Not only Forgive, but Reconcile?

[PelagiathePenit]

Is this true? Why? I unfortunately came across this article.
cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/Discipleship/Beyond_Forgiveness_to_Reconciliation.aspx

Mother Teresa Quotes

We forget that forgiveness is greater than revenge. People make mistakes.
We are allowed to make mistakes. But the actions we take while in a rage will haunt us forever.

Pause and ponder. Think before you act. Be patient. Forgive & forget. Love one and all.

 

[Nelka]

 

[Sirach2]

Is this true? Why? I unfortunately came across this article.
cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/Discipleship/Beyond_Forgiveness_to_Reconciliation.aspx

The link mentioned the parable of the prodigal son, but it was not correctly applying the lesson. The Father did not seek out the son and run after him to effect their reconciliation. He allowed the prodigal to experience the utter ruin of his bad choice. It was only after the son woke up and decided on his own to go back home that the Father restored him. Sometimes, we just have to let the offender “bottom out” rather than become an enabler keeping them in their wrong situation.

Another bad interpretation is “the elder son’s beef? He would hear nothing of reconciliation.” He was angry with his Father and extremely envious of his brother, because his father never lavished such blessings upon him, even though he was soooooo good! There may have been resentment toward the brother, also, but I think the parable points us more to his envy and anger toward the Father.

 

[glendab]

I generally as a rule don’t seek for wisdom in Protestant places. There is much more available in Catholic sources and doing so removes the possibility of being introduced to error which can easily be found in Protestant stuff. But thanks for sharing.

Forgiveness to me is essential in all our relationships. I think verbalizing this forgiveness daily is very important for healthy emotional make up. I think folks should say “I forgive you,” as often as they say “I love you,” to their loved ones. It should come naturally. I could ask you when was the last time you actually told someone who had offended you that it was okay, that you forgave them? These are healing words and the more often they are heard, the more often they heal. I like the soapbox on this very issue, but I’ll stop. Forgive me if I go too far.

Glenda

 

[Sirach2]

Forgiveness to me is essential in all our relationships. I think verbalizing this forgiveness daily is very important for healthy emotional make up. I think folks should say “I forgive you,” as often as they say “I love you,” to their loved ones. It should come naturally.

We need to reflect more deeply on Jesus’ words: If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. Here is an excellent article on the subject.

Notice Jesus DOES NOT say, “…it doesn’t matter if he repents or not, you HAVE to forgive him.” No, Jesus puts the requirement of “…if he REPENTS…” as a CONDITION of forgiveness.

 

[mountee]

This is an interesting, thought provoking thread, and I am going to have to spend a great deal of time meditating on these thoughts. But, I have to admit that The article posted in Sirach2’s second post fits into what I have always believed to be true. I would urge anyone reading this thread to read the article and see what you think.

 

[Sirach2]

This is an interesting, thought provoking thread, and I am going to have to spend a great deal of time meditating on these thoughts. But, I have to admit that The article posted in Sirach2’s second post fits into what I have always believed to be true. I would urge anyone reading this thread to read the article and see what you think.

Isn’t it true, Mountee, that our Church teaches that when we go to confession that we must have sorrow for our sins? Otherwise, our confession is invalid. So if God himself does not forgive our sins unless we repent, then isn’t the requirement the same with regard to those who sin against us?

Here’s a good reply from Ask An Apologist.
Forgiveness requires repentance (contrition). The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) teaches, “Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again” (CCC 1451).

Unwillingness to repent and accept God’s forgiveness is what Jesus was talking about when he referred to “blasphemy of the Spirit” (Mt 12:31-32). The Catechism explains, “By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love” (CCC 679).

The important thing for us is our internal willingness to forgive in order to free our souls from bondage to resentment, often breeding hatred for the offender, and lack of peace.

 

[Sirach2]

Haven’t we all asked many times, how do I know if I have truly forgiven an offense? In reading St. Faustina’s Diary, I recognized that I, too, have sometimes relied upon my feelings to indicate whether or not I have forgiven a person.

Quote:
1628 During Holy Mass, I saw Jesus stretched out on the Cross, and He said to me, My Pupil, have great love for those who cause you suffering. Do good to those who hate you.

I answered, “O my Master, You see very well that I feel no love for them, and that troubles me.” Jesus answered.It is not always within your power to control your feelings. You will recognize that you have love if**,** after having experienced annoyance and contradiction, you do not lose your peace, but pray for those who have made you suffer and wish them well."

 

[mountee]

Isn’t it true, Mountee, that our Church teaches that when we go to confession that we must have sorrow for our sins? Otherwise, our confession is invalid. So if God himself does not forgive our sins unless we repent, then isn’t the requirement the same with regard to those who sin against us?

