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Layman
Guest
Will the Trad Alliance prevail against the CITH Lords? The saga continues …
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ProVobis
Guest
The abuse is a minor issue compared against the risk of profanity against God Himself. The Church, in fact, has made it a condition that CITH be risk-free from profanity. Is this risk-free everywhere? I certainly don’t see it in place that don’t use the paten, for one thing.
It is really dangerous to use this “allowance” clause in many cases of the law. Caution must be exercised. Look at what happened with Progressio Populorum when Paul VI “allowed” Catholics to use their consciences in planning the size of their families. When he later issued the HV to try to stop ABC, it needed to be issued but much damage had already been done because of the misunderstanding of PP (amongst other things).
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Ockham
Guest
Here’s advice from a priest: wdtprs.com/blog/2008/06/msgr-guido-marini-communion-kneeling-and-on-the-tongue-will-be-the-standard-for-papal-masses/
In Peru the indult was cancelled: *"A reader from Lima, Peru has informed Rorate that to receive holy communion at the Cathedral-Basilica of Lima, Perú, the faithful must now kneel in addition to receiving only on the tongue. For that purpose, two kneelers are now put before the steps of the high altar at the moment of Communion, just like in Papal Masses.
In his sermon on September 20, 2009 in the Cathedral, Juan Luis Cardinal Cipriani Thorne, Archbishop of Lima, made the following statement:
“The most respectful way of receiving the Eucharist is kneeling and on the tongue. We must recover a sense of respect and reverence due to the Eucharist, because the love to Jesus is the center of our Christian lives. Our souls are at stake.”"*
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/09/communion-kneeling-and-on-tongue-made.html
In Peru the indult was cancelled: *"A reader from Lima, Peru has informed Rorate that to receive holy communion at the Cathedral-Basilica of Lima, Perú, the faithful must now kneel in addition to receiving only on the tongue. For that purpose, two kneelers are now put before the steps of the high altar at the moment of Communion, just like in Papal Masses.
In his sermon on September 20, 2009 in the Cathedral, Juan Luis Cardinal Cipriani Thorne, Archbishop of Lima, made the following statement:
“The most respectful way of receiving the Eucharist is kneeling and on the tongue. We must recover a sense of respect and reverence due to the Eucharist, because the love to Jesus is the center of our Christian lives. Our souls are at stake.”"*
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/09/communion-kneeling-and-on-tongue-made.html
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John_Monaco
Guest
I do believe that receiving on the tongue is the most solemn way of doing so, and in all cases I try to receive it on the tongue; however
I have an elderly priest, who is about 5’7. I am about 6’1, and he often struggled with bringing the host all the way up to my tongue, as his hands would shake tremendously, and I feared he would drop it. Therefore, to spare him that trouble, ever since when I receive communion from him, or other elderly priests that are way shorter than me, I just receive it in the hand and make the Sign of the Cross afterwards.
Is that sacrilegious? I do not think so. It would be worse to arrogantly insist to receive on the tongue, and make the 75 year old priest struggle to bring it up.
Peace
I have an elderly priest, who is about 5’7. I am about 6’1, and he often struggled with bringing the host all the way up to my tongue, as his hands would shake tremendously, and I feared he would drop it. Therefore, to spare him that trouble, ever since when I receive communion from him, or other elderly priests that are way shorter than me, I just receive it in the hand and make the Sign of the Cross afterwards.
Is that sacrilegious? I do not think so. It would be worse to arrogantly insist to receive on the tongue, and make the 75 year old priest struggle to bring it up.
Peace
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ProVobis
Guest
The norm is kneeling and receiving on the tongue. There are occasional problems with standing and receiving communion on the tongue, the priest may be much smaller or much larger than the communicant and most who advocate CITH also advocate kneeling, preferably at a communion rail or using kneelers.
As for being sacrilegious, the act itself according to theologists is not. It has more to do with your disposition and your treatment of the Host once you have It in your hands. Arrogance is a different sin.
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John_Monaco
Guest
We do not have a communion rail, and we stand in line. I cannot just kneel in the middle of the line and be a distraction, unless you mean I crouch down, which would be somewhat new to the priest.
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ProVobis
Guest
I spoke for the general congregation. I can’t say what people should or shouldn’t do in specific cases, you’re the better judge of that.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
The Church is the Church. The four marks of the true Church is Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and ONE.
We should stop dividing the Body of Christ into Traditionalist and Liberal, Latin and Byzantine. Its one Church. What’s good for one is good for all.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Where do I sign up for my lightsaber?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Same here. I grew up in a parish and Catholic school run by Franciscans. I will always have an affinity with them.
