Not just another CITH Thread...

[paperwight]

There are variations, of course. I didn’t say they did it intentionally but it certainly doesn’t look like it’s the most respectful way either. My godfather taught me when someone offers you anything or pays you, wait till he actually holds it for you to take and then let him give it to you. Good advice.

Sorry, you are still not getting through to me, I’m afraid.

Do they reach out and take the Host from the minister’s hand or not?

 

[ProVobis]

Sorry, you are still not getting through to me, I’m afraid.

Sorry here, too.

 

[paperwight]

Sorry here, too.

And the answer to the question ‘Do they reach out and take the Host from the minister’s hand or not’ is?

A ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ would suffice.

 

[ProVobis]

And the answer to the question ‘Do they reach out and take the Host from the minister’s hand or not’ is?

I have answered that question already. How many more times do you need to ask? Meet St. Ignore.

 

[Frosty]

I have answered that question already. How many more times do you need to ask? Meet St. Ignore.

Actually you have’t answered the question. This isn’t the first time that you have made the statement that people reach out and “grab” the Host and as yet you still pussyfoot around what you mean by it. It seems pretty simple to me. Are you saying that people do not make a throne of their hands to receive the host but instead reach out with one hand and take the Host literally from the either the priests’ or whoever’s hand? I’d like to know the answer too.

 

[Ockham]

CITH in the hand is not a novelty. It’s part of Tradition.

Source? For how many years has it been part of tradition? Are you familiar with the Dutch bishops in the 1960s?

A discipline the Church is authorized to impose or relax as she sees fit. Same with the mode of receiving communion.

How’s your Cardinal Bernardin research coming along?

The Mass IS a communal meal (albeit, only symbolically as the practice of celebrating a real meal died away in the early centuries of the Church)… It’s also a sacrifice. It is so many things.

It certainly became many things after the modernists got ahold of the Novus Ordo and used the ‘spirit of V2’ to impose a phethora of novelties and alterations. How’s that working out for us?

Could you please bring some facts and sources to this discussion rather than just posting your opinions?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

ProVobis has to right to not answer something he has already explained in length on this thread…so chill out. If you want clarification on what was said, then read through the thread. Furthermore, to me, the real shame is that this discussion shouldn’t even be taking place…if Communion on the Tongue kneeling was all that was allowed (which is still the norm), then this discussion wouldn’t even be taking place…CITH opens a floodgate of possibilities for abuses and sacriligeous things to be done to The Host.

Actually you have’t answered the question. This isn’t the first time that you have made the statement that people reach out and “grab” the Host and as yet you still pussyfoot around what you mean by it. It seems pretty simple to me. Are you saying that people do not make a throne of their hands to receive the host but instead reach out with one hand and take the Host literally from the either the priests’ or whoever’s hand? I’d like to know the answer too.

 

[Frosty]

ProVobis has to right to not answer something he has already explained in length on this thread…so chill out. If you want clarification on what was said, then read through the thread. Furthermore, to me, the real shame is that this discussion shouldn’t even be taking place…if Communion on the Tongue kneeling was all that was allowed (which is still the norm), then this discussion wouldn’t even be taking place…CITH opens a floodgate of possibilities for abuses and sacriligeous things to be done to The Host.

I have read this entire thread [along with countless others just like it]. If someone makes certain claims it is well within my or anyone elses’ rright to ask them to explain exactly what they mean. Perhaps you would be so kind as to link to the post where PV has made his detailed explanation? I will admit that reading many of these posts leaves me somewhat cross-eyed at times and I may have missed it. I really would like to read it.

 

[paperwight]

I have read this entire thread [along with countless others just like it]. If someone makes certain claims it is well within my or anyone elses’ rright to ask them to explain exactly what they mean. Perhaps you would be so kind as to link to the post where PV has made his detailed explanation? I will admit that reading many of these posts leaves me somewhat cross-eyed at times and I may have missed it. I really would like to read it.

Me, too. I am totally mystified as to which post contains the lengthy explanation by PV of what he means by grabbing the Host.

I think he probably let his tongue/typing finger run away with him and said more than could be justified in terms of strict truth.

Otherwise, why this reluctance to say plainly either, ‘Yes, I did mean that people take the Host out of the minister’s hand’ or ‘No, they don’t’?