Here’s a good reply from Ask An Apologist.
Forgiveness requires repentance (contrition). The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) teaches, “Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again” (CCC 1451).

Unwillingness to repent and accept God’s forgiveness is what Jesus was talking about when he referred to “blasphemy of the Spirit” (Mt 12:31-32). The Catechism explains, “By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love” (CCC 679).

The important thing for us is our internal willingness to forgive in order to free our souls from bondage to resentment, often breeding hatred for the offender, and lack of peace.

Thank you, this is very helpful insight, as usual with your responses!

 

[glendab]

Forgiveness isn’t just a feeling, it is an act of the will. Always keep in mind the fact that we are told by God that we will be forgiven in the same way we forgive others. :bigyikes: So, if you tend towards hanging onto things until huge resentments pile up and you eventually blow your top at triffles, then you need to forgive, not only all those annoying triffles, but yourself for holding on to the other stuff too. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. But my big thing is letting others know you have forgiven them. If I make it clearer, perhaps some here will understand that this simple act is what actually can do the work of the Spirit that comes to us in the Confessional after we’ve gone there. If I confess that I lost my temper with my sister because she did something I thought was wrong, I need to confess my lost temper but I also need to be reconciled to my sister. I can tell her I’m sorry for losing my temper with her, but if she keeps doing whatever it is that I thought was wrong, I might loose it again. I can say at that point I forgive her annoyance and ask that she forgive me for losing my temper. This kills two birds with one stone. We both begin thinking and healing and perhaps this is the entryway for the Spirit Who is with us in this regard because we brought the problem to Him in the Sacrament so He can heal us from the division sin causes. It gives Him the ability to act in ways we all need. This is one reason why I think we are so broken in many ways and the words of healing reconciliation are so foreign to us. This language of the heart needs speaking so it can act in our lives. Jesus seeks to heal us from sin and division but if we never use the words He gives us to do so, He cannot act in this way. It is that important.

Just imagine how it would feel for you if you confessed for say six months every Saturday in a row and Father never once used those healing words of absolution! That is what we do to each other when we withhold not only our forgiveness, but the words that give real peace to others: “I forgive you.” Say it often. It may surprise those in your lives who haven’t heard it from you before. There ya go! Forgive as you have been forgiven, but make sure you say so.

Glenda

 

[OneSheep]

Is this true? Why? I unfortunately came across this article.
cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/Discipleship/Beyond_Forgiveness_to_Reconciliation.aspx

Mother Teresa Quotes

We forget that forgiveness is greater than revenge. People make mistakes.
We are allowed to make mistakes. But the actions we take while in a rage will haunt us forever.

Pause and ponder. Think before you act. Be patient. Forgive & forget. Love one and all.

Hi PelagiathePenit (is “Pel” okay?)

I don’t think you have anything to regret about finding that article. The quotes from JPII are fabulous, and his embracing of the man who tried to kill him was a model for all of us. In addition, do you recall the case where the man went and killed a bunch of Amish children U.S.? They present another inspiration.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting
csmonitor.com/2007/1002/p09s02-coop.html

The community forgave, immediately, even though the killer showed no repentance

Indeed, Jesus forgave the unrepentant from the cross, we cannot forget that.

The article linked by Sirach 2 also has its merit. We are not called to let people walk all over us, and it is the inclination of our God-given nature not to forgive a person unless they repent. What was not mentioned in the article is this verse:

Mark 11:25

New International Version
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

In this verse, there is no call for conditional forgiveness. However, I think that repentance on the part of any sinner is very important. Forgiveness, in itself, is a repentance. If we hold onto a grudge, do we experience the holiness that we are called to embrace? No, we are enslaved by grudge-holding.

Once we forgive everyone we hold something against, as Mark 11:25 says, our Father forgives our sins.

But wait a minute! The mind says, doesn’t that mean that the Father’s forgiveness is conditional upon my forgiving others? No, this not the point, as explained to me once in a Catholic scripture study. God always forgives, like the prodigal son’s father, but if one does not forgive everyone we hold something against, then we will not experience, in a real way, the forgiveness of Abba. As long as we do not forgive others, we will project that God does not forgive us. When we hold a grudge, we do not have holiness (wholeness), we have a discontinuity, a thorn in our side. Non-forgiveness is not an aspect of the “eternal life” toward which Jesus beckons us.

A person who waits for another to repent may have to wait a lifetime. What good is that? Withholding forgiveness did not help the sinner repent, and it did not do any good for the spiritual health of the grudge-holder!

God Bless your day!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

A person who waits for another to repent may have to wait a lifetime. What good is that? Withholding forgiveness did not help the sinner repent, and it did not do any good for the spiritual health of the grudge-holder!

