Not Sure About Annulments

[Seatuck]

I’m not convinced by her story that the husband’s first marriage was annulled. The story line she gave was that the husband was married the first time outside of the Church and the church basically, said it wasn’t a real marriage because it wasn’t performed in the Catholic church. My advice, if it’s not in writing then you may be dealing w/ a whole different mess. She didn’t say anything about an annullment on his side.

The way she phrased it is very common. It is a documentary case . I don’t thing the person gets any paperwork back. The priest usually just handles everything. Priests don’t always take the time to instruct and people don’t always take the time to ask.

 

[Sina]

The OP stated in one of her longer threads

“Coming from a divorced situation myself, I picked up on many things and dynamics with his interaction with his children that most people would never think to address”

I figured it meant she was divorced too? Or else her parents had been divorced. Who knows!

 

[mazie]

Sorry for the “T M I” everyone. I have never forum’ed before this. Sorry for putting my foot in my mouth, once again (or on the keyboard?). Here are some clarifications.
This is my first marriage. I am 29 years old. Even when divorced parents are amicable, divorce is very hard to grow up in. It alters you more than you realize, I think. My folks’ situation wasn’t awful, but wasn’t great! Hence my comment.
I came to the forum b/c this is the biggest group of informed Catholics I know. Skimming out many legit details here, we just don’t feel comfortable talking to our parish priest, who married us and handled the paperwork re: making sure we were ok to marry per his 1st marriage. The advice to check into that paperwork is not something I’d thought about. I’ve never seen any of his papers on it if they exist, as we were only dating at the time and didn’t think about it ever being an issue. Knowing our priest is one that likes to push and bend liturgical rules and doctrine, well, I will check and see, regardless of how our marriage ends up.

I didn’t know who else to talk to as most of my friends are also my husband’s friends and I don’t think that’s fair to him. I have some from h.s./college that I have talked to, most of whom are nonpracticing Catholics, however, or nonCath., so I wanted a Catholic lens. Talking to parents is bad news in marriage as they always have a bias and it’s not fair to your spouse, much as I want to talk to my mom about this.
Regarding communication, my husband and I have had many numerous constructive talks that seemed both very deep and very encouraging at the time but I found out quickly it was smoke and mirrors. Maybe counseling will help, maybe not. I am doubtful at this point, which is why I posted here for advice.
Thanks for the previous post re: calling the diocese for a counselor referral. Trying to come up with a priest on my own that we would both be comfortable talking to is kind of a daunting task.

Thanks So Much, You Guys; the advice and counsel has been very very helpful.

Best,

Mazie

 

[bobzills]

Please be aware that there really is nothing that allows “annulment of a valid” marriage. A decree of nullity is a declaration that a given marriage, although appearing and presumed valid, was, in fact invalid from the beginning. This requires a tribunal process. .

That of course is the theory. The real fact is that just about any marriage in the USA can be annulled today. There were a total of about 9 annulments given in the USA in the year 1930. Recently however, the number of annulments has run higher than 60,000 in some years. That’s a pretty big increae, is it not ? You go from 9 per year to 60,000 per year? This is due to the fact that according to some Catholic sources, the tribunals are granting annulments for the most trivial of reasons. These are reasons which would not have been allowed in the past. What it amounts to is that annulments are really just a different was of looking at divorce for Catholics. After having been married for 15 years, and after having raised a family with never any question asked about whether or not a marriage was valid or invalid, a woman can suddenly get an idea in her head that she really didn’t know what she was doing 15 years ago when she got married. Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that she is no longer getting along with her husband and that she has met a new and exciting boyfriend at her evening sociology class.

 

[bobzills]

After the civil divorce is final you can ask the Church to look into the validity of the Marriage. .

Does the Catholic Church of today encourage people to get a civil divorce if their marriage is not working out?

 

[puzzleannie]

Does the Catholic Church of today encourage people to get a civil divorce if their marriage is not working out?

NO, and this is off topic.
again, please limit the discussion to OP’s actual situation. debating annulments should be done on another thread. hope OP has found someone in the Family Life office of her diocese for counseling and advice.

 

[bobzills]

NO, and this is off topic.
again, please limit the discussion to OP’s actual situation. debating annulments should be done on another thread. hope OP has found someone in the Family Life office of her diocese for counseling and advice.

Why is it off topic? Is it off topic, or is it an embarassing fact about the annulment process? It was not me, but Br. Rich SFO who brought it up in the first place and in the second place as part of the annulment process a couple is first encouraged or required to get a civil divorce, is it not true? The topic is about annulments, and the civil divorce is part of the annulment process?

 

[1ke]

Why is it off topic?

Your unsubstantiated comments about the decree of nullity process is off topic.

If you want to discuss the historic number of cases in the US and what may account for the change, the frequency of decrees of nullity, the tribunal process, and the difference between a decree of nullity and a divorce, and Catholic theology–then start a thread on that topic.

Is it off topic, or is it an embarassing fact about the annulment process?

The decree of nullity is in no way “embarrassing” nor is there anything embarrassing about the process.

It was not me, but Br. Rich SFO who brought it up in the first place and in the second place as part of the annulment process a couple is first encouraged or required to get a civil divorce, is it not true?

Yes. That is on-topic. You are not as they in no way apply to her specific question and situation.

The topic is about annulments, and the civil divorce is part of the annulment process?

No, a civil divorce is not “part of the annulment process”.

Please start another thread as Annie has suggested.

 

[bobzills]

No, a civil divorce is not “part of the annulment process”.
.

A couple is required in the USA to get a civil divorce before the tribunal will start the annulment process. It is a required precondition. Is this not true?

 

[1ke]

A couple is required in the USA to get a civil divorce before the tribunal will start the annulment process. It is a required precondition. Is this not true?

Please start another thread if you wish to discuss that topic.

 

[bobzills]

Please start another thread if you wish to discuss that topic.

On this thread, you claimed that civil divorce was not part of the annulment process. Your statement needs to be answered because, this is really not true at all, since a civil divorce is a required precondition for the annulment process in the USA.

 

[1ke]

On this thread, you claimed that civil divorce was not part of the annulment process. Your statement needs to be answered because, this is really not true at all, since a civil divorce is a required precondition for the annulment process in the USA.

Please start another thread to discuss your questions and topics. They are off-topic here.

 

[puzzleannie]

civil divorce is not part of the annulment process, and Bro did not state that it is, he stated correctly that before the process begins all efforts to save the marriage must be exhausted and it must be shown that there is no possibility of reconciliation. in the US, tribunals wait for civil divorce to become final as evidence of this fact. It is not part of the actual process, but a factor in the timing of beginning the process. I apologize to OP for drifting into areas not immediately relevant to her current situation, and repeat the advice to speak to her pastor and/or diocesan family life office.