Not invincibly ignorant

[uglygal]

If a person knows what the catholic faith is but does not believe it to be true … are they going to hell?

In other words, such a person is not invincibly ignorant of what the church teaches because they know its dogma intellectually, but they just do not believe it to be the truth about God [kind of like catholics who ‘know’ what islam or buddhism is but do not believe it to be the truth] … are they going to hell?

Thankyou in advance for any answers

 

[Newbie2]

If a person knows what the catholic faith is but does not believe it to be true … are they going to hell?

In other words, such a person is not invincibly ignorant of what the church teaches because they know its dogma intellectually, but they just do not believe it to be the truth about God [kind of like catholics who ‘know’ what islam or buddhism is but do not believe it to be the truth] … are they going to hell?

Thankyou in advance for any answers

I think that when we consider the term “invincibly ignorant”, we must take into consideration more than intellectual understanding of Church precepts. There is an emotional and perhaps psycological component to “invincible ignorance” as well, methinks.

For example, the young kids in the Westboro Baptist Church cult in Kansas. They are no doubt indoctrinated daily into the theological tripe that “Rev.” Phelps puts forth. When they get to be to the age where they are capable of understanding what the RCC teaches, are they likely to convert? Probably not, although we should not second guess the intentions of the Almighty.

But for these children, they’d have to overcome not only intellectually assenting to the RCCs teachings, but years and years of indoctrination with things like “JPII is burning in hell”, etc, etc.

Look at the reason that many people have for converting…they don’t want to upset a family member, perhaps because they would be the first Catholic in a line of Protestants going back to great-great-great-great Grandpa and Grandma. What is more important than their own personal salvation? Nothing. Yet the emotional baggage they may carry (guilt for letting down the relatives) may keep them from making the leap.

 

[pamnbam]

I think it depends on the extent that they fully “know” Church teaching. There a lot of Catholics who fall away from the Church because they don’t agree or don’t believe in some of the Church’s teachings. Many of these Catholics weren’t properly catechized in the first place, so can they be at fault for not agreeing with something they don’t really understand? I think this could suffice as invincible ignorance. They merely need to be taught the whys and hows about things they don’t understand.

If a Catholic knows and understands particular Church teachings and then rejects them, I can’t say that would be invincible ignorance.

Just an aside, many Catholics don’t fully understand some facets of the faith. But there are some who accept God’s grace, put their faith in Him, and believe anyway. I think that’s true faith.

 

[diggerdomer]

If a person knows what the catholic faith is but does not believe it to be true … are they going to hell?

We don’t know. It’s possible but not necessary.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

If a person knows what the catholic faith is but does not believe it to be true … are they going to hell?

In other words, such a person is not invincibly ignorant of what the church teaches because they know its dogma intellectually, but they just do not believe it to be the truth about God [kind of like catholics who ‘know’ what islam or buddhism is but do not believe it to be the truth] … are they going to hell?

Thankyou in advance for any answers

The more you know, the more responsibility you carry. God gives everyone sufficient opportunity, some He gives more than others, thus it isn’t good to push your chances. If a group (eg Catholicism) is openly calling itself the One and Only Truth, then you have an obligation to look into it.

Objectively speaking, if you know the truth and dont follow it, you will not be saved (ie will go to hell), this we know as Dogma (the highest level of truth). Subjectively speaking, only God knows your heart and judges if you willfully rejected Him, so we cannot judge your soul.

 

[gcnuss]

T If a group (eg Catholicism) is openly calling itself the One and Only Truth, then you have an obligation to look into it.

There are many groups that call themselves the “one and only truth.” Are we obliged to look into each one?

 

[thistle]

I think it depends on the extent that they fully “know” Church teaching. There a lot of Catholics who fall away from the Church because they don’t agree or don’t believe in some of the Church’s teachings. Many of these Catholics weren’t properly catechized in the first place, so can they be at fault for not agreeing with something they don’t really understand? I think this could suffice as invincible ignorance. They merely need to be taught the whys and hows about things they don’t understand.

If a Catholic knows and understands particular Church teachings and then rejects them, I can’t say that would be invincible ignorance.

Just an aside, many Catholics don’t fully understand some facets of the faith. But there are some who accept God’s grace, put their faith in Him, and believe anyway. I think that’s true faith.

Invincible ignorance is ignorance of Christ and his Gospel. Obviously that means anyone who has heard of Christ and his Gospel cannot be said to be invincibly ignorant.
In other words protestants are not invincibly ignorant.

Catholics who do not know or understand all the Church teachings are not invincibly ignorant. They are innocently ignorant which is different.

Catholics who stubbornly reject one or more Church teachings are heretics.

 

[Newbie2]

There are many groups that call themselves the “one and only truth.” Are we obliged to look into each one?

Good question/response.

I suppose if one has a good foundation in Christianity, it’s easier to discern which “groups” are in sync with Christian teachings and which are not. Of course, on the other hand, that begs the question of invincible ignorance in terms of what one has been taught as a “good foundation”.

Or…even considering non-Christian “groups”…it would seem that some, possibly most of them make the “one and only truth” claim as well.

In itself, the claim of teaching the “one and only truth” is a weak way of assessing which “groups” to look into as far as seeking the truth, IMHO.

 

[vz71]

There would have to be some ‘buy in’ to this.

I know of one individual that was raised in a very anti-catholic atmosphere.
Not just non-catholic, but an active hatred for the catholic church was instilled from early childhood.

As they learn more and more, they understand well that the Catholic Church is reasoned and makes sense. But there is an ongoing sense the individual has that something is wrong somewhere that they have not seen yet.
And for that, they cannot join the church.

Are they invincibly ignorant?

Well certainly bookwise they seem to know more then many Catholics I have known.
But they remain convinced of ‘something sinister’ that they simply have not found yet.

They may well learn nearly all of the book knowledge there is, but without the hand of God helping out, they will always be convinced of something they have not seen yet that negates it all.

I have always considered this situation to be the very definition of ‘invincibly ignorant’.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

There are many groups that call themselves the “one and only truth.” Are we obliged to look into each one?

I would say yes. However, I don’t think you would be required to read a catechism worth of information for each group. I was mostly talking about Christendom, and in that there are not many groups that call themselves the One True Church. Such a claim is virtually precluded for Protestantism.