'Not that there's anything wrong with that'

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Has anyone noticed a tendency in various self-help books to avoid the use of the terms “right” and “wrong,” opting instead to use words like “unhealthy,” “counterproductive” or maybe even “destructive”? This might seem like an attempt to appear non-judgmental, but I’ve often found these books to make bold claims like, “There is nothing morally wrong with <insert behavior that virtually every religion over 100 years old has typically considered immoral>.” As if, by writing a self-help book, shrink or psychologist gains the authority to overrule all of the world’s religions on moral issues.

While I could see self-help-book writers wanting to avoid pigeonholing their audiences into one religious perspective, even atheists will generally claim to believe in some kind of morality.

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
 
snip

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
. . . not to mention wrong 😛
 
It’s not just self-help books, it’s our culture in general. In many cases it’s more extreme than just omitting the words “right” and “wrong.” Words like “counterproductive” and “destructive” can be considered judgmental, too. It usually ends up with “Works for me, doesn’t work for me.” Which means basically, moral relativism. Which is where our society’s at.

To be fair, though, words like “counter-productive” and “destructive” can be useful and more descriptive or apropos. But sure, they could be used to avoid more clearly moral language.
 
Has anyone noticed a tendency in various self-help books to avoid the use of the terms “right” and “wrong,” opting instead to use words like “unhealthy,” “counterproductive” or maybe even “destructive”? This might seem like an attempt to appear non-judgmental, but I’ve often found these books to make bold claims like, “There is nothing morally wrong with <insert behavior that virtually every religion over 100 years old has typically considered immoral>.” As if, by writing a self-help book, shrink or psychologist gains the authority to overrule all of the world’s religions on moral issues.

While I could see self-help-book writers wanting to avoid pigeonholing their audiences into one religious perspective, even atheists will generally claim to believe in some kind of morality.

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
I don’t know about self-help books, but I would tend to avoid use of the words ‘right’ and ‘wrong.’ This is not because I don’t think there are things that are right or wrong, but rather in my view using another word explains why something is right or wrong rather than simply stating that it is either right or wrong.
 
Has anyone noticed a tendency in various self-help books to avoid the use of the terms “right” and “wrong,” opting instead to use words like “unhealthy,” “counterproductive” or maybe even “destructive”? This might seem like an attempt to appear non-judgmental, but I’ve often found these books to make bold claims like, “There is nothing morally wrong with <insert behavior that virtually every religion over 100 years old has typically considered immoral>.” As if, by writing a self-help book, shrink or psychologist gains the authority to overrule all of the world’s religions on moral issues.

While I could see self-help-book writers wanting to avoid pigeonholing their audiences into one religious perspective, even atheists will generally claim to believe in some kind of morality.

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
yes you are right Not that there’s anything wrong with that

seinfeld episodes not that thereiis anything wrong with that

youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk
 
Self-help books can help. One of my favorite is Peace of Soul by Bishop Fulton Sheen.
 
People in general are non-confrontational and passive. Taking a stand on one side or another of an issue introduces risk to the equation. There is a risk of offending someone, losing someone’s admiration, or creating animosity. People are terrified of that, and thus try to find a neutral way of saying everything.
 
Most self-help writers are just trying to sell books. If they took a moral stance on something, they would end up alienating some group eventually. To maximize sales, they keep it vague. That can make the books less useful, though.
 
Most self-help writers are just trying to sell books. If they took a moral stance on something, they would end up alienating some group eventually. To maximize sales, they keep it vague. That can make the books less useful, though.
Where’s the “like” button? 👍
 
Even atheists?
That is so surprising to you? Most of the atheists I know are the most moral people I’ve ever met. Morality doesn’t necessarily come from a religion or a belief in God.
I mean, just think of all the deists we’ve heard of who have very bad morals.
My point was not that atheists don’t care about morality. It was that while some seem to feel that to make a moral judgment is to impose a particular religious viewpoint, there are plenty of people who do not believe in any religion who still hold moral beliefs. Therefore, the argument that making a moral judgment constitutes an imposition of religious views is not valid.
 
While I could see self-help-book writers wanting to avoid pigeonholing their audiences into one religious perspective, even atheists will generally claim to believe in some kind of morality.

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
Words have been manipulated for the past 40 years in particular. The media is the primary culprit. Controversy is a meaningless word. On every subject, the word controversy tells me nothing. Every attempt is made to avoid saying this is right and this is wrong.

The one thing to keep in mind is that there cannot be two right answers. And whenever anyone says or you read “What might be right for you might be wrong for me,” please realize that this is moral relativism, meaning “who knows what the truth is?” The Catholic Church does.

Right now, “psychological well-being” consists of “if it doesn’t make you uncomfortable, it’s OK.” But what do we get in the outside world? Psychologists testifying in court that this or that sinful, immoral behavior is OK. And immorality is legislated.

