Not sure if I should do this

[mustangurluvsam]

Hi all. I am not catholic, but my mother in law is. My husband was raised catholic, but at the age of 14 stopped going and didn’t further his faith after his father died of cancer. Anyways, I was not raised catholic either and recently just started going back to church (non denominational), and my husband goes as well. He does not consider himself catholic, he really likes the church we go to now. But my mother in law has bugged and bugged me to have my baby (samantha, 6 months old now) baptised at her catholic church. I didn’t want to originally because I am not catholic and my church believes in waiting until the child is old enough to understand what baptism is and that they are born “pure.” I know this is different from the catholic belief, but it is what we believe so please try to keep that in mind. My mother in law gave me a booklet to read on this and it says that baptising my daughter there, I am comitting myself to “raise her catholic.” Since I was ONLY doing this to get my mother in law off my back, and have told her that was the ONLY reason, and she failed to tell me that I am supposed to commit to raising her catholic(she is VERY pushy and deceptive), I don’t think I should go through with the baptism. I take my faith seriously, and do not want to commit to raising her catholic, I would see that as a sin, do you all agree? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Nickkname]

Well, you’re not Catholic, so you’re not obligated to follow the Church’s teachings. The Church teaches that Catholics must raise their children Catholic, but since you’re not Catholic and your husband isn’t a praticing Catholic, I really don’t see the problem. HOWEVER, you could remind your husband about his Catholic duty to raise the children Catholic. It would be charitable of you as his wife to do that.

 

[mustangurluvsam]

Thanks for your reply. If I were to do that, how would I do that, I would almost have to learn the catholic faith myself so that when she talks about it or asks me ?'s I know how to answer them. And what about church, him and her go there and I go my way? Seems pretty divided, any advice on how to do that?

 

[Nickkname]

Thanks for your reply. If I were to do that, how would I do that, I would almost have to learn the catholic faith myself so that when she talks about it or asks me ?'s I know how to answer them. And what about church, him and her go there and I go my way? Seems pretty divided, any advice on how to do that?

Parents should always be united in how to take care of their children, even if their personal beliefs and/or practices are very different. Your husband would be the one who has to teach the child, since he’s the Catholic. If he agrees to go through with the Baptism, than ask him if you feel it would be necessary to help him in raising the child Catholic, i.e., teaching the Catholic Faith and going to Mass. If he says yes, than help him. If he says no, respect that, but say you’ll always be ready to help if he needs help. You might not be happy to help, but always ready. It would be best if you talked this other with your husband. And if he feels it is necessary, you can talk it through with him with a Priest, for example, questions on the Faith, how to go through with Baptism, etc. This is really a mother-father decision you both must make.

As for the whole tyrannical mother problem, the best solution is prayer and charity. I know you’re not Catholic, but that’s the best solution in my opinion. You don’t have to listen to mom, but you do have to respect her, you have to love her. That’s the duty of every child, no matter the age. Prayer is excellent, too, because it lets God take care of the problem and all you have to do is trust in Him and be docile to His inspirations. So it really makes it all easy for you. But I don’t want to push the truth on you - just show it to you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

The whole justification for infant baptism is that they are carried to the font on the authority of their parents’ faith, who have the intention to bring them up as Catholics (or as Orthodox, for that matter).

Since you obviously do NOT intend to do so, the child should not be baptized in the Catholic Chuch, especially since what you believe about baptism is NOT what the Church has historically taught.

BTW–there’s no such thing as a non-denominational church. It might be a denomination of just one congregation, responsible to nobody but itself, but most likely, despite its independence, would be found to fit in quite nicely with one of the already existing denominations.

 

[Cat]

I just want to encourage you to keep in mind that your MIL is concerned for her grandchild’s eternal soul. Catholics believe that those who are not baptized are not cleansed of orginal sin and therefore, will probably not be in heaven. You ask for tolerance about your beliefs–please try to understand this belief.

No wonder your grandmother is pushy. She wants her granddaughter to go to heaven. I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years before converting to Catholicism, and if I thought someone I loved was going to hell, I would be pretty pushy, too, in my witnessing efforts!

What would you have your grandmother to do? Back off and let her granddaughter die and go to hell? If she believes that her religion is the truth, then of course she will push to save her granddaughter from the fires of hell. I don’t consider that pushy, I consider it love.

 

[tee_eff_em]

You should not do this. Or, more precisely: The priest or deacon at your mother-in-law’s parish should not do this.

You are not Catholic. Your husband, though Catholic, no longer practices the faith. Canon Law speaks to this matter:

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:
1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

(Of course my opinion is that it would be best if (i) your husband returned to practice the faith, (ii) you would convert to the faith, and (iii) you would baptize your daughter in the faith. But I think it unlikely that I myself could persuade your family to do so at a distance and through this forum)

I can also imagine it might be uncomfortable for you to be placed in the position of educating your Catholic mother-in-law about the above Canon. Perhaps you could contact her pastor for advice and assistance in this regard?