I am always eager to learn more about my beautiful Catholic faith, especially from JR.
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EnchantedEve
Guest
I knelt in line for years without our 80+ year old (ordained 1946) priest having a problem, and I took no longer than any other person. Typical of our American attitude that we feel receiving the Holy Eucharist is a more reverent way might “take too long” or be “disruptive.” Who cares? Christ is eternal, and for His glory, we have all the time in the world.
Literally.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I will have to charge you royalty for that.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Well, if its being done well in other parts of the Church, why can’t it be done well with our part of the Church? Would placing the incense on the communion line so people can purify their hands the way the Chaldeans do make CITH more acceptable to you?
COTT also isn’t risk free from profanity. Like I always say, if someone is ignorant enough or has enough of a desire to profane the Holy Eucharist, it will be done either way.
At this point, I leave it to the knowledge of the leadership whether to recind the indult. I agree with Bro. JR. First, its not our place to be saying it should be recinded. There are considerations they make that we are not knowledgable of. I apply here my knowledge of business and project management. When I was only a lowly programmer, I always think my bosses are dumb, because sometimes the choices from my point of view are obvious, but they don’t do it or see it. When I assumed a leadership role, I realize its not always that simple. As a programmer all I saw was myself and my boss. As a project leader, I see all the members of the team, the upper management, plus the customer. The Pope, the Cardinals and all the other Bishops are the same way. They see more of the Church than we do so they can make a better call on how to handle things. Was CITH a mistake? Maybe, but they can’t just yank it from under our feet lets they introduce chaos into the Church. Every move has to be thought of carefully. We have to leave it to them, its their job, its their responsibility, and they are the ones called to serve the Church in that capacity.
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EnchantedEve
Guest
I do not oppose CITH per se, as it is not in my power to do so. However, if people practice it they should retain the ancient practice, which, if they are not in the clerical state, is to veil their hands with a white linen handkerchief and bring both hands together to the mouth to insert the host, never touching it with their bare hands. Nowhere was this old perscription for CITH done away with when the practice was permitted. People took it upon themeselves to do otherwise. This does not make it right.Communion on the tongue may never be refused. Communion on the hand may not be refused where the indult is in place.
That being said, the indult has provisions that allow the bishop to decide when it may and may not be used. The indult was granted to the entire USCCB. Nonetheless, the bishop of my diocese my decide not to make use of it. If the bishop does make use of it, then the parishes must do so, unless they have the bishop’s pernmission not to do, such as the FSSP, FI, and others.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
My understanding was under the previous Code of 1917, only tonsured clerics could touch the sacred vessels, and, if necessary, the Host. But generally only those in Major Orders (Subdeacon, Deacon, Priest, Bishop) could this.
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
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EnchantedEve
Guest
Just to mention, it is a myth our mouths our dirtier than our hands. It depends on the circumstance, of course!I’m not contesting that. But people seem to have the impression because our hands are physically dirty we cannot touch the Host. But our mouths are dirtier than our hands. I’m disproving the point that our hands are unworthy because of the germs it contains.
So you’re not worried by the priest who’s touched the lectionary and whatever books are on the ambo, which have been touched by the other readers as well. And unless you’re first on the Communion line, the priest could have inadvertently touched a number of people’s mouths and tongues before you received.
I mean c’mon, are we supposed to turn into germophobes at the Communion line? Don’t forget that while our hands may have touched dirty things, it is also thorough our hands that we perform the works that Christ asks of us. We do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help the poor, heal the sick with our mouth. We do it with our hands. The same with our mouths, we can use it to sing and shout praises to God, or curse our neighbors. If we’re going to over analyze receiving Communion and break it down as if it was an exact science, then I’m afraid we have missed the point.
I schedule my mining outside of Mass
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HCC
Guest
If one of the goals was to make the Mass more eccumenical in form, why were the communion rails removed in the first place? Even the Anglicans and many Lutheran churches kneel for communion and they don’t believe in the real presence as understood by the Catholic Church.
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Ockham
Guest
Wish I’d posted that too. How much will the royalty fee be?
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EnchantedEve
Guest
In the Old Mass he did bow before receiving the Host. I do not remember the current rubric. JR…?The priest does not, if memory serves, bow before taking the Eucharist, but why would this be of concern (or even noticed) by anyone?
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Ockham
Guest
COTT and the TLM were yanked from under our feet. As the seminarian here just posted it is often difficult to receive COTT while kneeling now.
All Catholics have a duty to protect and practice the faith. People have always been talking about changes to the Church so it’s a bit outlandish to suggest we have no right to be discussing these things. Leading clergy are talking publically about rethinking CITH so all we’re doing is following their lead.
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