “this day,”128 to confirm us in trust “without reservation.” Taken in the qualitative sense, it signifies what is necessary for life, and more broadly every good thing sufficient for subsistence.129 Taken literally (epi-ousios: “super-essential”), it refers directly to the Bread of Life, the Body of Christ, the “medicine of immortality,” without which we have no life within us.130 Finally in this connection, its heavenly meaning is evident: “this day” is the Day of the Lord, the day of the feast of the kingdom, anticipated in the Eucharist that is already the foretaste of the kingdom to come. For this reason it is fitting for the Eucharistic liturgy to be celebrated each day. (2659, 2633, 1405, 1166, 1389)

So is it super-essential or trans/above-substance?
Is the literal meaning substance from above, denoting the necessity of the bread, super-essential?

 

[Tom_Baum]

Well people with venial sins do die, so it clearly doesn’t mean death literally. I think it means spiritual death and going to Hell. Your keys and stuff doesn’t really add anything. Spiritual death still means spiritual death, and it clearly can’t mean physical death.

I did not say that spiritual death and physical death are the same.

What I said was that hell and spiritual death are NOT the same.

Hell is hell and spiritual death is spiritual death, just because some think of them as one and the same does not mean that they are.

And if one of them would be sending someone to the other one, it would be hell sending one to spiritual death rather than spiritual death sending one to hell.

And I thank God that God accomplished something on Calvary that many do not believe/think that God was/is capable of accomplishing and sad to say that some seem to hope that God is incapable of accomplishing.

Spiritual death is separation from God, hell could be looked at as seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God and since God Is a Being of Love, some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress.

Hell is not separation from God, spiritual death is.

Everyone’s hell is custom-built by its occupant.

Jesus, by what He accomplished on the cross, went to “everyone’s custom-built hell”, and by doing this He “won” the “keys” to “everyone’s hell” and also the “keys” to death, most definitely, spiritual death and maybe, maybe not, physical death, who knows, could be that God already had those but let us give the others away to satan way back when.

 

[randomusername]

I did not say that spiritual death and physical death are the same.

What I said was that hell and spiritual death are NOT the same.

Hell is hell and spiritual death is spiritual death, just because some think of them as one and the same does not mean that they are.

And if one of them would be sending someone to the other one, it would be hell sending one to spiritual death rather than spiritual death sending one to hell.

And I thank God that God accomplished something on Calvary that many do not believe/think that God was/is capable of accomplishing and sad to say that some seem to hope that God is incapable of accomplishing.

Spiritual death is separation from God, hell could be looked at as seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God and since God Is a Being of Love, some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress.

Hell is not separation from God, spiritual death is.

Everyone’s hell is custom-built by its occupant.

Jesus, by what He accomplished on the cross, went to “everyone’s custom-built hell”, and by doing this He “won” the “keys” to “everyone’s hell” and also the “keys” to death, most definitely, spiritual death and maybe, maybe not, physical death, who knows, could be that God already had those but let us give the others away to satan way back when.

What IS spiritual death then? If spiritual death is not Hell then what else could it mean? You definitely can’t be spiritually dead in Heaven, and being spiritually dead on Earth makes little sense either.

“Spiritual death is separation from God, hell could be looked at as seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God and since God Is a Being of Love, some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress.”
This sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. “Hell could be looked at as seeing yourself through the eyes of God… some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love”. That makes no grammatical sense at all and you can’t expect anyone to understand you if you ramble like that.

And what do you mean Hell isn’t separation from God but spiritual death is? How can you be more separated from God than you are in Hell? There is no further separation.

 

[Tom_Baum]

What IS spiritual death then? If spiritual death is not Hell then what else could it mean? You definitely can’t be spiritually dead in Heaven, and being spiritually dead on Earth makes little sense either.

Spiritual death is past hell, as in beyond hell.

“Spiritual death is separation from God, hell could be looked at as seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God and since God Is a Being of Love, some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress.”
This sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. “Hell could be looked at as seeing yourself through the eyes of God… some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love”. That makes no grammatical sense at all and you can’t expect anyone to understand you if you ramble like that.

You may have already guessed that I am not here to win any composition awards, all I can say is to look at what it says and if you want, think about what it says, your choice.

As far as “some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress”, the burning fire of hell is God’s “Consuming Fire of Love” burning someone rather than caressing them which is, at least part of, what heaven is.

That is kinda what I mean by “seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God”, does this help any?

And what do you mean Hell isn’t separation from God but spiritual death is? How can you be more separated from God than you are in Hell? There is no further separation.

Ever heard of God’s Omnipresent’s?

Who knows maybe even “spiritual death” is not separation from God, it just seems that way.