 

[ProVobis]

Are you saying that people do not make a throne of their hands to receive the host

Show me where I said this? Or do you just enjoy beating up on the messenger? I don’t receive in the hands but if I did I certainly wouldn’t do the way I see some of the others do it.

 

[ProVobis]

CITH opens a floodgate of possibilities for abuses and sacriligeous things to be done to The Host.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Hee hee.

It’s nice to see the discussion still goes on…

 

[Frosty]

Show me where I said this? Or do you just enjoy beating up on the messenger? I don’t receive in the hands but if I did I certainly wouldn’t do the way I see some of the others do it.

Same old tactic eh? Just quote part of the sentence and distort the meaning. Why didn’t you quote my entire question which is just what it was,a question] and then give a plain and simple answer? It really isn’t that difficult to do. Of course if you really do not want to, or can’t for some strange reason, answer the question then you have no business throwing your claim about.

 

[Vince1022]

I’d say re-introducing it, in defiance of custom and Tradition, after, what, 1500+ years(?), counts as a novelty. Especially when there is no spiritual reason for doing it that I can see.

The real question is; Why drop COTT, kneeling, from a priest, for it?

All the changes to the Mass make sense if you want to emphasise the communal meal aspect. AFAIK, it used to be called, primarily, ‘The Holy Sacrifice Of The Mass’. Now it’s ‘The Lord’s Supper’ or ‘The Liturgy Of The Eucharist’. Altogether more genial.

COTT, kneeling, makes no sense at a meal. CITH, standing, from a laywoman, does.

Then people complain that Masses are more casual.** Well, that’s because everything occuring at them is cueing the participants that it’s a casual affair:** Edited text, versus populum, unvested laypeople involved, lightweight sermons, stylized vestments, folksy hymns etc. CITH is just part of the package.

The usual rejoinder is: “We must cathecize people more”. Well, you could do that in and by the type of Mass you say. Learn by doing.

Well, the liturgical reforms of Vatican II also re-introduced the Prayer of the Faithful (aka General Intercessions) to the Mass, which was eliminated by Pope Gregory the Great around 600 A.D.

Is the Prayer of the Faithful, then, a defiance of custom and Tradition?

 

[Vince1022]

I

The real question is; Why drop COTT, kneeling, from a priest, for it?

To my knowledge, this was not dropped. People can still receive communion on the tongue. And no one can be refused communion while kneeling. Can you clarify?

 

[Vince1022]

I

Then people complain that Masses are more casual.** **

If Masses are much more casual, that’s predominantly a sign of the people there, not the rubrics. I think that issue refers to people, not the liturgical texts.

 

[Vince1022]

Source? For how many years has it been part of tradition? Are you familiar with the Dutch bishops in the 1960s?{/QUOTE]

The New Testament and the entire Christian tradition. Yes, I’m familiar.
Ockham;6941452:

How’s your Cardinal Bernardin research coming along?

Fine, thanks. Yours?

It certainly became many things after the modernists got ahold of the Novus Ordo and used the ‘spirit of V2’ to impose a phethora of novelties and alterations. How’s that working out for us?

Could you please bring some facts and sources to this discussion rather than just posting your opinions?

I’d ask the same of you. What facts and sources are you specifically interested in?

 

[Canto]

The New Testament and the entire Christian tradition.

We can not say with certanty that the NT has Holy Communion in the hand.

In the Eastern Rites and Orthodox churches, do they recieve in the hand or mouth?

Why re-introduce COTH if your ordinary Joe in the pew didn’t seem to have a problem with the practice of COTT? What benefits are there?

For those more up on history than I am, how widespread was COTH in the early Church? Was it everywhere? How long till some places started COTT?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Yet rogue priest and bishops prevent people from receiving this way on a regular basis. I guess they don’t understand what the “norm” is

To my knowledge, this was not dropped. People can still receive communion on the tongue. And no one can be refused communion while kneeling. Can you clarify?

 

[Ockham]

The New Testament and the entire Christian tradition. Yes, I’m familiar.

Are you saying CITH has been around for the entire New Testament? Do you have a source for this claim?

What do you know about the Dutch bishops in the 60’s?

Fine, thanks. Yours?

Good to hear. What have you learned?

I’d ask the same of you. What facts and sources are you specifically interested in?

If you have read this thread like you claimed you would have come across many sources I have provided. So far you have yet to provide one. Don’t you think your position would have more credibility if you provided sources?