Not Offering the Cup

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BanksOfTheTiber

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But I’m curious. And I should have asked this MONTHS ago.

I’m not a Catholic. Close, but not just yet. I tuned into EWTN for the second or third time one day many months ago, and watched The Mass (and quickly learned that Father Francis Mary is someone whom I really enjoy), and something caught me off guard.

I know, 95% of you are going to point and laugh at my ignorance.
So be it. :o

When did the cup become unavailable to the laity? And why?
 
The offering of Communion under both species (host and cup) is optional at this time. There are many reasons a priest may decide to offer Communion only as the host. I believe this is the situation you observed on EWTN. In the US, it is more usual to have Communion under both species.

For many years prior to Vatican II, Communion under both species was not offered to the laity except for special occasions (ie weddings). This discipline was introduced many hundreds of years prior to combat a heresy that had developed which taught that if one received only one form, he/she wasn’t receive a complete Communion. Since Catholics believe that Jesus is fully present in each species, offering only one species made that clearer. That heresy is pretty much gone now so there is no theological reason to have only the host. There are many practical reasons, however.
 
For many years prior to Vatican II, Communion was not offered to the laity except for special occasions (ie weddings).
I think Corki meant to say “For many years prior to Vatican II, Communion was not offered *under both species *to the laity except for special occasions (ie weddings).”
 
I think Corki meant to say “For many years prior to Vatican II, Communion was not offered *under both species *to the laity except for special occasions (ie weddings).”
Thanks, and just in time for me to still edit it. 🙂
 
I think Corki meant to say “For many years prior to Vatican II, Communion was not offered *under both species *to the laity except for special occasions (ie weddings).”
For many centuries prior to Vatican II , communion under both kinds wasn’t ever offered to the laity.

I suppose there might be a special circumstance out there where it might have been offered, but it was definitely not during weddings.

Communion during ordinary nuptial masses was bread-only for the faithful as well.
 
But I’m curious. And I should have asked this MONTHS ago.

I’m not a Catholic. Close, but not just yet. I tuned into EWTN for the second or third time one day many months ago, and watched The Mass (and quickly learned that Father Francis Mary is someone whom I really enjoy), and something caught me off guard.

I know, 95% of you are going to point and laugh at my ignorance.
So be it. :o

When did the cup become unavailable to the laity? And why?
The chalice with the Precious Blood becomes unavailable to the laity when the local Bishop determines that an outbreak of illness warrents it being withheld. This is optional for the laity at any Mass under normal circumstances.
 
The question still wasn’t answered.

Why is not the cup being offered? There has to be some reason for this new occurence on EWTN and some other churches.🤷 :confused:

Perhaps I really don’t want to know the answer, or I should re-post it on the traditional forum, but then I really wouldn’t want to read those answers.
 
The question still wasn’t answered.

Why is not the cup being offered? There has to be some reason for this new occurence on EWTN and some other churches.🤷 :confused:
I guess I don’t understand your question. Both species are offered at my Church every weekend, both at the Saturday evening vigil Mass and at all of the Sunday Masses. The Precious Blood is not offered during weekday Masses.

Or are you asking specifically about EWTN and the other churches that do not offer both? I do not know, so cannot answer that, but I’m sure it is up to Pastors or maybe the local Bishop.
 
When did the cup become unavailable to the laity? And why?
Why is not the cup being offered? There has to be some reason for this new occurence on EWTN…
Because there is no obligation to offer the Chalice to the laity. If you were to look at the Vatican II document on the liturgy, you’d see it offered a few suggested occasions for the concession of the Chalice; this list of occasions grew until, in 1975, it was this (from the 1975 GIRM, n. 242):
242. At the discretion of the Ordinary and after the prerequisite catechesis, communion from the chalice is permitted in the case of:
Code:
1. newly baptized adults at the Mass following their baptism; adults at the Mass at which they receive confirmation; baptized persons who are being received into the full communion of the Church;

2. the bride and bridegroom at their wedding Mass;

3. deacons at the Mass of their ordination;

4. an abbess at the Mass in which she is blessed; those consecrated to a life of virginity at the Mass of their consecration; professed religious, their relatives, friends, and the other members of their community at the Mass of first or perpetual vows or renewal of vows;

5. those who receive institution for a certain ministry at the Mass of their institution; lay missionary helpers at the Mass in which they publicly receive their mission; others at the Mass in which they receive an ecclesiastical mission;

6. the sick person and all present at the time viaticum is to be administered when Mass is lawfully celebrated in the sick person's home;

7. the deacon and ministers who exercise their office at Mass;

