Not Recycling - Mortal or Venial Sin?

[Yerusalyim]

Why does the concern you?

It concerns me because of the issue of scrupulicity. If one has gotten to the point in life where whether not recycling is a sin…a salud…good for you…

I think there’s a big difference between how people from different areas and lifestyles view recycling

Which only shows to go ya that this issue isn’t really one of sin, if something is a sin, then it’s a sin. The issue of recycling is still CLEARLY debatable.

I live in Germany, recycling is the law…if I intentionally don’t recycle it’s a sin NOT because I didn’t recycle, but because I intentionally broke the Law. When I’m stateside I recycle when I can because I think it’s good…but NOT recycling when it’s not required isn’t objectively a sin.

I was kind of hoping people would say that yes, this can be a serious sin, because it would show that the church is keeping up with the issues of today.

Morality is NOT relative.

 

[Luke_S]

It concerns me because of the issue of scrupulicity. If one has gotten to the point in life where whether not recycling is a sin…a salud…good for you…

Which only shows to go ya that this issue isn’t really one of sin, if something is a sin, then it’s a sin. The issue of recycling is still CLEARLY debatable.

I live in Germany, recycling is the law…if I intentionally don’t recycle it’s a sin NOT because I didn’t recycle, but because I intentionally broke the Law. When I’m stateside I recycle when I can because I think it’s good…but NOT recycling when it’s not required isn’t objectively a sin.

Morality is NOT relative.

YES! Great post, you have written my thoughts.

 

[Luke_S]

And we know that missing Sunday mass once is a mortal sin.

Luke S: Show me in scripture or the catechism where it says this.

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

Grave sin is not equivelant with mortal sin. A sin could be grave, but you could not fully know the nature of it’s seriousness (my guess is, umm… 99% of the Catholics who don’t fullfill their Sunday obligations, and 100% of noncatholics). It could be grave, but not deliberate. Perhaps you missed mass because of daylight savings time and you forgot to change your clock (happened to me once). You can’t say that in every circumstance and for every person, missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin.

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

 

[Sir_Knight]

Those who reach the age of reason are expected to have a properly developed conscious so ignorance is no excuse and missing Sunday mass without a valid reason IS a mortal sin.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Those who reach the age of reason are expected to have a properly developed conscious so ignorance is no excuse and missing Sunday mass without a valid reason IS a mortal sin.

Well forgive me for being smart, but anyone who ‘expects’ that most catholics have a fully and properly developed conscience is not very aware of the real life situation

But I suspect you mean ‘expected’ in the sense that it’s required of them. But what if they don’t know or believe that it’s required? If they don’t believe that God requires them to read and accept the catechism, and therefore don’t believe that missing sunday mass is a grave sin, are they still culpable?
Luke S:

Grave sin is not equivelant with mortal sin

Point taken Luke S, I should have been more specific. I should have asked if it’s a grave sin or serious sin, not mortal.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Morality is NOT relative.

Of course it’s not relative to the beliefs of society, but certainly a specific action that would be acceptable in one situation might not be acceptable in another. As situations change, the church gives us advice on how to apply moral principles to the situation.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Well forgive me for being smart, but anyone who ‘expects’ that most catholics have a fully and properly developed conscience is not very aware of the real life situation

But I suspect you mean ‘expected’ in the sense that it’s required of them. But what if they don’t know or believe that it’s required? If they don’t believe that God requires them to read and accept the catechism, and therefore don’t believe that missing sunday mass is a grave sin, are they still culpable?

Not knowing and not believing are two different things and those two conditions MAY reduce their culpability but that is between them and God. Remember, Jesus promised that whatever the church bounds on earth WILL BE bound in heaven. And the church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit has declared that missing mass on Sunday without a valid reason is a mortal sin.

 

[Luke_S]

And the church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit has declared that missing mass on Sunday without a valid reason is a mortal sin.

You are wrong, we just looked at that Sir Knight, here is what the Catechism says:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with **full knowledge ****and **deliberate consent.” (emphasis added)

The catechism states that missing mass is a grave (serious) sin, not a mortal sin. Seriousness is just one of the three conditions that have to be met in order for a sin to be mortal, thus you cannot say of everyone that missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. It is still possible (and highly likely) that someone can miss mass on Sunday without a valid reason and not have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin, thus it would not qualify as a mortal sin.

Haven’t you been following the discussion? Perhaps you could provide another reference to your assertion above? Did the pope every declare this from the chair of St. Peter? Is it in scripture? Let’s see your evidence that the church teaches this.

