Not sure how to solve this problem

[Monica4316]

Hi everyone

There’s something I’ve been going through for several months and it’s getting to the point that I’m wondering if I’ll ever solve this problem. I was just wondering if anyone has any advice on what I could do. I want to speak with a priest but I first need to get my thoughts together so I could actually communicate what I want to say.

I was baptized Eastern Orthodox as a child, but was not strong in my faith… I later rediscovered Christ through Protestantism and became evangelical Protestant in first year of university. After a few years there, I began to feel nervous about some teachings, and I missed the Sacraments… God then showed me in a VERY clear way that I need to believe in the Eucharist, and that it is not in my old Protestant church. It was very difficult to leave, but I did, and went back to being Orthodox. btw, God showed me about the Eucharist through a Catholic website about Mary. (it mentioned something about the Mass that changed how I see everything).

I then went to Confession and Communion in the Orthodox church… but I felt this whole time that this isn’t the end of the journey, that God has something else planned for me, and I believed that one day I would become Catholic. Over the next few months, I researched the Catholic Church and began believing in it very strongly. I started going to Mass and Adoration, and felt Christ’s presence very strongly there. Sometimes I missed the traditional Eastern liturgy - the parish I went to for Mass is quite modern and Novus Ordo - but I believed all the Catholic teachings and felt lead there. I struggled with many doubts but Adoration always brought me back to the Church. I eventually discovered the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church, and the Tridentine Mass, which put me at peace regarding liturgy.

I became Catholic in 2009, Easter Vigil… I was really looking forward to it, but on the day, I suddenly felt extreme doubt regarding my decision and received the Eucharist with very little trust and faith, and I think - with a mortal sin. I went to Confession, but that was several days prior to the Vigil, and I committed a sin during that time. I tried going to Confession before the Mass, but it didn’t work, and I wasn’t sure if it was mortal or venial anyways. I was told it’s a venial sin. However, I felt absolutely horrible after my first Communion, and the torment I felt that night was almost like the torment in hell. I felt so strongly I am going to hell because I became Catholic, and felt like I should be Orthodox, I was overcome with this fear and terror in my soul. The next day, I ran back to the church and went to Confession and received Communion again, - and then, it was completely different, I felt totally at peace and united to Christ… it was wonderful! I felt so loved by Him. I then decided to stay Catholic, and continued to receive Communion. I still don’t know what exactly happened to me the day of the Easter Vigil. (and was my reception into the Church even valid? )

I was happy being Catholic, I began growing in devotion to the Eucharist and to Our Lady… I made my Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary… and got involved in various Catholic activities. Then, several months ago, I started feeling this intense fear that I’m on the wrong path and should be Orthodox… sometimes I had very strong experiences, feelings that I would go to hell, unless I convert. At the same time, I felt consoled by Christ, after every one of those experiences… He also appeared in a dream to someone close to me, who is Eastern Orthodox, and when that person asked Jesus to help me, He smiled. Right before the person told me about this dream, I felt a lot of peace and consolation, and afterwards, I was able to open up to God and want His will to be done more than anything. It was one of the best days I ever had because I felt God so near. I know that feelings aren’t everything, I’m just trying to explain my situation so it is clear. after this experience and hearing about the dream, I felt like I should be Catholic, and that God isn’t angry with me and that I’m not going the wrong way after all. My fear went away and I had peace for several days, until I PUT myself into doubt once more.

(to be continued…)

 

[Monica4316]

Unfortunately, because of all this fear, I stopped receiving Communion, though I continued to attend Mass, pray, and go to Confession. The fear went away but was replaced by a very strong impression that I should be Orthodox. Lately, at times, I even feel more peace about being Orthodox than I do about being Catholic, and I don’t know why. I often ‘experience’ the Orthodox liturgy in my imagination and feel like that’s where I should be. However, when I feel really close to Christ, as I know Him, I feel strongly that I should be Catholic. It almost seems like there are two “voices” that are speaking to me, and both seem like Christ, but are different… and I’m at a total loss what to believe right now. I don’t know what I think about the Papacy anymore. I just feel so lost. There have been times when I felt SO clearly that I need to be Orthodox, but I also felt this way about things that were false, like that I committed the unforgiveable sin. I’m not sure what God’s ‘voice’ is supposed to be like. There was a time when I received Communion and felt like I should be Catholic afterwards, but I had other experiences where something was telling me that the Eucharist in the Catholic Church isn’t real, that it’s only the Orthodox Church, and that I need to be Orthodox, etc. I don’t get it… in the past, this ‘voice’ that told me to be EO, was very harsh, but recently it became gentle and peaceful. That confuses me, because I’m not sure if it’s God and I just became more open to His inspirations, or if it’s not God. I’m afraid to think it’s not God because I don’t want to call something from the Holy Spirit demonic. I feel really trapped