:twocents:
tee

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . ." Since I was ONLY doing this to get my mother in law off my back, and have told her that was the ONLY reason, and she failed to tell me that I am supposed to commit to raising her catholic(she is VERY pushy and deceptive), I don’t think I should go through with the baptism. I take my faith seriously, and do not want to commit to raising her catholic, I would see that as a sin, do you all agree? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I think you have it right and express it well.

With my prayers for all as you work this through. - Joe

 

[brigid12]

Don’t be too harsh with your MIL! She is doing what she is doing out of love, probably for all of you. Make sure you are teaching the baby about Jesus Christ (only if you can, in good conscience) and let your MIL know that you are teaching her about the Bible (see above). Remind her of baptism of desire, of the strength of prayer (especially St. Monica who prayed for decades for her son’s conversion) and of the Catholic Church’s teaching of respect for all other’s even when they are in disagreement with our belief. Let her know of what she can do to teach the Faith to her granddaughter that is not going to teach disrespect for you (maybe talking to a priest will help in this - they certainly will respect your wishes!).

 

[mustangurluvsam]

I just want to encourage you to keep in mind that your MIL is concerned for her grandchild’s eternal soul. Catholics believe that those who are not baptized are not cleansed of orginal sin and therefore, will probably not be in heaven. You ask for tolerance about your beliefs–please try to understand this belief.

No wonder your grandmother is pushy. She wants her granddaughter to go to heaven. I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years before converting to Catholicism, and if I thought someone I loved was going to hell, I would be pretty pushy, too, in my witnessing efforts!

What would you have your grandmother to do? Back off and let her granddaughter die and go to hell? If she believes that her religion is the truth, then of course she will push to save her granddaughter from the fires of hell. I don’t consider that pushy, I consider it love.

This is not my grandmother, it is my mother in law. But thats besides the point. My mother in law is not just pushy about this, it is of ALL issues. She MUST have her way of EVERYTHING. I am not over embellishing. I understand where you are coming from, in that it is yours and the catholic belief that the fear is going to hell if not baptised. But, that hits home for me because I had a brother who died at 3 months of age, and was not baptised. I do not believe for one moment he is in the pits of hell. My belief is that he was a baby, God’s purest creation. We could argue this point over and over. Also, of anyone I’ve ever known, (even out of the mouths of my mother in law awhile back) the baby goes with whatever the mother is. My husband has no desire to be back in the catholic church. A big part of this is because of his mother and her hypocritical ways, and largely in part of the experience he’s had with the catholic churches. Newho, thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I will keep it mind.

 

[mustangurluvsam]

I think you have it right and express it well.

With my prayers for all as you work this through. - Joe

Thank you so much! Prayer would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[mustangurluvsam]

You should not do this. Or, more precisely: The priest or deacon at your mother-in-law’s parish should not do this.

You are not Catholic. Your husband, though Catholic, no longer practices the faith. Canon Law speaks to this matter:

(Of course my opinion is that it would be best if (i) your husband returned to practice the faith, (ii) you would convert to the faith, and (iii) you would baptize your daughter in the faith. But I think it unlikely that I myself could persuade your family to do so at a distance and through this forum)

I can also imagine it might be uncomfortable for you to be placed in the position of educating your Catholic mother-in-law about the above Canon. Perhaps you could contact her pastor for advice and assistance in this regard?

:twocents:
tee

Wow, thank you for being so understanding. I feel like people are being offended by what I am saying. I do NOT in any way want to offend people. I just needed some advice, which I have received and am greatly appreciative. Even though I am not catholic and do not wish to be become a catholic, I respect that you alll are catholic, and love you all for taking the time to try and help. This specific reply has been a big help. Although I have no plans to convert, and my husband does not want to continue his catholic faith (totally on his part, even before we ever met), I don’t want to look at things like this with my mother in law as a battle with her, but yet what is best for my daughter. Thanks again

 

[mercygate]

This is not my grandmother, it is my mother in law. But thats besides the point. My mother in law is not just pushy about this, it is of ALL issues. She MUST have her way of EVERYTHING. I am not over embellishing. I understand where you are coming from, in that it is yours and the catholic belief that the fear is going to hell if not baptised. But, that hits home for me because I had a brother who died at 3 months of age, and was not baptised. I do not believe for one moment he is in the pits of hell. My belief is that he was a baby, God’s purest creation. We could argue this point over and over. Also, of anyone I’ve ever known, (even out of the mouths of my mother in law awhile back) the baby goes with whatever the mother is. My husband has no desire to be back in the catholic church. A big part of this is because of his mother and her hypocritical ways, and largely in part of the experience he’s had with the catholic churches. Newho, thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I will keep it mind.

