Not letting me join RCIA?

[Anrando]

Dear Joandarc2008,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, but excuse me, FIVE YEARS!

Are you suggesting that people really haven’t sufficiently proved their commitment after hanging around for five years waiting to be admitted to RCIA? You would think that were they not serious they would have gone their way long before five years.

I’m sorry but unless these folks are mentally deficient or there is some question of competence or something I can’t for the life of me see why it would take five years for RCIA to decide whether or not they should proceed.

Also I have a difficult time grasping the concept that it is “better” to remain unbaptized than to have been baptized and to not follow all the tenants of the Church. Is it “less” sinful to be unbaptized, than to fail to live a saintly life after baptism? If THAT is true then baptism should be discouraged, as I’m afraid few of us raise to the level of saints in our practice of the faith. We try, but most fail in one way or another. That’s why the Church offers Reconciliation. And again, what of the 1000’s of “cradle” Catholics that have left or divorced or whatever. Are they worse off for having been Baptized?

I am not trying to be argumentative here, that is really NOT my style. Just curious as to the apparent “inquiry” stage of the RCIA program that I have not experienced.

I never went through any RCIA “inquiry”. My 8 years of Catechism and Confirmation classes in school under the tutelage of the Carmelites was considered sufficient preparation for my acceptance into RCIA.

Thanks,
W.Unland

 

[joandarc2008]

Dear Joandarc2008,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, but excuse me, FIVE YEARS!

Are you suggesting that people really haven’t sufficiently proved their commitment after hanging around for five years waiting to be admitted to RCIA? You would think that were they not serious they would have gone their way long before five years.

I’m sorry but unless these folks are mentally deficient or there is some question of competence or something I can’t for the life of me see why it would take five years for RCIA to decide whether or not they should proceed.

Also I have a difficult time grasping the concept that it is “better” to remain unbaptized than to have been baptized and to not follow all the tenants of the Church. Is it “less” sinful to be unbaptized, than to fail to live a saintly life after baptism? If THAT is true then baptism should be discouraged, as I’m afraid few of us raise to the level of saints in our practice of the faith. We try, but most fail in one way or another. That’s why the Church offers Reconciliation. And again, what of the 1000’s of “cradle” Catholics that have left or divorced or whatever. Are they worse off for having been Baptized?

I am not trying to be argumentative here, that is really NOT my style. Just curious as to the apparent “inquiry” stage of the RCIA program that I have not experienced.

I never went through any RCIA “inquiry”. My 8 years of Catechism and Confirmation classes in school under the tutelage of the Carmelites was considered sufficient preparation for my acceptance into RCIA.

Thanks,
W.Unland

There may be another issue there that we may not know about. For instance - if a couple has been divorced an remarried they would not be able to receive Sacraments but may choose to attend classes for their own benefit. However, this would be a situation that unless they chose to share would not be anyone’s business but their own - until their decree of nullity came through- could be longer if a decree of nullity was needed for each or if one spouse was estranged from their ex. Then there are some situations where a former spouse decides to appeal a decree of nullity to either the an interdiocesan council or Rome in some cases for no other reason just to be difficult. But these things can take time. And in the cases of working up the nerve to go through with an anullment process it can take time to just work up that nerve. Now this is all conjecture as to what may have happenned but the fact that it was said that it was a couple made me think right off the bat that the marital status may have had something to do with it. There is a lot sometimes that not everyone needs to be privy to.

To answer your question - usually the RCIA class process is1-2 years depending on where the class is in cycle when one makes the decision. Sometimes if there is an impediment - such as a divorce and remarriage that can lengthen the process because the person is not eligible to receive Sacraments because they are in a state of mortal sin - so the issue needs to be rectified through the Tribunal. Hopefully it can be with the support of the RCIA team - I have a friend of mine going through it now who is converting from the Anglican Church who is also terminal. She has been shown a lot of love and support - it is very heartwarming.