A while ago, I was talking to someone about all this and explaining how at times, I’m not even sure which is the real Christ… and I said out loud, “if Christ is as I experience Him in the Orthodox church, then all my relationship with HIm in the Catholic Church has been not from Him, but from a demon”. When I said this, I felt very deeply that I had sinned and hurt Jesus with these words. The way I knew Him in the Catholic Church was so beautiful because it always glorified His mercy. I knew this, and I essentially said that the merciful Jesus I know, is actually a demon. I don’t know how to forgive myself for these words. I have confessed them, and the priest told me that I could be forgiven for this, but I just can’t move on. I feel like I offended God in the worst possible way, because His mercy is one of His greatest attributes, if not the greatest. I’m afraid that He’s given up on me now and is letting me go on to being Orthodox, because I don’t know Him anymore. But other times, I’m afraid of the opposite - that He is actually calling me to the Orthodox church, and I’m rejecting Him. All this fear is too much for me. I don’t know how to discern the truth.

Sorry this is so long… and I know I’ve written similar threads in the past. I just really feel at a loss now. It’s been several months… I miss the Eucharist greatly. I was just wondering if anyone has any advice specifically on what I could do to discern God’s will. Whenever I think about Heaven and hell, I feel so confused, and almost certain I’m not in a state of grace in the moment, but I don’t know how to get back to God.

Please don’t tell me to see a counsellor, psychologist, etc, because they wouldn’t be able to answer my questions. My questions are about spiritual things. I’m posting here because I really don’t know where to go with this question…I’ve tried to deal with it alone for a few months now, and I’m not progressing anywhere so I thought, maybe someone has any advice. I would also really appreciate prayers.

thank you!!

 

[Monica4316]

I also wanted to say… I know it sounds like I’m really focused on feelings, but Im trying not to be. I often have to choose to believe despite what I feel.

Also, I really think that Mary’s intercession can help me with all this… I think I should do a novena to her and really put this in her hands.

 

[JaredR]

Going to Mary is a good idea!

I am not sure if I have anything valuable or helpful to share, but I wanted to post and let you know that I have been praying for you and that I’m sorry you are experiencing so much distress. These “voices” or influences are a red flag to me.

I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. I have never been attracted to Orthodoxy or considered its claims to rival the Catholic Church’s, so I’m not sure how to help.

 

[Dorothy]

I believe that the Orthodox have a beautiful Liturgy, but they are in schism with the Church.

I pray for the day when that schism will come to an end.

 

[Spirit1333]

I am very sorry you are experiencing such conflict. May I suggest you seek a Spiritual Director through your church or Diocese. Such a Director may be able to help you discern God’s will for you. You will definitely be in my prayers.

 

[Sandalwood]

I am so sorry you are going thru this. I can’t imagine the fear and anxiety you must be feeling. I strongly suggest talking with your priest. Even though you are thinking about the Orthodox faith, he can help you with discerning the voices and help you get to the root of the struggle. Also, pray strongly for the Holy Spirit’s guidance.

I will pray for you when I am praying the Rosary tonight.

Ann

 

[runningdude]

Ah, tough pickle. Allow me to think aloud a bit

You asked a few specific questions, so let me start there. Were you validly received into the Church while in a state of mortal sin? Of course! The Church was instituted to end sin and promote love of God. If you sincerely meant to join, then you joined. You may have known this, but it might be good to hear from an outside source.

Some people suggested seeking a “spiritual director”. I’ll be darned if I know what that is, and I admit its bad enough asking a priest for help! Your best bet may be to just go to confession, hide behind the screen, and ask for help. Not necessarily go through confession, just ask for help.

You mentioned demons, but also expressed doubt. This is good! Don’t go messing around with demons or exorcism alone. From what I read, I don’t think this is an issue. Panic attacks maybe? I’m no expert in demonology, but I have a mild form of Tourettes, and it sometimes feels like I’m possessed. I even make bizarre grimaces sometimes, so I may very well even look possessed

But seriously, don’t really go down the demon route. A friend of mine once thought she was possessed (she coincidentally also has Tourettes), and I talked to a priest about it while in confession, and he said it was probably stress. Thinking you have a demon will only stress you out more! (Incidently, stress makes Tourettes worse , so definitely not helping her symptoms).

As for the Orthodox vs Catholic thing, well, that is a tough pickle. As I said, a lot of what your going through sounds like stress. Stress can really mess with you, and sometimes the placebo effect can relieve the stress and it can be quite euphoric. Sometimes, you might inadvertently attribute this feeling of stress relief with the grace that comes from Confession. This isn’t strictly true. Euphoria is a feeling, with a biological cause.

