Not just another CITH Thread...

[ProVobis]

We think we can run a city better than our mayor, we think we can run a country better than our president (or in my case, our prime minster). Even in our jobs, oftentimes we think we can be better than our manager, thinking his job is so simple and we wonder why it seems he makes a lot of mistakes. But truth is, we do not know their situations fully.

You seem to be on the right track here. But let’s go from here in another way. Let’s take the situation of states allowing 16-yr olds to get driver’s licenses, despite the fact they want first and foremost to keep accidents to a minimum. Does this mean everyone 16-yr old automatically gets one? Of course not. He must meet certain conditions, 1 he must pass a drivers test, 2 he must be insurance-covered, 3 he must not have his license revoked. And then can he drive the road? Not quite, he now has to have a car and more than likely, he will need some parental oversight.

This seems like a lot of conditions to be met. And yet the Church imposes tougher conditions on receiving CITH all in the name of paying the utmost respect to God and people simply dismiss those conditions as not relevant to them? At the least it’s serious disobedience to the Church and at the worse total sacrilegious to God.

 

[Ockham]

This seems like a lot of conditions to be met. And yet the Church imposes tougher conditions on receiving CITH all in the name of paying the utmost respect to God and people simply dismiss those conditions as not relevant to them? At the least it’s serious disobedience to the Church and at the worse total sacrilegious to God.

Most OFs I attend I don’t receive Holy Communion. So often out of curiosity I’ll watch the Communion line. Yes, I know I should be focused on the Bridegroom,etc, I know those retorts. What I don’t see from those receiving the Blessed Sacrament via the indult are all the conditions. No one bows first. Anywhere between 1/4 to 1/3 walk away from the Minister before consuming the Host. Most of the EMHCs break their rules too.

You don’t have to worry about such things at an EF.

Is it any wonder only 25% of Catholics attend weekly Mass and a diminishing percentage believe in the Real Presence? These things were predicted by Pope Paul VI and ignored by his bishops.

 

[Robster7]

Why would you not receive communion at an OF, assuming you haven’t already received that day, are in a state of grace, etc?

 

[Ockham]

Because I go to an EF that same day. I should have stated that. Also, because I prefer to practice the Church’s universal norm and receive on the tongue while kneeling. That’s difficult in most OF Masses, contrary to the indult.

 

[ProVobis]

Also, because I prefer to practice the Church’s universal norm and receive on the tongue while kneeling. That’s difficult in most OF Masses, contrary to the indult.

That’s very true. And where they do give you COTT, they seem to ostracize you, things have gotten that bad.

 

[Ockham]

Consider the Lavabo prayer in the EF:

*I wash my hands in innocense, and I go around Your altar, O Lord,

Giving voice to my thanks, and recounting all Your wonderous deeds.

O Lord, I love the house in which You dwell, the tenting-place of Your glory.

Gather not my soul with those of sinners, nor with men of blood my life.

On their hands are crimes, and their right hands are full of bribes.

But I walk in integrity; redeem me, and have pity on me.

My foot stands on level ground, in the assemblies I will bless You, O Lord.*

Why does the priest say this prayer in the EF but not the OF? Even in the OF the priest says a shortened prayer and symbolically washed his hands. Yet, at Communion, a member of the laity who has not said any form of this prayer nor washed his/her hands symbolically distributes the Blessed Sacrament into the hands of another member of the laity who also didn’t pray the Lavabo.

Doesn’t the OF form make the Lavabo redundant?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Most OFs I attend I don’t receive Holy Communion. So often out of curiosity I’ll watch the Communion line. Yes, I know I should be focused on the Bridegroom,etc, I know those retorts. What I don’t see from those receiving the Blessed Sacrament via the indult are all the conditions. No one bows first. Anywhere between 1/4 to 1/3 walk away from the Minister before consuming the Host. Most of the EMHCs break their rules too.

You don’t have to worry about such things at an EF.

Is it any wonder only 25% of Catholics attend weekly Mass and a diminishing percentage believe in the Real Presence? These things were predicted by Pope Paul VI and ignored by his bishops.

Even with people who receive COTT, there are those who do not bow/genuflect/kneel. They just walk up and receive COTT.

 

[Ockham]

Even with people who receive COTT, there are those who do not bow/genuflect/kneel. They just walk up and receive COTT.

The proper way to receive the Blessed Sacrament is on the tongue while kneeling. The Church teaches nothing else is required of the receipient. To receive in the hand while standing comes with several requirements and conditions. It is an exception to the rule and as leading clergy are now telling us needs to be reconsidered.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You seem to be on the right track here. But let’s go from here in another way. Let’s take the situation of states allowing 16-yr olds to get driver’s licenses, despite the fact they want first and foremost to keep accidents to a minimum. Does this mean everyone 16-yr old automatically gets one? Of course not. He must meet certain conditions, 1 he must pass a drivers test, 2 he must be insurance-covered, 3 he must not have his license revoked. And then can he drive the road? Not quite, he now has to have a car and more than likely, he will need some parental oversight.