Try to purge your thinking of all those negative terms about your MIL. It’s bad for you. Your husband needs to step up to the plate and tell his mum that this child is HIS and YOURS. Frankly, if you go to a Catholic Church and tell the story you have told here, and they agree to baptize that baby, I would be very surprised. YOU are the parents. The responsibility and the privilege of raising your child in faith belongs to you.

As Catholics, we would all love to see every baby brought up in the faith – but we certainly would not want to see that done through the application of pressure or inappropriate meddling.

 

[mustangurluvsam]

Try to purge your thinking of all those negative terms about your MIL. It’s bad for you. Your husband needs to step up to the plate and tell his mum that this child is HIS and YOURS. Frankly, if you go to a Catholic Church and tell the story you have told here, and they agree to baptize that baby, I would be very surprised. YOU are the parents. The responsibility and the privilege of raising your child in faith belongs to you.

As Catholics, we would all love to see every baby brought up in the faith – but we certainly would not want to see that done through the application of pressure or inappropriate meddling.

Thank you so very much for replying. I have been fighting with myself for yearsss about my mother in law. I have had so much hatred for her. In the past few months I’ve realized what this has done to me. It is a waste of energy, and I never want to come inbetween my husband and his mother. As much as I would love to have nothing to do with her, I know it is his mom and nothing will change that. I know she does have a good heart she just isn’t good with words and sometimes forgets to use her heart when speaking. But I have been praying for strength to forgive her for her many wrong doings and words. Besides praying about it, I don’t know how else to handle it. I have seen my strength in this grow, and can now sort of laugh at things. For now, this is getting me through.

 

[brigid12]

Thank you so very much for replying. I have been fighting with myself for yearsss about my mother in law. I have had so much hatred for her. In the past few months I’ve realized what this has done to me. It is a waste of energy, and I never want to come inbetween my husband and his mother. As much as I would love to have nothing to do with her, I know it is his mom and nothing will change that. I know she does have a good heart she just isn’t good with words and sometimes forgets to use her heart when speaking. But I have been praying for strength to forgive her for her many wrong doings and words. Besides praying about it, I don’t know how else to handle it. I have seen my strength in this grow, and can now sort of laugh at things. For now, this is getting me through.

Sounds to me as if you are truly growing - as He would have you grow.
Actually, the Catholic Church’s Magisterium does not teach that those who die under the age of reason (around 7), if not baptised, automatically go to hell. It teaches that the most normative way for salvation for that child is baptism, but recognizes that those of us on earth do not know of how God’s Mercy works in this instance (for many years the theory of Limbo was common, but it is only a theory and is not doctrine). So your baby brother may need your prayers (if he is not in the Presence of the Him yet) or may even already be with Him and be wanting to hear your prayers for his intercession with Him.

 

[mercygate]

Thank you so very much for replying. I have been fighting with myself for yearsss about my mother in law. I have had so much hatred for her. In the past few months I’ve realized what this has done to me. It is a waste of energy, and I never want to come inbetween my husband and his mother. As much as I would love to have nothing to do with her, I know it is his mom and nothing will change that. I know she does have a good heart she just isn’t good with words and sometimes forgets to use her heart when speaking. But I have been praying for strength to forgive her for her many wrong doings and words. Besides praying about it, I don’t know how else to handle it. I have seen my strength in this grow, and can now sort of laugh at things. For now, this is getting me through.

Sounds to me like you are already a better Catholic than she is. God love you. Now let’s get that man of yours to do some apron-string snipping.

The Bible says, “a little child shall lead them.” Fatherhood is the time when a man comes forwarrd to assume the spiritual leadership of his household. That’s his job. Not his mom’s.

God love you. Big hug to you.

 

[Linda_Marie]

Thanks for your reply. If I were to do that, how would I do that, I would almost have to learn the catholic faith myself so that when she talks about it or asks me ?'s I know how to answer them. And what about church, him and her go there and I go my way? Seems pretty divided, any advice on how to do that?

If you want to learn about the Catholic faith there are several ways. You could read the Catechism (online here) or an easier way would be to go to an RCIA class (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) at the parish nearest you. There is no commitment to become a Catholic in attending the classes. You could explain that you just want to learn more about your MIL’s faith. The advantage to the classes is that you can ask questions.

My MIL is Catholic and her husband was Anglican. She and the children went to the Catholic church while he went to the Anglican. The kids never seemed confused by this. They just accepted it. They had reached an accord. You will have to discuss this with your dh to reach your own decision about it.