Sometimes, through prayer and meditation before hand, you enter the Catholic Confessional very relaxed, and feel wonderful afterwords. Another time, you might go in stressed, and come out very stressed. You might fear that the Catholic Confessional isn’t working, and want to run back to the Orthodox. But this might just be your body being stressed out, and wanting relief.

What is important to remember is that Sacramental Confession is a fact. If you make an honest confession, you are absolved. It really doesn’t matter how you feel after confession, because it is a simple fact that you are in a state of grace! You are cleansed of your sin, and are free to receive our Lord in Communion!

Last year, my senior year of college was very stressful, and I was having a hard time spiritually. I prayed and relaxed for a day, and went to confession and mass immediately afterwords. I felt wonderful and overjoyed, but I also new it wasn’t enough. I actually did sign up for the University’s counseling services, and it really did help me deal with the stress! They also were the ones who diagnosed my extremely mild Tourettes (so mild it wasn’t noticed for my entire 22 years!). Just knowing this, that my body literally sort of misfires when I’m really stressed helped me manage things better.

I know you said you didn’t want to be referred to a psychologist because they wouldn’t be able to answer your faith questions. I hope I helped you out with the faith side of things a bit. But if anything I said resonated, do consider it. If your still at school, its usually free or dirt cheep, and if its stress, or some other underlying condition, they can help you manage that!

Remember, the sacraments work whether we feel them or not, so you are free to receive Communion, and you are a valid and valued member of the Catholic Church!

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you for the advice everyone!

Runningdude, I find that sometimes I am stressed out, and other times I’m not… I don’t really know what to think, lol, I don’t really understand what I’m going through right now. Hopefully I’ll be able to talk about it with a priest. Regarding demons, I don’t think I’m possessed, but I know that I have been spiritually attacked in the past… I don’t label everything as demonic though… I know there are also natural causes for things. I’m not ruling that out. But I really wish I had some way of knowing what God’s will is.

I appreciate all your comments, - I just need to talk about this at times because I keep it all in me and it’s difficult to deal with. I tend to evaluate things by graces received through them rather than the feelings, - and I can see that I have received graces through the Catholic Church… for example, I began to care about pleasing God more and wanting to grow in virtue. I consider that a grace.

Right now I just feel stuck, because I’m not sufficient convinced that I need to be Orthodox, at the same time I’m having trouble opening up to Catholicism, because that sin I described is really bringing me down. Do you think that God would forgive, or has forgiven, what I said about Him? it’s so unfortunate that I did. I just want to be back with Jesus, the way things were. If it’s His will that I go through all this, then I’m happy… but my fear is that it’s not His will, and that I’m doing something wrong. I frequently feel like there’s something not right in my conscience and I’m not opening up to God, and that makes me afraid because it doesn’t seem to me I am on the path to Heaven.

anyways… thank you for all the prayers I’m planning on going to Adoration this Friday, hopefully that would help.

God bless!

 

[St_Francis]

When I returned to the Church, my husband was upset and thought maybe if we were Orthodox that would be better, so I spent 2 years researching the differences off and on (I had two small children at the time). Then I found this great book called *Jesus, Peter, and the Keys, *by Scott Butler, et al. It really clarified the importance of the Pope.

It may be that you are suffering from spiritual attacks since you converted. Have you spoken to your priest about this and also about not receiving the Eucharist? Because when you receive, there are so many strengthening graces that abstaining is not really good for you if there is no reason not to receive. The Eucharist is food for our souls!

You said that “***if ***Christ is as I experience Him in the Orthodox church, then all my relationship with HIm in the Catholic Church has been not from Him, but from a demon.” That if indicates that you weren’t really saying what followed, but that if the first part were true, then the second part would follow, like If I lived in Forida, I would have a tan. I don’t have a tan, I don’t live in Florida…

Can you get to a Divine Liturgy, at least from time to time? Or speak with a Byzantine or other priest? I’m sure you wouldn’t be the first one with this problem that he has spoken with. I myself totally love the Divine Liturgy, but only get to go once every year or two If we had stayed near that church, I would have changed over, but we moved…

 

[St_Francis]

Oh, forgot to add, Christ will forgive *anything *but final unrepentance (ie, when you die unrepentant). While I don’t think you sinned, since you were saying something conditionally rather than as a fact, since you confessed it, Christ has forgiven you.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you!

