Not marrying catholic?

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TheLittleLady said:
Rational people know that things like faith cannot be both true and untrue. It is not something subjective like “which flavor of ice cream to you prefer” or “Coke vs Pepsi”.

Either veneration if the Saints is idolatry or it is not. Both cannot be true. Heaven forbid you bring children into the mix, because kids are smart. It is likely as not they decide that because both cannot be true, neither is true and they walk away from Christianity all together.
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I completely agree. Either God would want people to pray for saints or he doesn’t. The trick is no one can say for certain which is the case. Each side has its own reasoning behind their positions and until they reach the great beyond they will not know whether they are right or not. That’s why I said that it’s possible for someone on one side of an argument to understand the position of the other side and also think the other side is wrong.

As far as not having kids exposed to different strains of Christianity with different positions on various topics, good luck with that. Unless you lock them in a cellar only speaking to one person they are going to be exposed to different positions, even within Christianity. Also, I’d like to think that the OP and her (possibly) future husband can work out how to approach the topic of praying to saints before getting married.
 
nunsense said:
I know Catholics who don’t pray to saints. They just don’t. But it doesn’t make them any less Catholic. Some recite the Psalms (LOH) while others prefer Adoration. Some go to daily Mass, others Sunday only. There is no one correct way to be a Catholic with regard to things that aren’t dogmatic.
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I couldn’t agree more. Among different groups praying to saints is a relatively minor division. If the future husband had problems with Catholic dogma then the discussions might be trickier (although definitely surmountable).
Personally, I don’t think you should be getting your marriage advice from a public forum.As you can see, there are many differing opinions. Your fiance will have to go through marriage prep with a priest and can ask him these questions. I know many ‘mixed’ Catholic/non Catholic marriages and they can work out fine if there is mutual respect. But there are a lot of people on here who obviously disagree with me, so talk to your fiance and your priest and work it out with them.
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You and I have both been on this site for a number of years. I’m sure, like me, when you read the original post you already knew most of what the replies would be. Still it doesn’t hurt to get a feel for what people think. It can help clarify what the real issue might be, plus it can give the OP some talking points to bring up to her guy, her priest, her family, etc.
 
1ke said:
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Mike_from_NJ:
might be how the OP’s husband looks at it
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He isn’t her husband yet. And that is why we are advising her that he may not be the right person for her.
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Whoops! I meant to write future husband. Obviously we don’t know all the facts here, but I’m rooting for the OP and her future husband to overcome this obstacle and make it work.
 
Do they plug their ears if they hear a litany of saints at Mass? I suppose there are Catholics that don’t pray to Mary etc. Or Catholics that when it was mandated refused to say the St Michael’s prayer at Mass. But it would not be the norm.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
Do they plug their ears if they hear a litany of saints at Mass? I suppose there are Catholics that don’t pray to Mary etc. Or Catholics that when it was mandated refused to say the St Michael’s prayer at Mass. But it would not be the norm.
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Now you’re just trying to be cute. There are people who do not specifically pray to individual saints. That does not mean they run screaming out of church when a litany is recited.

Personally, I often pray to St Anthony when I lose things, but often it is kind of tongue in cheek. I say ‘Tony, Tony, come around, [insert object here] has been lost and must be found.’ But I don’t honestly believe that St Anthony’s job in eternity is to run around looking for people’s lost items. It is a way of collecting myself and focusing on the lost item while realising that not all lost items are going to be found, but life is still good anyway.

I am not someone who prays often to saints myself, it just doesn’t resonate a lot with me. But that doesn’t mean I don’t respect people who do, or think that it has value for them. It does.

But there is just no reason to be dogmatic about something that is really more of a personal devotion. I know communities of nuns who are devoted to the Infant Jesus, or to his face, or to something else that helps them to feel close to God. Some people relate to the sacred heart or to the divine mercy etc etc etc. Personal devotions are just that - personal.

As for theology behind praying to saints, if the fiance is going to go through pre-marriage ed, then he will learn about it that way. He may never warm to it, but it shouldn’t be a stumbling block for marriage. At least not in my opinion.
 
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my wife says I dont even have to try to be cute. It just happens. But we are converts. Praying to saints does not come naturally to us either. But to say, its idol worship as a Catholic would mean your catechisis lacks.
 
I doubt the fiance has had much in the way of catechesis, and that will depend on the priest who does their pre-marriage ed. Seeing praying to saints as idol worship sounds like a very Protestant view, so perhaps the fiance had some exposure to Protestants growing up. The fact that the Catholic in this relationship doesn’t know how to explain it to her fiance isn’t really unusual. I have found many Catholics to be very ignorant of their own religion (I too was a convert, a long time ago and have spent many years studying about the faith). I am sure there are a huge number of Catholics who think the Immaculate Conception relates to the Virgin Birth. Being a faithful Catholic to many simply means attending Mass and following the rules, not studying the history of the religion and its doctrines. Perhaps through this relationship, she may find herself learning more about her own faith.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
Do they plug their ears if they hear a litany of saints at Mass? I suppose there are Catholics that don’t pray to Mary etc. Or Catholics that when it was mandated refused to say the St Michael’s prayer at Mass. But it would not be the norm.
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We have one on these forums - or at least had.

My own view if assigned as a penance or at Mass it needs to be done. Otherwise devotion to Saints is optional.
 