 

[ClairUK]

Dear Joandarc2008,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question, but excuse me, FIVE YEARS!

Are you suggesting that people really haven’t sufficiently proved their commitment after hanging around for five years waiting to be admitted to RCIA? You would think that were they not serious they would have gone their way long before five years.

I’m sorry but unless these folks are mentally deficient or there is some question of competence or something I can’t for the life of me see why it would take five years for RCIA to decide whether or not they should proceed.

W.Unland

I have to say I don’t understand this either. I was told when I enquired originally that the particular set of new RCIA classes were starting in the Autumn and if the inquirer themselves considered they were ready they could be accepted the following Easter, or continue with classes for another year.
I realise that a person needs to understand the teachings and the responsibilities they are taking on, but why it should take years I do not know. Perhaps the policies of these churches which are making people hang around for years on end should be revised - I wonder how many have been lost because they have been made to feel ‘unworthy’ through not being accepted for all that time.
After all didn’t Jesus say “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me” ??
It says nothing about opening the door and conversing on the doorstep for 5 years!

 

[Aramis]

I have to say I don’t understand this either. I was told when I enquired originally that the particular set of new RCIA classes were starting in the Autumn and if the inquirer themselves considered they were ready they could be accepted the following Easter, or continue with classes for another year.
I realise that a person needs to understand the teachings and the responsibilities they are taking on, but why it should take years I do not know. Perhaps the policies of these churches which are making people hang around for years on end should be revised - I wonder how many have been lost because they have been made to feel ‘unworthy’ through not being accepted for all that time.
After all didn’t Jesus say “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me” ??
It says nothing about opening the door and conversing on the doorstep for 5 years!

There are usually good reasons why one is not advanced for the catechumenate or candidacy. Often, it’s not as much lack of knowledge as not being able to accept all the dogma. In some cases, it’s due to heretical beliefs being held onto.

None will be turned away from the word of God. But not all are ready to unite with the Mystical Body of Christ (the Church). The ancient canons called for a 3 to 12 year catechumenate. The 1 year IS the reduction. Few spend more than 2 years as inquirers, an few spend more than 2 years as catechumens without it being their own choice.

Most complete the process, both of inquirer and catechumen, in 1.5-2.5 years.

Also, understand this: The Catholic teaching is that those inquiring and in the catechumenate are united to the church, and may possibly be saved, even tho’ they are not baptized yet. Candidates (who are already validly baptized), once accepted as candidates, are Catholics, but not fully initiated. They are potentially saved as well. Thus, there is no need to rush (but good cause not to dawdle, either), and to ensure that the knowledge they are expected to have is imparted.

 

[Aspiring_Saint]

Hi,

Thanks for all the responses. I get the feeling that they are making me wait because I have not been at the parish very long, and they are trying to see if I am a good fit for them. I do not have a sponsor, so I guess that may be an impediment as well. Also, they already had th rite of acceptance whil I was on vacation, so unless they decide to do another one soon, I don’t think I will get to move from inquiry to RCIA classes for another year. The inquiry classes are basically me just asking questions. I don’t really have any questions, except ones the people in the inquiry class don’t feel qualified to answer because they are not theologians…like what is the nature of purgatory. And those are just things I am throwing out there to get a conversation going. I don’t know if that is going to be sustainable for another year…I think it is going to end up being more of coffee and chatting about faith. Which would be ok, but I would rather be able to take sacraments in another six months instead of 18. I have just decided to leave it in God’s hands, and trust that whatever happens, it is his will.

 

[joandarc2008]

I have to say I don’t understand this either. I was told when I enquired originally that the particular set of new RCIA classes were starting in the Autumn and if the inquirer themselves considered they were ready they could be accepted the following Easter, or continue with classes for another year.
I realise that a person needs to understand the teachings and the responsibilities they are taking on, but why it should take years I do not know. Perhaps the policies of these churches which are making people hang around for years on end should be revised - I wonder how many have been lost because they have been made to feel ‘unworthy’ through not being accepted for all that time.
After all didn’t Jesus say “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me” ??
It says nothing about opening the door and conversing on the doorstep for 5 years!