Right now I am being tempted to just give up and leave God, and not follow Him anymore… but I’m saying no to this temptation. It’s sad how weak I’ve become over the past few months… I see now how the Eucharist gave me much strength in the past. I’ll just keep on praying, talk to a priest, and receive the Sacraments

 

[Monica4316]

I’ve been coming across quotes about the importance of trusting God, and I think maybe it would help me a lot to have more trust and confidence in Him… maybe this is my solution… I will try doing this, and then maybe it would be easier to surrender to His will, and have more contrition for my sins.

 

[Angelic_Rose]

Do good acts, and our Lord will know your heart, Sister. He sees your faith— so do not doubt that you are on the path and He will continue to call you and provide light for your steps.

Be comfortable with the confusion that you have— if anything it will teach you to have faith and to watch for Him in the most smallest ways. That is how our Lord truly speaks to us, we just don’t realize it always: in small ways. Confusion does not mean you should fret, but know that possibly your call is with many different kinds of Brothers and Sisters. (There is nothing wrong with that— you might call your home Catholic, but still fellowship with other Christians too.)

When you need peace, seek our Blessed Mother and pray to her and our Lord at Adoration.

 

[Spirit1333]

Don’t be discouraged, as I told someone else recently, St. John of the Cross wrote about the Dark Night of the Soul where people undergo different things in relation to God, such as a distancing, confusion and other soul searching situations. Don’t worry, says St. John, most people experience something like what you are experiencing at some point in thier journey towards our Lord.

Let me explain what a Spiritual Director is. All priests, if not most, have a director, many people chose to have a director as well. This is a person trained for several years to assist others in their walk with God. They are there to help guide indiviudals to discover God’s will in their lives. Many priests are Spiritual directors as well. A Spiritual director provides direction to the Soul.

Confession is good, counseling is good, going to Adoration is fantastic, all the advise you’ve received is good. I will continue to keep you in my prayers, especially when I go to Adoration.

 

[runningdude]

… since you confessed it, Christ has forgiven you.

Also, watch this, a hymn named “Be Not Afraid”. Christ is a merciful God

(…so tempted to rick roll you, but this is legit )

 

[Monica4316]

thank you everyone!!

I’m having a really difficult time believing in God’s forgiveness for that sin… I’m trying very hard to believe in His forgiveness, but no matter how much I repent for that sin, I still feel unforgiven. I can’t believe I actually did something like that and insulted God’s mercy in this way, but saying it came from the enemy! that’s horrible I don’t believe this any more, I believe that all the ways God has worked in my life have indeed been from Him, and I also believe that He is merciful now… but when I try to actually accept His mercy for this sin, I feel so much anxiety and worry, and am unable to. I don’t know why. This is blocking me from coming closer to Him so I can discern about churches. I’m in pain over this all the time. My sin just seems to great. I want to believe that God’s mercy is greater. It just scares me to think that I said something so similar to the Pharisees in Matthew 12, even though I am repentant, and they were not.

 

[JaredR]

Even if He wanted to, God couldn’t punish you or hold what you said against you, because it seems like you have a monopoly on self-torture.

 

[AnneTeresa]

I am a new revert to the catholic church, having been involved in evangelical and other churches for many years. I am having similar feelings as yours–confusion, doubt, questions, stress, anxiety, etc. even though mine aren’t about the exact same things (the catholic vs. orthodox church). All that is to say, I can relate to what you’re going through at some level. I feel like I’m on a roller coaster sometimes.

I don’t really have the answer to tell you, but this is what I decided to do just yesterday. When I feel that anxiety, doubt, whatever I’m just going to pray “Jesus I trust in you”. I get tied up in trying to figure everything out and am anxious because I think I don’t belong in the catholic church, X doesn’t make sense to me, what if X is wrong and I go to hell, does God really forgive me, etc. – so this may help. I’m sure I won’t always be able to do this, but I’m going to try for today anyway.

I do encourage you to continue to access the sacraments though. We receive graces when we do so and we need that to help us get through these struggles. Jesus understands our struggles and he is there to meet us in the Eucharist.

I have heard that it is not unusual to go through this kind of struggle when you come into the church. I don’t know if it’s Satan or what, but it just helps some to know that others have gone through this too–it takes time for this major change in our lives to take hold and to figure out how to live.

Also, I sometimes renounce Satan, by saying “In the name of Jesus, I renounce this spirit of anxiety” and ask Jesus to fill me with trust. That may be wrong (someone here will tell me if so) but I figure it can’t hurt! I don’t know if any of this helps, but I do want to encourage you not to give up. Also, I’m glad you posted as it helps me also to hear what other people say and this struggle is sometimes hard to put into words.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Monica,
One more thought: I REALLY encourage you to go to confession and tell the priest your doubts about being forgiven. I think it would really help.