Not sure if joining a Third Order is the right decision for me

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark1970
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mark1970 said:
Truth be told, one of the things I find slightly strange is that I haven’t been questioned at the Fraternity. They just seemed happy to accept me. In fact, at my very first meeting I was presented with my Tau cross and told “Right, you’re one of us now!” And this was at my very first meeting when (regardless of which time-scale you follow) I should have been a visitor. And a few months later, a list of membership was given out at which I was listed with everybody else as “Brother Mark”, even though my membership status hadn’t progressed.🤷
Click to expand...
What has happened to you isn’t typical. One of the recent changes in SFO has been the creation of new formation materials in an attempt to make things common throughout SFO and to bring them more inline with the other Franciscan branches. These materials are only now starting to make their way into local fraternities so it may take time to make it to people in your area. As far as I know these materials are meant for everyone in SFO, not just US or English speaking countries. They are supposed to be translating them into multiple languages. Just based on your statement of what has happened it sounds like your formation team (or people greeting you) may be jumping the gun or overly welcoming or something. Typically for symbolic reasons you do not receive your Tau cross from SFO until the end of the Inquiry stage. BUT anyone is allowed to wear the Tau cross. The Franciscan friary near us gives them out to people that attend lectures/classes there. They sell them openly in the gift shop. During orientation phase the formation team in our fraternity requests that anyone that has a Tau cross either not wear them at SFO functions until they are officially presented with them or at least hide them. It is only after profession that you are “required” to wear it (or some other identifying symbol.)

As for calling you Brother, we are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ. There is no problem calling you Brother at this stage.
 
Mark,
Peace be with you! I too am on the Franciscan Road with the SFO. I have found my group to be open and helpful with my spiritual journey. My biggest challenge comes from myself. I find it can be less than it should be if I simply go alone with the group. It is when I do the reflective work, in the manual and read other reflective books about St. Francis and St. Clare, that I am really challenged. I journal and try to more fully understand what I entering into. It is not simply checking off boxes to complete the requirements. For me it is journey inward. I look forward to the day when I can profess my desire to become fully Franciscan.
Take some time to search your heart and listen to God speaking to you! Write your thoughts down!
PEACE
RJCURAJ:)
 
jwinch2 said:
That is a bit strange. I have been asked repeatedly (politely of course) what led me to the Domincans, etc. and I imagine I will continue to be asked. People in your case could just be trying to be polite and welcoming. The average lay person has no training whatsoever in helping people to discern a vocation nor even training to help themselves.

I have said it before on here and I will continue to stick to my guns on this, that the average faithful Catholic in the pews is starving for this sort of thing. They are starving to find an authentic approach to the spiritual life that can help them on their path to holiness in a world that is conspiring against them at every turn. Priests simply cannot take on spiritual direction for an individual or even a small group basis because there are simply not enough of them and they are too spread out as it is. In our parish, things like CRHP are packed repeatedly as people try to find something to latch onto outside of going to mass and getting involved in service within the parish.

Because of all that, the people in your SFO group are probably just trying to be welcoming and are happy that you have found what they have found.

Peace of Christ,
Click to expand...
Absolutely true, Jason. And priests aren’t generally trained in spiritual direction, really. Most of them don’t know much about the great spiritual traditions, and they typically don’t have the experience that it takes either, unless they were professional counselors or something before they found their vocations. They just don’t, and sometimes, like laypeople, they don’t even realize what all’s involved in real spiritual direction. They’re confessors, not spiritual directors. Big difference.

Now that said, I firmly believe that belonging to a “third order” is a vocation. I also believe that there’s a perfectly good and honorable vocation that consists of being a parish family Catholic, without belonging to a third order. Not everyone should be in a third order, regardless of the fact they’re looking for prayer help or community or whatever–if they don’t have a specific vocation to it. Parishes are supposed to provide opportunities for parish family Catholics in the form of parish revivals, programs, visits or other contact with knowledgeable people from the great traditions. Sometimes they don’t but traditionally they did, and they need to. When they don’t, people will get on the internet and seek out the help and knowledge they need, whether they have a vocation to a 3rd order or not.

Jason, what’s CRHP?
 
rjcuraj said:
Mark,
Peace be with you! I too am on the Franciscan Road with the SFO. I have found my group to be open and helpful with my spiritual journey. My biggest challenge comes from myself. I find it can be less than it should be if I simply go alone with the group. It is when I do the reflective work, in the manual and read other reflective books about St. Francis and St. Clare, that I am really challenged. I journal and try to more fully understand what I entering into. It is not simply checking off boxes to complete the requirements. For me it is journey inward. I look forward to the day when I can profess my desire to become fully Franciscan.
Take some time to search your heart and listen to God speaking to you! Write your thoughts down!
PEACE
RJCURAJ:)
Click to expand...
Hey RJCURAJ,
Sounds like you are right on! 👍
 
iloveangels said:
That’s the first time I’ve seen this program. Thanks for the link, Jason.
Click to expand...
No problem. One of the parishes in our town has been doing the program for some time and everyone seems to love it. Our parish is starting it this summer and everyone is geeked up about it. You can hardly walk into Mass without someone asking if you have been or if you are going. I am glad that people have something which they enjoy and which helps them grow spiritually.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
No problem. One of the parishes in our town has been doing the program for some time and everyone seems to love it. Our parish is starting it this summer and everyone is geeked up about it. You can hardly walk into Mass without someone asking if you have been or if you are going. I am glad that people have something which they enjoy and which helps them grow spiritually.