Check post #22.

 

[catsrus]

Appreciate the fact that, unlike protestants, one can not just walk in and join The Holy Catholic Church.
Your life must be in order and you must understand and accept ALL the precepts of the faith or you will not be Confirmed.
I used my 3 year wait to throughly study and understand all I could and when my day of Confirmation came, I was so completely filled with awe and joy that I floated on a cloud for days and weeks afterward. I will NEVER forget that day. The wait was sooooo worth it!!!

 

[Young_Thinker]

I am attending a R.CI.A. class right now. Given that I want to become a priest, I am very thankful that my parish requires less than a calendar-year in preparation for baptism and confirmation. However, I can see 3 years as a reasonable wait for ful acceptance into the Church. 10 years, on the hand, seems to be too much. We encourage people to join, not turn them away. Adults also do not typically like to be treated like children(an attitude that they could easily perceive by such a long process).

 

[joandarc2008]

I am attending a R.CI.A. class right now. Given that I want to become a priest, I am very thankful that my parish requires less than a calendar-year in preparation for baptism and confirmation. However, I can see 3 years as a reasonable wait for ful acceptance into the Church. 10 years, on the hand, seems to be too much. We encourage people to join, not turn them away. Adults also do not typically like to be treated like children(an attitude that they could easily perceive by such a long process).

And Young Thinker what would you do if there are impediments like the ones described in #22 that cannot be dispensed with - would you have them start their life in the church by taking Eucharist in a state of mortal sin. I am asking since you seem to have all the answers without reading all the posts.

 

[Young_Thinker]

And Young Thinker what would you do if there are impediments like the ones described in #22 that cannot be dispensed with - would you have them start their life in the church by taking Eucharist in a state of mortal sin. I am asking since you seem to have all the answers without reading all the posts.

I am sorry if I have annoyed you. I am merely offering a personal opinion from experience. Yes, there are some difficult situations such as having remarried after a divorce(and annulments are not always possible), but I was speaking about Catholic conversion in general. It would be sad if one were die before ever being able to receive the Eucharist.

 

[joandarc2008]

I am sorry if I have annoyed you. I am merely offering a personal opinion from experience. Yes, there are some difficult situations such as having remarried after a divorce(and annulments are not always possible), but I was speaking about Catholic conversion in general. It would be sad if one were die before ever being able to receive the Eucharist.

But that would not be the case. It is not about annoying me - it is about speaking with authority on subjects that you do not have. Being brand new into the conversion process and wanting to be a priest someday does not make you an expert - this was one time exception that someone brought up - that you skipped over and made into a generalization.

1. For those that are not baptized and are in the process of conversion receive a “Baptism of Desire.” Those who are martyred receive a “Baptism of Blood.”

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1. For those that are unable to resolve their situations prior to death but are baptized they may still receive Last Rites which includes Confession, Eucharist, and the Annointing as well as Confirmation. Why? Well, when they receive Confession they will be going and sinning no more as the issue of the second marriage (adultery) is not going to be a continuing issue as this sin will not be repeating itself. I am not going to derail this thread on the issue divorce, remarriage, and anullments. The point is that it is not for us to judge whether or not the person should receive Eucharist - the Gospels already have. So to say that this person will not receive these things is uncharitable and does not show an understanding. The point is that it is not our business what some of these people were going through. For all we know - maybe one of their marriages could not be annulled and they had to wait for one of their former spouses to pass away. As sad as it is it happens. The choice is to live as brother and sister.

OK, there you are. Those are the two choices of why someone will not go without.

 

[Young_Thinker]

But that would not be the case. It is not about annoying me - it is about speaking with authority on subjects that you do not have. Being brand new into the conversion process and wanting to be a priest someday does not make you an expert - this was one time exception that someone brought up - that you skipped over and made into a generalization.