I always read threads about forgiveness and time after time the same questions arise: Are we supposed to feel something when we forgive? How do we know we have really forgiven? What is the offending party expected to do? Etc.

I think it is obvious that nobody really knows, that it is difficult to explain what it all really means and how forgiveness works. The best I have come up with is that we forgive when we desire to do so even if we don’t feel all fluffy and lovely inside, when we don’t hate the person and don’t seek revenge, and don’t expect apologies and visible signs of repentance from the person who hurt us. The rest is probably not in our hands and only God can deal with it.

I hope I have forgiven certain things when it comes to one person in my life, but reconciliation is pretty much out of the question because I have a healthy survival instinct. I hope God understands and knows what is going on here. If I’m in the wrong and have not forgiven properly, I put my hope in His mercy. That’s my approach to this question.

 

[OneSheep]

I always read threads about forgiveness and time after time the same questions arise: Are we supposed to feel something when we forgive? How do we know we have really forgiven? What is the offending party expected to do? Etc.

I think it is obvious that nobody really knows, that it is difficult to explain what it all really means and how forgiveness works. The best I have come up with is that we forgive when we desire to do so even if we don’t feel all fluffy and lovely inside, when we don’t hate the person and don’t seek revenge, and don’t expect apologies and visible signs of repentance from the person who hurt us. The rest is probably not in our hands and only God can deal with it.

Hi C.M.,

To me, forgiveness happens when I understand to the point of “If I were in that person’s shoes, given what they know, I could have done the same thing.” I know when I have forgiven when I no longer feel compelled to punish or desire punishment for the person in any way. It has happened when I no longer hold anything against the person. Yes, I feel “one” again, I can see eye to eye in a figurative sense, even if it cannot happen in a literal sense. Sometimes it involves painfully admitting that I had triggered a negative response from the person who has sinned against me.

I hope I have forgiven certain things when it comes to one person in my life, but reconciliation is pretty much out of the question because I have a healthy survival instinct. I hope God understands and knows what is going on here. If I’m in the wrong and have not forgiven properly, I put my hope in His mercy. That’s my approach to this question.

I agree that in some situations face-to-face reconciliation is to be avoided. However, the reconciliation can still happen within, do you agree? We can come to an understanding about the person and their acts. We can pray for him, we can embrace the trespasser in a spiritual way, right?

God Bless

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I agree that in some situations face-to-face reconciliation is to be avoided. However, the reconciliation can still happen within, do you agree? We can come to an understanding about the person and their acts. We can pray for him, we can embrace the trespasser in a spiritual way, right?

God Bless

I agree.

 

[IrishAm]

I agree that in some situations face-to-face reconciliation is to be avoided. However, the reconciliation can still happen within, do you agree? We can come to an understanding about the person and their acts. We can pray for him, we can embrace the trespasser in a spiritual way, right?

Good point. And much more diplomatic than my usual answer, “I said I forgave them, I didn’t say I had a lobotomy.”

 

[glendab]

Mark 11:25

New International Version
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

In this verse, there is no call for conditional forgiveness…
Once we forgive everyone we hold something against, as Mark 11:25 says, our Father forgives our sins.

But wait a minute! The mind says, doesn’t that mean that the Father’s forgiveness is conditional upon my forgiving others? No, this not the point, as explained to me once in a Catholic scripture study. God always forgives,…)

You are contradicting yourself and being fond of discussing things conditional and unconditional with you, I thought I’d point that out. Yes, OneSheep, it is true. God did not mislead you or misspeak - if you don’t forgive others sins against you, your Heavenly Father won’t forgive you your sins. That’s another big condition on things eternal.

Glenda

P.S. Thanks for the prayers. Surgery is over and stitches out and I’m up and running again.

 

[OneSheep]

You are contradicting yourself and being fond of discussing things conditional and unconditional with you, I thought I’d point that out. Yes, OneSheep, it is true. God did not mislead you or misspeak - if you don’t forgive others sins against you, your Heavenly Father won’t forgive you your sins. That’s another big condition on things eternal.

Glenda

P.S. Thanks for the prayers. Surgery is over and stitches out and I’m up and running again.

Hi Glenda, I’m glad you are better, yay!

The priest who explained this to us said that God always forgives, but we will not experience the reality of that forgiveness until we forgive all others. As long as we withhold forgiveness from someone, for any reason, we will project that God also withholds forgiveness from us. And as long as we make this projection, we will live not in love, but live in insecurity, anxiety, (and, I might add, scrupulosity and superstition). These are not experiences of God’s love or eternal life.

As usual, though, I say that if it takes the threat of non-forgiveness from God in order to motivate one to forgive, that is great! Non-forgiveness is slavery. The conditionally-loving depiction of God will work itself out later, hopefully.

God Bless, and may your healing continue.