8. when there is a concelebration, in the case of:

    a. all who exercise a liturgical function at this concelebration and also all seminarians present;

    b. in their churches or oratories, all members of institutes professing the evangelical counsels and other societies whose members dedicate themselves to God by religious vows or by an offering or promise; also all those who reside in the houses of members of such institutes and societies;

9. priests who are present at major celebrations and are not able to celebrate or concelebrate;

10. all who make a retreat at a Mass in which they actively participate and which is specially celebrated for the group; also all who take part in the meeting of any pastoral body at a Mass the celebrate as a group;

11. those listed in nos. 2 and 4, at Masses celebrating their jubilees;

12. godparents, relatives, wife or husband, and lay catechists of newly baptized adults at the Mass of their initiation;

13. relatives, friends, and special benefactors who take part in the Mass of a newly ordained priest;

14. members of communities at the conventual or community Mass, in accord with the provisions of this Instruction no. 76.
Further, the conferences of bishops have the power to decide to what extent and under what considerations and conditions Ordinaries may allow communion under both kinds in other instances that are of special significance in the spiritual life of any community or group of the faithful.

Within such limits, Ordinaries may designate the particular instances, but on condition that they grant permission not indiscriminately but for clearly defined celebrations and that they point out matters for caution. They are also to exclude occasions when there will be a large number of communicants. The groups receiving this permission must also be specific, well-ordered, and homogeneous.
However, the US Bishops made this addition to the GIRM for the US:
15. other members of the faithful present on the special occasions enumerated in no. 242 of the “General Instruction”;
  1. at funeral Masses and at Masses for a special family observance;
  2. at Masses on days of special religious or civil significance for the people of the United States;
  3. at Masses on Holy Thursday and at the Mass of the Easter Vigil, the norms of the instruction of June 29, 1970, being observed;
  4. at weekday Masses.
    And then, in 1978, the US Bishops “further extended the occasions on which Holy Communion under both kinds might be given when it approved the motion that Holy Communion may be given under both kinds to the faithful at Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation if, in the judgment of the ordinary, Communion may be given in an orderly and reverent manner.” (source)
That sounds to me like they went beyond the permission granted to them (as stated in GIRM 242). If you pool all the occasions together (weekday and Sunday and holyday Masses), you get what amounts to indiscriminate permission.

Nowadays, the bishops can let parish pastors make the decisions instead; it’s still not supposed to be offered when there is a large number of people, or it’s difficult to determine how much wine needs to be prepared (because all of the Precious Blood must be consumed), and a couple other issues… but those are generally ignored. See the Los Angeles Cathedral for examples of that.

So, why don’t the laity get offered the Chalice on EWTN Masses? Because the pastor decided against it. I’m sure all the faithful there know they’re not actually being deprived of anything, because of the doctrine of concomitance (that Communion under one species contains the whole of Jesus). If and when the Chalice is conceded to the laity at an EWTN Mass, there will probably be a rather significant reason.

Now that both species are offered so frequently, I dare say people think it’s their right to receive under both species, and that Communion is incomplete unless it’s under both forms. Concomitance needs to be preached to them.
 
The question still wasn’t answered.

Why is not the cup being offered? There has to be some reason for this new occurence on EWTN and some other churches.🤷 :confused:

Perhaps I really don’t want to know the answer, or I should re-post it on the traditional forum, but then I really wouldn’t want to read those answers.
The cup not being offered isn’t a new thing at all - for the best part of 1,000 years the cup was almost never offered to the laity.

As for WHY not - well, that’s been covered in a previous post. It’s because we believe that the host alone is sufficient and complete, and not offering the cup makes that point clear to the laity (so it’s done to educate them) as well as avoiding possible transmission of illness and spills (which we take very seriously and try to prevent as much as possible, believing as we do in the Real Presence)
 
Communion under one kind in the West originally began with the Chalice not so much withheld from the laity, as AVOIDED by them.

It’s a long story, but the Chalice was “witheld” from even the Pope when he was not celebrating but mere communicating.

It’s a too complex topic for computer boards.
 
Although the heresy is no longer “active,” there is many, many a Catholic that thinks you need both to receive Jesus.

I was at a conference this past summer and the line I was in ran out of the Consecrated “Wine.” I was fine with it, and so was the person in front of me (a former seminarian), but the person behind us was quite upset.

It’s quite possible you’ll see something of a return to the practice of only the priest receiving from the chalice to reinforce the fact that Jesus is totally present in both species.

I think part of the reason some parishes are using the Host only also for some of the following reasons:

*Less involvement of EMHC’s-and thus, less to go wrong.

*It saves a little bit of time. No “second” line forms, and communion is finished faster. Plus there isn’t the need to purify as many items-in this day and age of priests possibly having three Masses in four hours, all across town, that’s nothing to sneeze at.

*It saves money-do not have to buy as much Altar Wine if only the priest(s)/deacon is receiving.

