Not kissing, but are we still ok?

  • Thread starter Thread starter applepie
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

applepie

Guest
Hi,

I would be grateful for advice re maintaining purity in a dating relationship…

We are both in our late 20s and have been actively involved in our parishes for many years, we are also involved in our parish cell prayer groups. We want to keep this new relationship as pure as we possible can.

We have decided not to kiss. We hold hands and put our arms around each others shoulders. This feels fine. However, the “grey area” happens when we are back in his house for dinner/video/prayer etc. He lives by himself. We sit on the sofa and then gradually “slide down” until we are almost (but not quite) lying down together - kind of half horizontal, half vertical. I might for example lie back in his arms or he might lie with his head on a cushion on my lap. We hold each other or rub each others arms/elbows etc but that’s about it.

While in the strict sense, it doesn’t seem that we are doing anything wrong, I’m not convinved that we are ok. Despite the fact that no kissing or anything overtly sexual is going on, I’m just wondering are we leaving ourselves open to sin - in the near future or at a later date. Spending time with him in this way certainly leaves me with a desire to get closer to him - not to sex itself, but perhaps further along the “physical road”. I also find some of the touching, eg up and down the arms can send tingles through me.

What about shoulder / back massages?

All advice appreciated - from men and from women. Bear in mind that we really want to try and keep this relationship as pure as we possibly can.
 
applepie,

My wife and I were in your situation, almost 20 years ago. We were even a little older than you. We were both strong practicing Catholics (and still are), and we wanted to keep our relationship pure, for the same reasons you do.

Unfortunately, we let things slide too far. We tried to justify our actions at the time, but we both knew what we were doing was wrong and would lead to impurity. We never had intercourse, but there was a time when I lost control and climaxed. It was at that point that I could no longer deny that we had crossed the line, and we had a talk, deciding to stop doing the things we were doing.

However before we got to that point, we had compromised ourselves in many of the ways you’re describing. The things you’ve described are not in themselves sinful. I can tell you, though, from personal experience, that stopping the slide once it starts is extremely difficult. It is better not to even begin sliding.

Of course, we’ve been forgiven through the bounteous graces of the Lord through confession. BUT, like all sin, it’s left its mark.

To this day, I deeply regret having gone as far as we did. I truly wish, with all my heart, that we had remained pure until our wedding night. And most of all, I have deep sorrow for leading the love of my life into sin and jeopardizing her eternal salvation. That’s hardly an expression of true love!

Fight the good fight. Protect your purity. You won’t regret it!
 
What is appropriate is SO individual - please don’t take anyone’s advice too seriously, especially people who are so distant from your actual experience and don’t know your boyfriend.
That being said, I would say that if you aren’t kissing then you probably won’t have a hard time staying pure - what you are doing sounds perfectly appropriate for a dating relationship - some physical intimacy is fitting and expresses the relationship more truly then staying away from all of it.
Expressing the level of relationship is what physical intimacy is about - so holding hands, snuggling on the couch, back rubs, etc. all express that you are in an exclusive, romantic relationship with someone.
Much more then that is expressing a relationship that is beyond courtship though.
As with the post above, I would have to say that based on my own experience of dating, enjoyable as it is, actually lying down together (on the couch or elsewhere) is more expressive of marriage then of a dating relationship.
Also, enjoy the tingly feeling now b/c the more often you do it the less it tingles 😉
 
I think you’ve done a good job of recognizing that there is a line that should not be crossed. You have drawn your own line well in front of the “real” line as a precaution. This way, if you happen to cross your own line (and kiss), then you are still a safe ways away from the “real” line.

I would continue as you are. If anything changes (lets say a massage gets too romantic), discuss it with each other afterwards. Since both of you have the same mind set you should be able to determine rules that allow for some physical signs of affection without risking falling into wanton lust.

Above all, you both need to be crystal clear on where you stand so you can catch yourselves if your hormones start to run away with you.
 
Thanks all for the replies 👍

Your replies were exactly what I was looking for - real experiences of people who have been in this situation before us.