 

[Luke_S]

Point taken Luke S, I should have been more specific. I should have asked if it’s a grave sin or serious sin, not mortal.

Thank’s for your honesty in conceeding the point.

 

[Luke_S]

Those who reach the age of reason are expected to have a properly developed conscious so ignorance is no excuse and missing Sunday mass without a valid reason IS a mortal sin.

Wrong again. According to the catechism, ignorance is an excuse in determining whether a particular sin is mortal or not:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

Ignorance is not having full knowledge about something, thus ignorance excuses you from mortal sin.

 

[Sir_Knight]

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: * whoever neglects to have or do what he ought to have or do, commits a sin of omission. Wherefore through negligence, ignorance of what one is bound to know, is a sin; whereas it is not imputed as a sin to man, if he fails to know what he is unable to know. Consequently ignorance of such like things is called “invincible,” because it cannot be overcome by study. For this reason such like ignorance, not being voluntary, since it is not in our power to be rid of it, is not a sin: wherefore it is evident that no invincible ignorance is a sin. On the other hand, vincible ignorance is a sin, if it be about matters one is bound to know; but not, if it be about things one is not bound to know. (ST, IIa, 76, 2)

• Affected ignorance does not excuse from guilt, but seems, rather, to aggravate it: for it shows that a man is so strongly attached to sin that he wishes to incur ignorance lest he avoid sinning. (ST, III, 47, 5)

 

[Sir_Knight]

In the encyclical, Acerbo Nimis, Pope Saint Pius X quoted his predecessor, Pope Benedict XIV as saying that ignorance was the reason for the damnation of the greater number of those who are lost:

“And so, Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV had just cause to write: ‘we declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect’." (Acerbo Nimis, April 15, 1905)

 

[Neil_Anthony]

So how come you can go to mass for years and years and never once haer that missing mass, birth control, or sex before marriage are tickets to hell?

If you saw someone about to get hit by a car, you’d say something. Why doesn’t the priest say anything about his flock all bound for hell?

In the encyclical, Acerbo Nimis, Pope Saint Pius X quoted his predecessor, Pope Benedict XIV as saying that ignorance was the reason for the damnation of the greater number of those who are lost:

“And so, Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV had just cause to write: ‘we declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect’." (Acerbo Nimis, April 15, 1905)

 

[Sir_Knight]

That’s one of the things priests will be held accountable for – for failing to properly shepard the flock assigned to their care.

The writings of Saint Chrysostom state: “The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of priests and bishops.”

 

[Luke_S]

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: * whoever neglects to have or do what he ought to have or do, commits a sin of omission. Wherefore through negligence, ignorance of what one is bound to know, is a sin; whereas it is not imputed as a sin to man, if he fails to know what he is unable to know. Consequently ignorance of such like things is called “invincible,” because it cannot be overcome by study. For this reason such like ignorance, not being voluntary, since it is not in our power to be rid of it, is not a sin: wherefore it is evident that no invincible ignorance is a sin. On the other hand, vincible ignorance is a sin, if it be about matters one is bound to know; but not, if it be about things one is not bound to know. (ST, IIa, 76, 2)

• Affected ignorance does not excuse from guilt, but seems, rather, to aggravate it: for it shows that a man is so strongly attached to sin that he wishes to incur ignorance lest he avoid sinning. (ST, III, 47, 5)

You are making a strawman argument Sir Knight. Deal with the question at hand please. Vincible ignorance (that which we can know but choose not to) is a sin as St. Thomas argues. This is not under question.

The question is, is missing mass a mortal sin? It is a sin, of course, we know this much from the catechism already (a serious sin). However, ignorance, whether vincible or not, is implied when someone does not have “full knowledge” of something. This is the requirement for a mortal sin, which ignorance excuses. You may be right that because of ignorance man is more attached to his sin, however such sin is still not considered mortal according to the church. You have failed to provide doctrinal evidence at all to support your assertion that the church teaches missing mass is a mortal sin, and the evidence you have provided (although from a good source), does not answer the question. Try again.

 

[Luke_S]

That’s one of the things priests will be held accountable for – for failing to properly shepard the flock assigned to their care.

The writings of Saint Chrysostom state: “The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of priests and bishops.”

And are you going to be held accountable for misrepresenting the church? You have yet to prove that missing mass is necessarily a mortal sin, taught as such by the church, and you have yet to admit your fault.