In my opinion, the argument that praying for the intercession of the saints is optional misses the forest for the trees. It’s not a matter of which aspect of Catholic faith the fiance is struggling with. Nor is it simply a matter of him not agreeing with it personally but allowing the OP to continue on.

This is a matter of the non-Catholic party saying “sure, you can raise the future kids Catholic but they can’t do certain Catholic things”. Replace prayer to the saints with taking the Eucharist, going to confession, go to Mass every Sunday, etc. Is it still ok for him to place those restrictions on their future children?

I’m not saying that the OP can’t marry him. But if she does do so and actually wants to raise her children Catholic, she’s going to have to be willing to learn to defend the faith and potentially have these same or similar arguments many times over the years.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
I completely agree. Either God would want people to pray for saints or he doesn’t. The trick is no one can say for certain which is the case.
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Huh? If you’re a practicing Catholic you can say for certain that God, through his Church, absolutely approves and encourages the practice of asking the intercession of saints.

This is not a case where the OP’s boyfriend might possibly be right in his view. He is most definitely wrong. The OP presumably knows he is wrong.

The question is whether she can still respect his view, wrong as it is, and he can respect her view, which is the correct one, so they can get along and have a decent marriage.

A Catholic doesn’t go into a mixed marriage saying, “Well, we don’t know if God really might favor my non-Catholic spouse’s view on a lot of these faith matters.” A Catholic who thinks that way is in danger of losing their own faith and should absolutely not be going into a mixed marriage. You don’t marry outside the faith unless you yourself are so firmly rooted in it that your spouse is not going to lead you astray.
 
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jlc2k2 said:
This is a matter of the non-Catholic party saying “sure, you can raise the future kids Catholic but they can’t do certain Catholic things”. Replace prayer to the saints with taking the Eucharist, going to confession, go to Mass every Sunday, etc. Is it still ok for him to place those restrictions on their future children?
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I don’t see these things as optional.

I agree that spouses shouldn’t tell each other how to live their faith but I do think that it may be reasonable for a parent to say fine if you want to do that but I’d rather the children didn’t if it is not something mandated by the faith.
 
I’ve been in a “mixed” marriage for over 15 years now. We’ve had our ups and downs like any couple, but most of the time it isn’t anything to do with faith.

From my experience, Catholic/non-Catholic marriages work on the premise that A) you both respect each other, and their faith background and B) that neither of you enter the marriage expecting the other to convert. I know one line you have is that you worry if it’s OK if he never converts…why wouldn’t it be? I don’t plan on converting, my wife doesn’t expect me to and never pressures me. It’s all about respect and entering the marriage not expecting each other to convert just for the other person.
 
I can say for certain, because of the teaching of the Church.

Thing is, there are far more things that will come up aside from intercessors.

What happens when it is time to baptize the newborn infant? What about going to Mass on Holy Days of Obligation (EVEN Christmas when it comes on Monday and you just WENT to Mass on Sunday, you cannot do a 2-for-1, there are two distinct obligations).

There are a thousand things that need to be discussed and decided before marriage, these are vital things, not compromising on the color of the living room paint.
 
Everything you said is spot on, & that’s the goal to figure things out before we get married. I love him and he’s amazing, my goal isn’t to break up with him bc of something like this. He’s not telling me what religion I need to be. He’s open to a lot just doesn’t agree with me with everything, just like I don’t agree with him. I guess I was looking for ways to debat or prove my point…but I suppose there’s no real way of knowing who is right and who is wrong until we die. I’m happy I found a man that loves Jesus Christ & I’ll take that as a win. I understand it would be easier to marry a catholic man and that’s probably what my family would prefer but I’m determined to make the relationship work out.
 
He would be okay with this, we have discussed this bc it’s important to me & of course my catholic family. He’s also fine with me practicing my religion just doesn’t agree with everything based on the KJV bible and he reads. (To answer from some of the comments above)
 
Lucy, like you’ve been saying, you and your guy have far more similarities than difference when it comes to religion. I feel confident that you and he can work it out. I offer you nothing but the best wishes to make that happen!

One silver lining on all this is that you two are not going into this part of your relationship blind. A lot of folks close to married or recently married don’t comprehend the challenges that can come along and make marriage something that needs to be tended to like a garden before it can really grow.
 
Thank you for taking the time to respond and share your opinion. It’s really helpful and up lifting, & means more than you know. We want to talk about these things before we tie the knot and are suddenly shocked about our differences. Also, plan & work our the kinks as much as possible. Thanks again, God bless
 
How about just be human, if you take away all the religious crap and iconography and you two live good lives and raise good children and teach them well but have no religion, would that matter? Is living a good life enough to be a good person?
 
One of the links posted early in the thread mentioned Revelations 5, which contains the vision of the souls under the altar crying out to God on behalf of the Church on earth undergoing persecution…and God answers them! That should put a rest to the myth that the dead cannot pray for us.

Another thing: have the two of you discussed artificial birth control? Is he willing to abide by the Church’s guidelines on what is an is not OK sexual activity? If he is not, he could potentially lead you into mortal sin. (If this has been mentioned in the thread, please forgive me).
Lucy23 said:
I understand it would be easier to marry a catholic man and that’s probably what my family would prefer but I’m determined to make the relationship work out.
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Well, with all the good Catholic men posting about how difficult it is to find a good Catholic wife, maybe this is something you should keep in the back of your mind…
 
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