My boyfriend and I had a chat over the weekend and we have decided to take a step back physically - we are both conscious of the “slippery slope” and how the body is only satisfied with a particular level of physical intimacy for so long - before long, it looks for something more and the slide can begin.

I guess it is down to the individual couple to a certain extent but we both felt that what we were doing was providing us with occasions of temptation that one day we may well be tempted to take advantage of. In the heat of the moment it can be so hard to pull back.

Thanks again - anyone else have anything else to add?
 
The more you forego at this stage, the more presents to unwrap in your marriage. 👍

Scott
 
Sounds familiar!!

I would venture that most all couples kind of go through this same cycle. Get too close; back away; get too close; back away.

Discuss it (how you can evolve your relationship and still remain chaste and free from near occasions of sin).

Involve the Church in your dating. Make visits to the Blessed Sacrament together and individually; pray for cool ideas to get you through this in a wholesome way. Spend less time alone together in the apartment. Spend more time outside, among other people, to inhibit “excessive fraternization”.

There are day trips sponsored by various parishes and groups to religious sites and seminars. All kinds of neat dating opportunities that would inhibit excessive physicality.

Pray together.

Have a great life!!
 
Al Masetti:
Involve the Church in your dating. Make visits to the Blessed Sacrament together and individually; pray for cool ideas to get you through this in a wholesome way. Spend less time alone together in the apartment. Spend more time outside, among other people, to inhibit “excessive fraternization”.

Pray together.
QUOTE]

Some great ideas there - thanks !
Click to expand...
 
40.png
applepie:
All advice appreciated - from men and from women. Bear in mind that we really want to try and keep this relationship as pure as we possibly can.
Click to expand...
Hi!
Its great that you are working hard on keeping this relationship pure.

A few things, keep in mind that you are just learning about each other to see if there is potential for marriage. From what I read it seems like you aren’t engaged (even if you were engaged this is not a guarantee that you will marry). Just remember that this man you are massaging or laying next to etc may end up being someone else’s husband and that you may end up being someone else’s wife and as a side note, purposeful arousal outside marriage is a sin.

Also, often a small kiss in public may be less of an occasion of sin that being alone in an apartment with a man one is attracted to and is physically in contact with (laying, massaging, etc.) I’m not saying you should change your rule, but just reminding you that one shouldn’t get off guard thinking that as long as a couple doesn’t kiss, they will be ok. One could use the excuse that one is not kissing to allow oneself to do other things that are not ok. Once a couple starts down the slope (which can happen without kisses) it is a slippery slope.

I really liked the idea of going out with others. If you would like some time alone, which may be advisable if you want to be able to talk and be able to discern your future together, then you could still do it by going to a park, a restaurant by yourselves (if you can talk without having people around you hearing), a coffee shop, or any other non-busy public area. You can also have him come over to your house if others live with you and you can sit outside alone, or in the family room alone, or any other place you can get privacy without the possibility of being able to do anything you shouldn’t.

Go to as many activities etc as you can together. Have fun, and keep God in your relationship. I wish you the best!!!
 
Why have any physical contact at all before your wedding day? Simply being together, like a brother with a sister, with the knowledge of a future lifetime for all things belonging exclusively to Marriage should be enough, shouldn’t it? What if you were to end up not marrying? What righteous man would want some man to have been deciding what he might have done with that woman by rubbing her limbs, etc.?
If one is not sure about another being his/her rightful spouse from GOD, that person ought not to even open the part of the soul, to the other, to which sexuality is linked.
On the other hand, if one is convinced already that he/she is dealing with GOD’s choice of a spouse for him/her, simply opening that intimate part of the soul, but without any thought of physicality, ought to be intimacy enough.
I am 31 myself, and have held these convictions since my teens. As a result, I know both that I have kept myself for the one, right lady, and that, in regarding her my future wife, I am not tresspassing her at all.
 
Set a date and stick to it. Or don’t. With such an attentive spirit, the Lord can guide you by making you think and discern if this is right. That’s what courtship is about. 👍
 
40.png
Oliviad:
What righteous man would want some man to have been deciding what he might have done with that woman by rubbing her limbs, etc.?
Click to expand...
Despite the failures in purity my wife and I had when we were engaged, I was a virgin when we got married, but my wife was not. She told me about it while we were engaged, but before we married. I loved her enough to accept her the way she was, and I made a decision right then never to hold it against her. I decided to offer up the pain of not being the only man she ever slept with as atonement for her sin. I have been true to that decision and have never regretted it.