1. For those that are not baptized and are in the process of conversion receive a “Baptism of Desire.” Those who are martyred receive a “Baptism of Blood.”

I see. I did not claim to speak to much authority. Also, I do not mean to generalize; I often use examples when speaking upon a topic. I know that if a catechumen dies before being baptized, he does so in a state of grace.

 

[joandarc2008]

I see. I did not claim to speak to much authority. Also, I do not mean to generalize; I often use examples when speaking upon a topic. I know that if a catechumen dies before being baptized, he does so in a state of grace.

OK, the problem here is someone gave a case of a couple who took five years to enter RCIA and five years to complete and no one knew why. The program was not a ten year program. Chances are it was something with the couple not the program.

One thing about tribunal proceedings etc is these things are kept secret - if the couple does not tell you, you won’t know.

Just one correction - A catechumen does not necesarily die in a state of grace. Their lack of baptism does not preclude them from a state of Grace. Part of a desire to be formed is acts of kindness and charity. The Lord is the only one that knows are souls for sure. But I would submit to you that a catechumen that say for instance comes in with the intention of cleaning up their life after receiving the Sacraments may not find themselves in the same state of Grace - but that is whole other theological discussion that I am only half sure of.

 

[Young_Thinker]

OK, the problem here is someone gave a case of a couple who took five years to enter RCIA and five years to complete and no one knew why. The program was not a ten year program. Chances are it was something with the couple not the program.

One thing about tribunal proceedings etc is these things are kept secret - if the couple does not tell you, you won’t know.

Just one correction - A catechumen does not necesarily die in a state of grace. Their lack of baptism does not preclude them from a state of Grace. Part of a desire to be formed is acts of kindness and charity. The Lord is the only one that knows are souls for sure. But I would submit to you that a catechumen that say for instance comes in with the intention of cleaning up their life after receiving the Sacraments may not find themselves in the same state of Grace - but that is whole other theological discussion that I am only half sure of.

All right; I appreciate your clarification.

 

[Deacon_Chris_1]

I’m going to try to make this simple, but it isn’t. Clearly, anyone can ask for Baptism and receive it. It is the Catholic Church’s responsibility to bring the sacraments to the people. That being said, there are some dioceses where policy dictates that divorced RCIA candidates are excluded from baptism until there previous marriage(s) are resolved. The reason for this is Christian. I have an RCIA candidate who was previously married to a Catholic in a Moslem ceremony. If she is baptized, that will “sacramentalize” this previous marriage and make it valid. Right now it is “invalid”, so annulment is considerably easier. I’m pushing for her to get the annulment first so as to open a clear path to her Catholicism. She is only 35 and I’m really not anxious to baptize her into a religion where she will need to be celebate for the rest of her life. This is just my two cents, but it is based on Church policy, not law.
Deacon Chris

 

[joandarc2008]

I’m going to try to make this simple, but it isn’t. Clearly, anyone can ask for Baptism and receive it. It is the Catholic Church’s responsibility to bring the sacraments to the people. That being said, there are some dioceses where policy dictates that divorced RCIA candidates are excluded from baptism until there previous marriage(s) are resolved. The reason for this is Christian. I have an RCIA candidate who was previously married to a Catholic in a Moslem ceremony. If she is baptized, that will “sacramentalize” this previous marriage and make it valid. Right now it is “invalid”, so annulment is considerably easier. I’m pushing for her to get the annulment first so as to open a clear path to her Catholicism. She is only 35 and I’m really not anxious to baptize her into a religion where she will need to be celebate for the rest of her life. This is just my two cents, but it is based on Church policy, not law.
Deacon Chris

Understood about the divorced candidates however the divorced and remarried candidates cannot receive the Eucharist - is that not correct. Without the Eucharist how can they be fully initiated into the Church without receiving all three Sacraments of Initiation? This thread took an academic turn not on the OPs discussion.