About the baptism - I agree with the other posters, if you are not Catholic and your husband does not practice, the priest or deacon has no business baptising your child and should tell you that. They should not baptise your child just because your MIL wants it done. She is not raising your children, you are. If you don’t intend to raise them to be Catholic, they should not be baptised in the Catholic Church.

That being said, Baptism in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in other churches is recognised as valid by the Church. I think your MIL is just worried in case the worst happens and your child dies before baptism.

I’ve had my own similar problems with my MIL but in the end, she became my Godmother. She still speaks quite bluntly and I have to grow a thick hide around her, but we can always view it as an opportunity to forgive and thank God for making this available to us, instead of taking it to heart and bearing a grudge or bad feeling.

 

[jeanannemarie]

Thank you so very much for replying. I have been fighting with myself for yearsss about my mother in law. I have had so much hatred for her. In the past few months I’ve realized what this has done to me. It is a waste of energy, and I never want to come inbetween my husband and his mother. As much as I would love to have nothing to do with her, I know it is his mom and nothing will change that. I know she does have a good heart she just isn’t good with words and sometimes forgets to use her heart when speaking. But I have been praying for strength to forgive her for her many wrong doings and words. Besides praying about it, I don’t know how else to handle it. I have seen my strength in this grow, and can now sort of laugh at things. For now, this is getting me through.

I couldn’t help but respond to this post, even if it is off the subject of the baptism question. I married a man 33 years ago and had nothing but problems with his mom. I could totally relate to what you are saying. Here is my (name removed by moderator)ut: years later, in the nursing home with dementia, I looked at that tiny, powerless woman and wondered why I EVER let her effect my emotional system or any other. Find a way to let it roll off, because believe me, it is not worth your time. Life goes by quickly and you have more important things to do. Maybe the smile and nod routine will work for you with the difficult MIL. Do what you must, it is your right. Don’t allow it to make waves with your hubby. Of course, I must add, that perhaps you would love the Catholic Church if you actually made it your own choice to investigate. Don’t let someone else poison the Church for you or your hubby. Make up your own mind. God bless.

 

[Zooey]

Nobody asked for the opinion of the Methodist-In-Residence…but when I read this (wonderful!) post:

About the baptism - I agree with the other posters, if you are not Catholic and your husband does not practice, the priest or deacon has no business baptising your child and should tell you that. They should not baptise your child just because your MIL wants it done. She is not raising your children, you are. If you don’t intend to raise them to be Catholic, they should not be baptised in the Catholic Church.

That being said, Baptism in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in other churches is recognised as valid by the Church. I think your MIL is just worried in case the worst happens and your child dies before baptism.

…It occurred to me, to ask about the possibility of finding an understanding non-Catholic pastor in your vicinity, & asking about the possibility of having your baby baptized by him?
Because, you see, if your MIL keeps it up…I mean, I know that in my own Methodist tradition, baptism is regarded as simply Christian baptism, not Catholic nor Non-Denom, nor even Methodist. Just Christian.
Which would leave your MIL without her worry for the child, while not committing either you, or your DH to raising the child as anything other than simply as a Christian, which it appears that you intend to do.
As long as the baptism is done with water, and uses the names of the Holy Trinity, it is valid.

Note: I in no sense mean this as a way to just “give in” and let her run your lives…Just as a possible way to satisfy her and yet remain true to your own beliefs.

I think everyone has give you excellent advice. It sounds like this lady is a handful!!
Praying for you,
Zooey

 

[CradleCath]

This is not my grandmother, it is my mother in law. But thats besides the point. My mother in law is not just pushy about this, it is of ALL issues. She MUST have her way of EVERYTHING. I am not over embellishing. I understand where you are coming from, in that it is yours and the catholic belief that the fear is going to hell if not baptised. But, that hits home for me because I had a brother who died at 3 months of age, and was not baptised. I do not believe for one moment he is in the pits of hell. My belief is that he was a baby, God’s purest creation. We could argue this point over and over. Also, of anyone I’ve ever known, (even out of the mouths of my mother in law awhile back) the baby goes with whatever the mother is. My husband has no desire to be back in the catholic church. A big part of this is because of his mother and her hypocritical ways, and largely in part of the experience he’s had with the catholic churches. Newho, thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I will keep it mind.

Whatever you do…don’t Baptize your daughter into a faith that you are not going to follow. My best friend was Baptized Catholic because of the pressure of relatives. Her Father was a fallen away Catholic & her Mom a Protestant. When she became old enough, she was sent to a Catholic school…because her Father considered Catholic schools to be scholastically suprerior to the local public school. The girl, of course, learnted that fallen-away Catholics were in serious error & in danger of going to hell because they were given the Truth & rejected it. At 8 yrs. of age, she walked to Mass alone, etc. It was terribly confusing for her.