Not just another CITH Thread...

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Well then why did Pope Paul VI state the recepient has to bow and say amen if it’s not required? I just recently found out about the bow requirement. I’ve received CITH most of my life incorrectly. Had I known I would have most certainly followed the indult. Does this not seem ludicrous to anyone else?
 
Well then why did Pope Paul VI state the recepient has to bow and say amen if it’s not required? I just recently found out about the bow requirement. I’ve received CITH most of my life incorrectly. Had I known I would have most certainly followed the indult. Does this not seem ludicrous to anyone else?
It is required, except in cases where a person is deaf, cannot speak, etc. (there was someone posting just a couple of weeks ago worried about how his deaf child should deal with this rubric). It’s required, but there’s simply no punishment to be exercised if a person does not comply. The pastoral response would be to counsel the person about the rubric and the importance of adhering to it. I should say, there’s no earthly punishment to be applied; I suppose if a person obstinately refused to bow and say the response out of pride or a similarly unjustifiable motive, his might justly be punished but not on this earth.
 
Mark, I’m getting even more concerned about this. Are you saying those who don’t bow before receiving Communion are committing a sin? Are they aware of this sin? Are they Confessing it? I received Communion in hand while standing and never bowed. Should I confess this?

Wouldn’t it be simpler for the Minister to withhold the Blessed Sacrament until the recepient acts accordingly?
 
Mark, I’m getting even more concerned about this. Are you saying those who don’t bow before receiving Communion are committing a sin? Are they aware of this sin? Are they Confessing it? I received Communion in hand while standing and never bowed. Should I confess this?

Wouldn’t it be simpler for the Minister to withhold the Blessed Sacrament until the recepient acts accordingly?
I can’t tell if you’re deliberately overreacting to prove a point, but no, if a person is not aware of the rubric, or forgets about it, or is unable to bend at the waist, etc., etc., etc., then there is no sin. In any event, I would expect that any sin that might attach would be venial, and even then only if the refusal to bow were for, well, venial motives like pride.

And no, it would be far, far worse (from what I can tell of the relevant canons, forbidden) for the priest to withhold the Sacrament under any such circumstance.
 
I can’t tell if you’re deliberately overreacting to prove a point, but no, if a person is not aware of the rubric, or forgets about it, or is unable to bend at the waist, etc., etc., etc., then there is no sin. In any event, I would expect that any sin that might attach would be venial, and even then only if the refusal to bow were for, well, venial motives like pride.

And no, it would be far, far worse (from what I can tell of the relevant canons, forbidden) for the priest to withhold the Sacrament under any such circumstance.
No, I’m not being disingenuous. I’m sincerely confused.

Let me get this straight: the indult says bow and say amen, but if you don’t it’s ok unless in your heart you’re refusing from the sin of pride.

What if you know you are suppose to bow but just don’t consider it necessary? Will everyone that reads this thread now bow in the Communion line?

Has CITH helped us or caused confusion and worse effects?
 
You work for Catholic Answers?
LOL, no my friend, I do not. I’m neither and employee nor a volunteer at CA. In fact, I’m on the other coast.

When I say this I should have been more clear. I apologize. The scope and mission of our community is to preach the Gospel to Catholics in the hope of bringing unity and reconciliation within the Church in the manner of St. Francis and according to his commands. In light of the expansive use of the internet by Catholics, the entire Franciscan family is not involved in some form of online ministry, either entire houses or individual friars as assigned by the local Father Guardian. It is our hope that by bringing Catholics together we can overcome the greatest sin of our day, the destruction of the vulnerable, through the conversion of hearts.

I hope that helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
So the indult says the recepient is to bow and say amen, but if they don’t that’s ok?
It’s not an impairment to receiving the sacrament. There is a difference between poor form on the part of the person and an impairment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
No, I’m not being disingenuous. I’m sincerely confused.

Let me get this straight: the indult says bow and say amen, but if you don’t it’s ok unless in your heart you’re refusing from the sin of pride.

What if you know you are suppose to bow but just don’t consider it necessary? Will everyone that reads this thread now bow in the Communion line?