Righteous enuf for 'ya?

Someone’s failure to live without sin does not make them unlovable!
 
Despite the failures in purity my wife and I had when we were engaged, I was a virgin when we got married, but my wife was not. She told me about it while we were engaged, but before we married. I loved her enough to accept her the way she was, and I made a decision right then never to hold it against her. I decided to offer up the pain of not being the only man she ever slept with as atonement for her sin. I have been true to that decision and have never regretted it.
Click to expand...
I do not disagree with you about that - I am saying that other man should never have done what he did (and I am sure you would want to prevent, with whatever fruitful advice, other females from allowing themselves to be in such situations). The original poster asked for advice, and I did not say amiss - it is a worthy contemplation to have, in order to make headway in ordering one’s life toward less regrets and a more rewarding (and, perhaps, sooner rewarding) future.
One who knows he is to be a monk has no business with any woman whatsoever; with one who knows he is created to marry, his attitude toward all but his one chosen one ought to be as detached as that of the monk to all women - and until he knows who that one for him really is, he ought to consider himself as out of contact with all that rightly is marital intimacy at present as the monk is from even a future knowledge of any such thing.
May GOD bless your own Marriage, and the original poster with what her Spirit longs for in CHRIST, and may our evil generation see a spread of an inviolable quality we can all hear Mary rejoicing over with shouts of Joy from Heaven.
 
40.png
12345678:
Hi!
From what I read it seems like you aren’t engaged (even if you were engaged this is not a guarantee that you will marry). Just remember that this man you are massaging or laying next to etc may end up being someone else’s husband and that you may end up being someone else’s wife and as a side note, purposeful arousal outside marriage is a sin.
!
Click to expand...
That’s true, we’re quite a long way off from being engaged. By the way, your comments above were exactly what the two of us were discussing the other night!

Thanks for all your help guys, this has all been really helpful for us.
 
40.png
Oliviad:
Why have any physical contact at all before your wedding day? Simply being together, like a brother with a sister,
Click to expand...
Hello Oliviad,

I think you are going a little overboard. I hug my sister. I rub my sister’s shoulders. I hold my sister’s hand. Certianly not huging or touching is not how normal brothers and sisters act toward one another. I do not know what kind of a family you come from but in our family we touch, hug, kiss (on the cheek) all the time.

Why I even hug my brother! Aunts, uncles, parishoners, priests, heck, I hug em all. I have even been known to hold hands in Church with my neighbor while praying the Lord’s prayer.

Hell applepie,

You are falling in love for pete sake. Nothing wrong with that. Your feelings would grow stonger regardless of whether you touched or did not touch. Love can even grow stronger if you are seperated for a lengthy period of time. It is not evil, it is the way God planned it.

Please give your friend a big hug for me. Thanks!

Steven
 
Steven,
sex only belongs in Marriage. It is a long known and accepted Doctrine that even two people meant to marry each other have no right before entering the Covenant of Marriage to any of the peculiarities of that Sacrament. The poster said she doesn’t know they will even marry, and to tempt her to foster passion she doesn’t know to be even theirs from GOD, even at a future date in Marriage, is to diminish the resolve she and the boyfriend honorably have striven against temptation to resolve upon.
You have no thought of being anything but a brother to your sister. If you have other than that exact affection for a female outside of your family, you are not at the same liberty before GOD to express it with touch. Always better to take time to recognize what is before us than to fall into a snare through leaning on our own carnal understanding.
Peace be to you and to all.
Oliviad
 
40.png
Oliviad:
You have no thought of being anything but a brother to your sister. If you have other than that exact affection for a female outside of your family, you are not at the same liberty before GOD to express it with touch.
Oliviad
Click to expand...
then why doesn’t your church make all physical contact - whether it be kissing, holding hands, whatever, outside of marriage a mortal sin? why, because these are your own beliefs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top