Forget about “I’m OK, you’re OK.” Know, very clearly, what is right and what is wrong. Meditate on the Ten Commandments. Meditate on the 7 deadly sins.

Wrath. Go to the average internet forum and the common abnormal behavior is people getting angry to very angry at others.

“Like all of the deadly sins, anger (or wrath) is a potential rooted in the fallen nature of every person. Anger is deeply self-centered, impatient with the weaknesses of others and often driven by an aggrieved sense of entitlement rising up in response to real or imagined injury. It causes the breakdown of marriages, families, and friendships.”

Greed. Too many are so caught up in the question “Is it OK for a Catholic to be rich?” For most working-class people, having enough will do. There was a time when people were “content with what they had.” Sure, they would have liked more but it was not an all-consuming passion. Yes, if you have the drive and ambition, you can become very wealthy, but with this gift, don’t deny the poor. Domino’s Pizza founder, Tom Monaghan, a Catholic, said that he plans to be broke just before he dies.

From the Catechism: "2536 The tenth commandment forbids greed and the desire to amass earthly goods without limit. It forbids avarice arising from a passion for riches and their attendant power. It also forbids the desire to commit injustice by harming our neighbor in his temporal goods:
Code:
When the Law says, "You shall not covet," these words mean that we should banish our desires for whatever does not belong to us. Our thirst for another's goods is immense, infinite, never quenched. Thus it is written: "He who loves money never has money enough."
Sloth. “The Catechism describes sloth as a culpable lack of physical or spiritual effort that can actually refuse the joy that comes from God. The slothful person is lukewarm towards, perhaps even repelled by, divine goodness and spiritual practices (Catechism #1866, 2094, 2733). The loss of one’s spiritual moorings manifests itself in flight from God and apathy in the service of one’s neighbor.”

Pride. “A high or inordinate opinion of one’s own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.”

It’s OK to be proud of something you’ve worked hard at and succeeded in doing. And it’s OK to let others praise you. Just realize that God is to be thanked.

Lust. "The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

"The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19:
Code:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, . . . Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God."
Envy. From the Catechism: "2538 The tenth commandment requires that envy be banished from the human heart. When the prophet Nathan wanted to spur King David to repentance, he told him the story about the poor man who had only one ewe lamb that he treated like his own daughter and the rich man who, despite the great number of his flocks, envied the poor man and ended by stealing his lamb. Envy can lead to the worst crimes. “Through the devil’s envy death entered the world”:

" We fight one another, and envy arms us against one another. . . . If everyone strives to unsettle the Body of Christ, where shall we end up? We are engaged in making Christ’s Body a corpse. . . . We declare ourselves members of one and the same organism, yet we devour one another like beasts."

Gluttony. “The excessive indulgence in food and drink. The moral deformity discernible in this vice lies in its defiance of the order postulated by reason, which prescribes necessity as the measure of indulgence in eating and drinking.”

So, be careful. As Catholics, we cannot force anyone to do anything but we must be very aware of what others are “inviting” or “urging” us to think or do. Knowing what the Church teaches is your best self-help. And it will guide you as far as what you should do.

Peace,
Ed
 
Words have been manipulated for the past 40 years in particular. The media is the primary culprit. Controversy is a meaningless word. On every subject, the word controversy tells me nothing. Every attempt is made to avoid saying this is right and this is wrong.

The one thing to keep in mind is that there cannot be two right answers. And whenever anyone says or you read “What might be right for you might be wrong for me,” please realize that this is moral relativism, meaning “who knows what the truth is?” The Catholic Church does.

Right now, “psychological well-being” consists of “if it doesn’t make you uncomfortable, it’s OK.” But what do we get in the outside world? Psychologists testifying in court that this or that sinful, immoral behavior is OK. And immorality is legislated.

Forget about “I’m OK, you’re OK.” Know, very clearly, what is right and what is wrong. Meditate on the Ten Commandments. Meditate on the 7 deadly sins.

Wrath. Go to the average internet forum and the common abnormal behavior is people getting angry to very angry at others.

“Like all of the deadly sins, anger (or wrath) is a potential rooted in the fallen nature of every person. Anger is deeply self-centered, impatient with the weaknesses of others and often driven by an aggrieved sense of entitlement rising up in response to real or imagined injury. It causes the breakdown of marriages, families, and friendships.”

Greed. Too many are so caught up in the question “Is it OK for a Catholic to be rich?” For most working-class people, having enough will do. There was a time when people were “content with what they had.” Sure, they would have liked more but it was not an all-consuming passion. Yes, if you have the drive and ambition, you can become very wealthy, but with this gift, don’t deny the poor. Domino’s Pizza founder, Tom Monaghan, a Catholic, said that he plans to be broke just before he dies.