Has CITH helped us or caused confusion and worse effects?
I guess I don’t understand the confusion. It’s not that “it’s ok” unless you’re refusing for contemptible reasons, it’s that you ought to be informed about it so that you can be a better Catholic. It’s like a person finding out for the first time that the rubric actually says that people ought to bow (or genuflect, as appropriate) during the et incarnatus est. Even though it can be distracting to try to remember to do it, a person ought to be grateful at having been informed about what the Church has deemed to be the appropriate gesture of reverence. And what if you don’t feel like it? I don’t know, I guess you ought to probably suck it up and do it anyway. In any event, the issue is to be dealt with pastorally; there is no provision for a priest to deny administering the Sacrament to the faithful for such a reason.

Additionally, with respect again to your previous response (that the priest ought to “play it safe”) by refusing the Sacrament, you’ve got it quite backward. It is not “playing it safe” to decide on the spot that a person’s failure to bow or say Amen is a consciously-chosen sin and not merely an instance of ignorance or forgetfulness.
 
So, if there is no penalty, it is “allowed” not to bow then? 😉
I am a firm believer of this:
We should do what’s right because its right, not because we’ll get punished if we don’t do it.
 
Our pastor spent time in homilies on several occasions explaining how to bow in advance of receiving the host, etc. Some people did; many didn’t. I don’t know why not. Maybe they didn’t have their hearing aids turned on.
 
Our pastor spent time in homilies on several occasions explaining how to bow in advance of receiving the host, etc. Some people did; many didn’t. I don’t know why not. Maybe they didn’t have their hearing aids turned on.
Or they follow the “I’ll do as you do, not what you say” law. 😉
 
The scope and mission of our community is to preach the Gospel to Catholics in the hope of bringing unity and reconciliation within the Church in the manner of St. Francis and according to his commands. In light of the expansive use of the internet by Catholics, the entire Franciscan family is not involved in some form of online ministry, either entire houses or individual friars as assigned by the local Father Guardian. It is our hope that by bringing Catholics together we can overcome the greatest sin of our day, the destruction of the vulnerable, through the conversion of hearts.
Not all Catholics are interested in following the Gospels in the manner of St. Francis. If this is the path you’ve chosen then may God bless you. Perhaps a better use of your time would be in offering counsel to those who seek it rather than constantly interjecting the Fransican perspective it into chatroom discussions…
 
I guess I don’t understand the confusion. It’s not that “it’s ok” unless you’re refusing for contemptible reasons, it’s that you ought to be informed about it so that you can be a better Catholic. It’s like a person finding out for the first time that the rubric actually says that people ought to bow (or genuflect, as appropriate) during the et incarnatus est. Even though it can be distracting to try to remember to do it, a person ought to be grateful at having been informed about what the Church has deemed to be the appropriate gesture of reverence. And what if you don’t feel like it? I don’t know, I guess you ought to probably suck it up and do it anyway. In any event, the issue is to be dealt with pastorally; there is no provision for a priest to deny administering the Sacrament to the faithful for such a reason.

Additionally, with respect again to your previous response (that the priest ought to “play it safe”) by refusing the Sacrament, you’ve got it quite backward. It is not “playing it safe” to decide on the spot that a person’s failure to bow or say Amen is a consciously-chosen sin and not merely an instance of ignorance or forgetfulness.
The complexity of this post proves why CITH has created confusion among the faithful and not aided in their spiritual journey.
 
Or they follow the “I’ll do as you do, not what you say” law. 😉
The priest does not, if memory serves, bow before taking the Eucharist, but why would this be of concern (or even noticed) by anyone? :confused:
 
The mouth has been proven to be dirtier than the hand, both in a spiritual point of view (we sin more withour mouths than our hand) and in a biological sense
Ahm, just of blind curiosity, what do you do with the Blessed Sacrament once it hits your hands?

I said to present in the most perfect way we can. The hands that grip another’s hands have more than likely been exposed to whatever is present in the mucus membranes of the other, as many people wipe their eyes, noses and mouths from time to time. Aside from MSRA, the resurgence of TB and Whooping Cough, the fact of the matter is hands get dirty and germy, just by handling the song book or greeting one’s neighbor…why would anyone want to receive the most precious of gifts with hands that were just sneezed into?

It’s just my opinion, I’m not forcing anyone at gunpoint, but please understand the guy who bows at you rather than shaking hands, may have observed you doing some nose mining moments before.
 
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