This seems like a lot of conditions to be met. And yet the Church imposes tougher conditions on receiving CITH all in the name of paying the utmost respect to God and people simply dismiss those conditions as not relevant to them? At the least it’s serious disobedience to the Church and at the worse total sacrilegious to God.

There are many people poorly taught, whether they receive COTT or CITH. In another thread there is a discussion about whether saying Amen in the OF Mass as called for by the GIRM is mandatory, and if the minister of the Eucharist has the right to withhold communion until the proper response is given. I was taught that was the case, but upon an effort to research it I cannot find a Church document that specifically states that a person cannot receive unless they say Amen even if the GIRM calls out for it. Same case with what you are saying, do we withhold Communion just because a person doesn’t posture the hands properly? Doesn’t bow? Etc.? Canon Law only supports withholding Communion for those you know are excommunicated and under penalty of law. So a minister of the Eucharist would have to give communion to those who freely seek it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The proper way to receive the Blessed Sacrament is on the tongue while kneeling. The Church teaches nothing else is required of the receipient. To receive in the hand while standing comes with several requirements and conditions. It is an exception to the rule and as leading clergy are now telling us needs to be reconsidered.

The two proper ways to receive are on the tongue, and where allowed on the hand. There are proper postures and outward signs of reverence suggested but nowhere is it prescribed that Communion be denied to people who do not follow them. Canon Law only enforces denial of Communion to those excommunicated and those under penalty of law.

 

[Ockham]

There are many people poorly taught, whether they receive COTT or CITH. In another thread there is a discussion about whether saying Amen in the OF Mass as called for by the GIRM is mandatory, and if the minister of the Eucharist has the right to withhold communion until the proper response is given. I was taught that was the case, but upon an effort to research it I cannot find a Church document that specifically states that a person cannot receive unless they say Amen even if the GIRM calls out for it. Same case with what you are saying, do we withhold Communion just because a person doesn’t posture the hands properly? Doesn’t bow? Etc.? Canon Law only supports withholding Communion for those you know are excommunicated and under penalty of law. So a minister of the Eucharist would have to give communion to those who freely seek it.

The indult clearly states the recepient is to bow and then say “Amen” prior to receiving the Blessed Sacrament in their hand. Why would you need to appeal to Canon Law?

 

[ProVobis]

They just walk up and receive COTT.

I’m one of those. That’s the only way I know of how I can best reduce the congestion of all the indecisions, bowing, genuflecting, standing to the side, people breathing down your back, etc. Need to bring back the communion rail too.

 

[Ockham]

The two proper ways to receive are on the tongue, and where allowed on the hand. There are proper postures and outward signs of reverence suggested but nowhere is it prescribed that Communion be denied to people who do not follow them. Canon Law only enforces denial of Communion to those excommunicated and those under penalty of law.

By ‘proper way’ I mean the universal norm of the Church. The other is an exception to the rule available only by an indult that may be revoked at any time.

 

[Ockham]

As per the indult, care must also be taken to ensure the recepient’s hands are clean and that no particles fall to the ground. How’s that working in your local parish?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m one of those. That’s the only way I know of how I can best reduce the congestion of all the indecisions, bowing, genuflecting, standing to the side, people breathing down your back, etc. Need to bring back the communion rail too.

I genuflect, but I make sure the time I take is about the same time for the priest to give Communion to the person on the other line.

 

[ConstantineTG]

By ‘proper way’ I mean the universal norm of the Church. The other is an exception to the rule available only by an indult that may be revoked at any time.

It doesn’t matter if its an indult or not. What the Church has allowed is allowed by law. Anyone is free to do what the Church has allowed.

 

[Ockham]

I genuflect, but I make sure the time I take is about the same time for the priest to give Communion to the person on the other line.

That’s a good thing. Doesn’t it make you wonder why the priest genuflects or bows during the Consecration yet the recepients at OFs don’t?

 

[ConstantineTG]

As per the indult, care must also be taken to ensure the recepient’s hands are clean and that no particles fall to the ground. How’s that working in your local parish?

Why don’t you come to my parish, stand on the edge of the communion line and inspect the people’s hands?

Do you inspect people’s mouths before they receive COTT? Make sure there’s no piece of meat stuck between their teeth?

 

[Ockham]

It doesn’t matter if its an indult or not. What the Church has allowed is allowed by law. Anyone is free to do what the Church has allowed.

The indult didn’t come from the Church. It came from independent councils of bishops. It was approved by the Church but only as an exception and with several conditions most as it seems are ignored.

 

[ProVobis]

As per the indult, care must also be taken to ensure the recepient’s hands are clean and that no particles fall to the ground. How’s that working in your local parish?

Many, if not most, have never seen a paten, which is the traditional and effective and most practical tool of preventing particles from falling. And one would think with the CITH, it would be even more important to use the paten.