 

[Luke_S]

In the encyclical, Acerbo Nimis, Pope Saint Pius X quoted his predecessor, Pope Benedict XIV as saying that ignorance was the reason for the damnation of the greater number of those who are lost:

“And so, Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV had just cause to write: ‘we declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect’." (Acerbo Nimis, April 15, 1905)

This evidence is irrelevant to the question at hand. For one, there is no definition from this source of what BXIV means by “mysteries of faith.” Perhaps he is referring to the Trinity, The Virgin Birth, etc. There is absolutely no evidence that he is referring to mass attendance here, it seems more likely he is referring to one of my examples.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

You are wrong, we just looked at that Sir Knight, here is what the Catechism says:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with **full knowledge ****and **deliberate consent.” (emphasis added)

The catechism states that missing mass is a grave (serious) sin, not a mortal sin.

A grave sin is a mortal sin. Two words that mean the same thing.

Missing mass on Sunday without a good reason is an objective mortal sins. It is probably also a subjective mortal sin since Catholics should know that missing Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. We have an obligation to know the basics of our faith; and missing Mass on Sunday is very baisc. I doubt their ignorance over such a basic teaching of the faith would be excusable through invincible ignorance.

The only way I can think of that missing Mass on Sunday would not be a subjective mortal sin is if the person truly forgot it was Sunday. That would probably be excusable.

 

[Luke_S]

A grave sin is a mortal sin. Two words that mean the same thing.

I’d rather believe the Catechism of the Catholic church than you; thanks though:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is **also committed with full knowledge **and deliberate consent.”

 

[Sir_Knight]

You are making a strawman argument Sir Knight. Deal with the question at hand please. Vincible ignorance (that which we can know but choose not to) is a sin as St. Thomas argues. This is not under question.

The question is, is missing mass a mortal sin? It is a sin, of course, we know this much from the catechism already (a serious sin). However, ignorance, whether vincible or not, is implied when someone does not have “full knowledge” of something. This is the requirement for a mortal sin, which ignorance excuses. You may be right that because of ignorance man is more attached to his sin, however such sin is still not considered mortal according to the church. You have failed to provide doctrinal evidence at all to support your assertion that the church teaches missing mass is a mortal sin, and the evidence you have provided (although from a good source), does not answer the question. Try again.

Anyone who has been taught to make their first communion (if that teaching was accurate) has been taught that missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin.

You are basicly arguing that if somebody doesn’t believe a teaching of the church, they are not guilty of mortal sin if they break that teaching. Church history proves you wrong. The protestants that broke from the Catholic faith did so because they did not believe church teaching. Did the church declare them to be free of sin? No! Many of them were excommunicated.

Try again.

And are you going to be held accountable for misrepresenting the church? You have yet to prove that missing mass is necessarily a mortal sin, taught as such by the church, and you have yet to admit your fault.

I wasn’t given a flock to shepard and I am not misrepresenting any church teaching. Even my daughter’s second grade religion book cleary states that missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. And, it has a bishop’s imprint which states that there is nothing in it that is contrary to church teaching.

Will you be held accountable when some reads your posts and decides to start missing mass on Sunday?

This evidence is irrelevant to the question at hand. For one, there is no definition from this source of what BXIV means by “mysteries of faith.” Perhaps he is referring to the Trinity, The Virgin Birth, etc. There is absolutely no evidence that he is referring to mass attendance here, it seems more likely he is referring to one of my examples.

It could very well be but that doesn’t change his conclusions … “ignorance does not excuse from guilt, but seems, rather, to aggravate it: for it shows that a man is so strongly attached to sin that he wishes to incur ignorance lest he avoid sinning” … one is REQUIRED to know and BELIEVE what their faith teaches.

A grave sin is a mortal sin. Two words that mean the same thing.

Missing mass on Sunday without a good reason is an objective mortal sins. It is probably also a subjective mortal sin since Catholics should know that missing Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. We have an obligation to know the basics of our faith; and missing Mass on Sunday is very baisc. I doubt their ignorance over such a basic teaching of the faith would be excusable through invincible ignorance.

The only way I can think of that missing Mass on Sunday would not be a subjective mortal sin is if the person truly forgot it was Sunday. That would probably be excusable.

+1

I’d rather believe the Catechism of the Catholic church than you; thanks though:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is **also committed with full knowledge **and deliberate consent.”

No one is arguing that point. What we are saying that those that reach the age of reason (having made their first confession & communion) are required to to know and believe what their faith teaches – missing mass on Sunday without valid cause IS a mortal sin, abortion IS a mortal sin, birth control IS a mortal sin, etc. Ignorance is NOT an excuse.

While we’re at it, notice the the CCC does not even call abortion a “mortal” sin but a “grave” offense. Are you going to argue that abortion is not a MORTAL sin because the CCC does not specifically call it a “mortal” sin?