FWIW, I don’t have a problem with Host only. And this is an EMHC talking.
 
Why is it that at some masses the Eucharistic Ministers will present both the Body and the Blood of Christ and at some masses they will only present the Body of Christ. Many people say that it is dangerous because people may be sick and germs will be spread, but that sounds completely irrelevant to me. No one is going to get sick from receiving the blood of Jesus. Can someone please elaborate this for me.
 
Why is it that at some masses the Eucharistic Ministers will present both the Body and the Blood of Christ and at some masses they will only present the Body of Christ. Many people say that it is dangerous because people may be sick and germs will be spread, but that sounds completely irrelevant to me. No one is going to get sick from receiving the blood of Jesus. Can someone please elaborate this for me.
The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fully and equally present under both forms – one of wine and one of bread.

The Church encourages (but does not mandate) distribution under both forms due to the improved sign value. Sometimes this is not possible.

The germ concern is a big canard. The wiping of the chalice and the alcohol content does a pretty good job of keeping the Precious Blood germ-free…
 
Why is it that at some masses the Eucharistic Ministers will present both the Body and the Blood of Christ and at some masses they will only present the Body of Christ. Many people say that it is dangerous because people may be sick and germs will be spread, but that sounds completely irrelevant to me. No one is going to get sick from receiving the blood of Jesus. Can someone please elaborate this for me.
For the completion of the Sacrifice of the Mass, only the priest offering the Mass is required to receive Holy Communion under both forms. Either form can be offered to the laity, usually the Body of Christ, however in many parishes also the Blood of Christ is offered to the Laity. But this is not always required.
 
Nowadays said:
of the Precious Blood must be consumed), and a couple other issues… but those are generally ignored. See the Los Angeles Cathedral for examples of that.

So, why don’t the laity get offered the Chalice on EWTN Masses? Because the pastor decided against it.

Okay, what I’m getting from all these responses is that it’s because EWTN priests think that the rest of American parishes are abusing communion, so they’ll make a public stand against it by not offering the cup. Because otherwise there wouldn’t be a reason because they are small enough, with enough priests or religious, that they could easily offer the cup with no violations.

So they’re using their tv station as an alternative authority to the US Catholic bishops, who just don’t get things right?🤷

I realize I’m interpretting what you’ve written, reading between the lines. But is that the jist?
 
Because otherwise there wouldn’t be a reason because they are small enough, with enough priests or religious, that they could easily offer the cup with no violations.
This line of reasoning assumes that the default position is that the cup must be offered to the laity, and that there must be some special reason to not offer it. But the practice of offering both species started out as an exception to the rule, and the exceptions just kept getting bigger and bigger.

So the question is, what are the advantages of offering the chalice to the laity? Do they outweigh the disadvantages? And were Catholics that only received the Host for hundreds of years missing out on something?
 
Okay, what I’m getting from all these responses is that it’s because EWTN priests think that the rest of American parishes are abusing communion, so they’ll make a public stand against it by not offering the cup. Because otherwise there wouldn’t be a reason because they are small enough, with enough priests or religious, that they could easily offer the cup with no violations.

So they’re using their tv station as an alternative authority to the US Catholic bishops, who just don’t get things right?🤷

I realize I’m interpretting what you’ve written, reading between the lines. But is that the jist?
No.

You have no way of knowing what is the reasoning behind the priest’s (EWTN or other) decision to offer Communion under only one species at any given Mass.

The USCCB has not ever mandated Communion under both species so noone is operating under any “alternate authority”. Maybe it is just a preference and not something more.

Communion under one species for the faithful is ALWAYS allowed. Communion under both species is OFTEN allowed but permission does not equal mandate.

P.S. EWTN is a pilgrimage site and it could just be that it is hard to determine ahead of time how much wine to consecrate. That, by itself, is a valid reason to offer only the host to the faithful.
 
… EWTN priests think that the rest of American parishes are abusing communion, so they’ll make a public stand against it by not offering the cup.
I think that assumes that the default position is that the cup should be offered to the laity, and that there must be some special reason to not offer it. But the practice of offering both species started out as an exception to the rule, and the exceptions just kept getting bigger and bigger.
I agree with Brendan on this one. Regardless of who’s watching them, the EWTN priests are simply being more conservative about Communion. Weekday Masses seem to me to be outside the original purview of V2’s concession (and were not mentioned in the universal 1975 GIRM) and, quite honestly, seem to be a violation of the principle that the permission not be indiscriminate but be for clearly defined celebrations. I would even suggest that every Sunday isn’t necessary (but it’s really not up to me, so it’s just wasted breath it seems).

While EWTN doesn’t have this problem, Communion under both kinds leads to a lot of abuses in many other parishes.
 
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