From the Catechism: "2536 The tenth commandment forbids greed and the desire to amass earthly goods without limit. It forbids avarice arising from a passion for riches and their attendant power. It also forbids the desire to commit injustice by harming our neighbor in his temporal goods:
Code:
When the Law says, "You shall not covet," these words mean that we should banish our desires for whatever does not belong to us. Our thirst for another's goods is immense, infinite, never quenched. Thus it is written: "He who loves money never has money enough."
Sloth. “The Catechism describes sloth as a culpable lack of physical or spiritual effort that can actually refuse the joy that comes from God. The slothful person is lukewarm towards, perhaps even repelled by, divine goodness and spiritual practices (Catechism #1866, 2094, 2733). The loss of one’s spiritual moorings manifests itself in flight from God and apathy in the service of one’s neighbor.”

Pride. “A high or inordinate opinion of one’s own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.”

It’s OK to be proud of something you’ve worked hard at and succeeded in doing. And it’s OK to let others praise you. Just realize that God is to be thanked.

Lust. "The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

"The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19:
Code:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, . . . Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God."
Envy. From the Catechism: "2538 The tenth commandment requires that envy be banished from the human heart. When the prophet Nathan wanted to spur King David to repentance, he told him the story about the poor man who had only one ewe lamb that he treated like his own daughter and the rich man who, despite the great number of his flocks, envied the poor man and ended by stealing his lamb. Envy can lead to the worst crimes. “Through the devil’s envy death entered the world”:

" We fight one another, and envy arms us against one another. . . . If everyone strives to unsettle the Body of Christ, where shall we end up? We are engaged in making Christ’s Body a corpse. . . . We declare ourselves members of one and the same organism, yet we devour one another like beasts."

Gluttony. “The excessive indulgence in food and drink. The moral deformity discernible in this vice lies in its defiance of the order postulated by reason, which prescribes necessity as the measure of indulgence in eating and drinking.”

So, be careful. As Catholics, we cannot force anyone to do anything but we must be very aware of what others are “inviting” or “urging” us to think or do. Knowing what the Church teaches is your best self-help. And it will guide you as far as what you should do.

Peace,
Ed
I agree with you in so far as sometimes there are no known right answers and apathy creates the worse outcome.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating the lesser of two evils mind you but sometimes the right course of action is very very obscured.
 
Who’s standard of morality do we use? Which one is correct?

Though I wouldn’t agree that books on psychology should necessarily claim that anything is immoral, regardless of how many religions state so.
 
Well, the context of right and wrong and putting things in terms of counterproductive instead could be driving the choice of language. For example, someone mentioned avoiding confrontation. Ok, there is not being afraid to stand up for what’s right and there’s trying to convince someone of the validity of your viewpoint. Getting in a heated disagreement with someone could be right or wrong, not based on the validity of your viewpoint but on how it supports your objective. Are you communicating a line you refuse to cross, or trying to persuade them?

So, I think a good self help book puts things in terms of choices and understanding ramifications and consequences. If you set a firm boundary with someone in your life and they take offense, that risks alienating them. That’s a choice an individual has to make. A self help book can’t really tell an individual that alienating a person in your life is better than allowing them to exceed the boundaries you’re comfortable with, but a book can help with the realization that those are in fact choices you should rationally make.

I hope that makes some sense? It’s like the personality test which gives you a list of words and asks which one you prefer. Without context, I really can’t tell you. It depends on what I need to communicate to someone else. I think these books try, at some level, to make people aware that the actions they will choose to take make have negative consequences relative to the goals they are trying to achieve. Hence, they are counter-productive vice necessarily a moral right or wrong.
 
Has anyone noticed a tendency in various self-help books to avoid the use of the terms “right” and “wrong,” opting instead to use words like “unhealthy,” “counterproductive” or maybe even “destructive”? This might seem like an attempt to appear non-judgmental, but I’ve often found these books to make bold claims like, “There is nothing morally wrong with <insert behavior that virtually every religion over 100 years old has typically considered immoral>.” As if, by writing a self-help book, shrink or psychologist gains the authority to overrule all of the world’s religions on moral issues.

While I could see self-help-book writers wanting to avoid pigeonholing their audiences into one religious perspective, even atheists will generally claim to believe in some kind of morality.

I can’t help but wonder if the attempt to detach psychological well-being from morality might be, well, unhealthy, counterproductive, or maybe even destructive.
Just to put another slant on things:

A self-help book is exactly that. The author is not writing for the purpose of promoting a religious belief or theological reasoning in regard to matters of morality. Atheists do have sense of morality but disagree with us on many issues. If the author is not religious and not writing from a religious perspective, then there will be things that in their opinion are not morally wrong, and we can’t realistically expect them to say they are and express views that endorse our own beliefs if they do not share them.

However, irrespective of what any book says we are free to believe what we choose. Just because the author of a self-help book does not think something is morally wrong that does not mean we have to agree. In addition, I would say it depends on what they are saying there is nothing morally wrong with.
 
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