Thank you for helping me think of this, not only does God work in mysterious ways but at least one of those mysterious ways is just how God works thru others, sometimes unbeknownst to them.

 

[randomusername]

Spiritual death is past hell, as in beyond hell.

You may have already guessed that I am not here to win any composition awards, all I can say is to look at what it says and if you want, think about what it says, your choice.

As far as “some refer to God as a Consuming Fire of Love, this “Consuming Fire of Love” can either burn or caress”, the burning fire of hell is God’s “Consuming Fire of Love” burning someone rather than caressing them which is, at least part of, what heaven is.

That is kinda what I mean by “seeing yourself thru the Eyes of God”, does this help any?

Ever heard of God’s Omnipresent’s?

Who knows maybe even “spiritual death” is not separation from God, it just seems that way.

Thank you for helping me think of this, not only does God work in mysterious ways but at least one of those mysterious ways is just how God works thru others, sometimes unbeknownst to them.

Spiritual death is beyond Hell? Would you mind me asking your source for that?

 

[Tom_Baum]

Spiritual death is beyond Hell? Would you mind me asking your source for that?

I would say that my “source” would be God since, as far as I know, it was from God that I experienced hell and spiritual death.

There is no one else who these “experiences” could have come from.

Of course, I did do quite a bit of “pondering” on these and other experiences to be able to put any kind of words together to describe different things, one of which is to say that “spiritual death is beyond hell”.

Another thing was to “know” that what I was taught in second grade that “God is Love” is quite literal after meeting, Who is referred to as God the Father and Who Jesus asked us to think of as Dad.

It was interesting and very thoughtful of God to have gotten me to the VA hospital at Perry Point after battling satan one on one for 24 plus hrs, except for those times when it got too intense and Someone or something stepped in to give me a break or whatever; who knows I don’t, and then experiencing hell and spiritual death and then having a place to rest because I, most definitely, needed a rest.

God chooses who God chooses and for whatever reason God chooses and to be chosen means only that one is chosen, it doesn’t even come close to meaning anything like someone is better because they are chosen, all it means is that they are chosen.

The Chosen People are the Chosen People only because God chose them and God not only chose them but God formed them since they did not exist before God chose them, being the Chosen People does NOT mean that they are better or anything of the kind.

 

[randomusername]

I would say that my “source” would be God since, as far as I know, it was from God that I experienced hell and spiritual death.

There is no one else who these “experiences” could have come from.

Of course, I did do quite a bit of “pondering” on these and other experiences to be able to put any kind of words together to describe different things, one of which is to say that “spiritual death is beyond hell”.

Another thing was to “know” that what I was taught in second grade that “God is Love” is quite literal after meeting, Who is referred to as God the Father and Who Jesus asked us to think of as Dad.

It was interesting and very thoughtful of God to have gotten me to the VA hospital at Perry Point after battling satan one on one for 24 plus hrs, except for those times when it got too intense and Someone or something stepped in to give me a break or whatever; who knows I don’t, and then experiencing hell and spiritual death and then having a place to rest because I, most definitely, needed a rest.

God chooses who God chooses and for whatever reason God chooses and to be chosen means only that one is chosen, it doesn’t even come close to meaning anything like someone is better because they are chosen, all it means is that they are chosen.

The Chosen People are the Chosen People only because God chose them and God not only chose them but God formed them since they did not exist before God chose them, being the Chosen People does NOT mean that they are better or anything of the kind.

The starting portion of that post was just you saying that you have no sources and then you went onto things completely off the subject. So basically, you were saying that me and others were wrong about what spiritual death means when you have no Church teaching or verse from the Bible or anything to back it up.

Therefore, unless you can back yourself up, my interpretation seems just as valid as yours.

 

[Tom_Baum]

The starting portion of that post was just you saying that you have no sources and then you went onto things completely off the subject. So basically, you were saying that me and others were wrong about what spiritual death means when you have no Church teaching or verse from the Bible or anything to back it up.

Therefore, unless you can back yourself up, my interpretation seems just as valid as yours.

I don’t back myself up, either God will or nobody will.

 

[randomusername]

I don’t back myself up, either God will or nobody will.

So let me get this straight. You said I was wrong about spiritual death when you refuse to prove yourself at all?

 

[Tom_Baum]

So let me get this straight. You said I was wrong about spiritual death when you refuse to prove yourself at all?

Maybe you misunderstood me, I know that I can’t prove what I said and that is what I was trying to say.

Either God will prove what I said or God won’t.

It is my opinion that spiritual death is beyond hell, from what I have experienced.

One of the differences between heaven and hell is that the “Consuming Fire of Love” either caresses you or burns you.

This “Consuming Fire of Love” Is God.