Peace,
Click to expand...
It probably depends on how it’s administered at the parish level. I’m also reading that it’s very basic and that’s what more Catholics than anyone wants to admit need.

We had “Discovering Christ” here which is very nice and VERY basic. The whole thing was done very well, and you could see hear, listening to the comments people were at all different levels of understanding, even people who’d been Catholic for years. People loved it–all of them did. And it really helped them.

One of the local parishes also did the Catholicism series. Same look, same result.

The good thing about these two programs is that they can be used by all kinds of people because they’re somewhat structured. So people with a lot of knowledge and experience get something out of them, and people with beginner levels of knowledge and experience also get something out of them.

Great, great parish programs. And very suitable for everyone, whether parish family Catholics or 3rd order members, but especially parish family Catholics. They really need things to attend at their church.

The CRHP one looks much more unstructured—non-directive–as I said before and that can be a problem unless the groups are done correctly, and the content is presented very well, by someone who knows how to work with mixed adult groups like that. [And I have seen very, very, very few parish employees who had that kind of training. Frankly, they can make more money and do much better for themselves if they do and they don’t hang around.]
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
For right now:o:D

Seriously, been praying over a period of weeks before the Blessed Sacrament. He answered today. 🙂
Click to expand...
I was going to ask what have you got figured out, Luigi Daniele? That sounds like an inspiration to me.
 
jwinch2 said:
No problem. One of the parishes in our town has been doing the program for some time and everyone seems to love it. Our parish is starting it this summer and everyone is geeked up about it. You can hardly walk into Mass without someone asking if you have been or if you are going. I am glad that people have something which they enjoy and which helps them grow spiritually.

Peace,
Click to expand...
About CRHP. The idea of a course in basic Christianity with community is a good one, but the way they’re doing it sounds pretty scary and haphazard to me. Very 70s. I’d skip that program and look for something else to attend if it were me. But maybe that’s just me.

The idea of having untrained lay presenters who can ad lib about events in peoples’ personal lives is what I find really scary. I mean, most people mean well, but …

What might be interesting is to see parish statistics after one, and also a series, of these events and see:
a) if it makes any difference at all in terms of mass attendance, leaving the church etc etc, and if so…
b) to deconstruct it and see what exact features of the human side of things helped. Setting, duration, lesson plans etc etc.
 
iloveangels said:
About CRHP. The idea of a course in basic Christianity with community is a good one, but the way they’re doing it sounds pretty scary and haphazard to me. Very 70s. I’d skip that program and look for something else to attend if it were me. But maybe that’s just me.

The idea of having untrained lay presenters who can ad lib about events in peoples’ personal lives is what I find really scary. I mean, most people mean well, but …

What might be interesting is to see parish statistics after one, and also a series, of these events and see:
a) if it makes any difference at all in terms of mass attendance, leaving the church etc etc, and if so…
b) to deconstruct it and see what exact features of the human side of things helped. Setting, duration, lesson plans etc etc.
Click to expand...
They aren’t really untrained. The group which attended runs the next retreat, but only after going through 6 months of formation first in the form of weekly meetings. What the formation consists of, I am not sure, but I know that in order for someone to run the next session, they must go through it.

I do agree with you about some of your comments but, as with many parish functions, the ones who volunteer to participate are not the ones who were likely to leave the Church or stop coming to Mass in the first place.
 
jwinch2 said:
They aren’t really untrained. The group which attended runs the next retreat, but only after going through 6 months of formation first in the form of weekly meetings. What the formation consists of, I am not sure, but I know that in order for someone to run the next session, they must go through it.

I do agree with you about some of your comments but, as with many parish functions, the ones who volunteer to participate are not the ones who were likely to leave the Church or stop coming to Mass in the first place.
Click to expand...
That’s a great point, Jason. You’re right.
 
jwinch2 said:
They aren’t really untrained. The group which attended runs the next retreat, but only after going through 6 months of formation first in the form of weekly meetings. What the formation consists of, I am not sure, but I know that in order for someone to run the next session, they must go through it.

I do agree with you about some of your comments but, as with many parish functions, the ones who volunteer to participate are not the ones who were likely to leave the Church or stop coming to Mass in the first place.
Click to expand...
Jason, when I say training in terms of working with mixed groups, I don’t mean weekend wonder training. I mean professional group management training or experience. Counselors have this kind of training, as do very professional and experienced teachers. They know how to present material, help manage difficulties for people with problems, know what to keep private, what to say and not say while still getting the ideas going around the room, and take care of all kinds of things without their audience even being aware of it. When they’re working like 90, it just looks like they’re just standing around smiling.

You’re a teacher; I’ve been a teacher. You know what I’m talking about, right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top